Hi everyone. Need some advice ! I mated my girl on the 28th october again on the 30th and 31st. She has been showing some very positavie signs of pregnancy, clingy,eating late in the evening,boobs growing and a few days ago some white/opaque stringy discharge and again this morning ! I know its a little early for this sign as i have read in my book "the book of the bitch" in there it says this should only show from day 35. She also at day 14 had a green discharge which was none smelling, my girl was well in her self,eating, drinking normaly,playing when she could be bothered. I took her to the vets who gave me a course of Synalox (10 days worth) the discharge cleared up and that was that. Today is her 28 day, the vets said they could do a scan from today so took her, i was there and the vet said nope cant see anything, then she said hold on i think there is something and she pointed 2 2 white lines then she decided to get a second opinion, so this other vet came in scanned her and said sorry no there is nothing there and not to be too hopefull as if she was pregnant she would show something from 28days. She said i could come back next week for a free scan to double check. What i dont understand is the white stringy discharge ? Can this be present in a phantom ? Should i start to let my self down? Or not to give up hope just yet ? Any Advice would be helpful. Thanks !

hi jenny even phantoms show all the signs :( , my friend had the same problem with her girl at the same times too ,she went for a scan at day 28 and could see the pups their were 6 maybe more ,so if i was you id go back to check ,friend didnt go to vets she had a mobile scanner and shes very good ,some vets arnt good at scanning some are! could be your girl might only have 1 or 2 and are hiding? its a hard 1 ,only time will tell or maybe find a very good scanner ....where abouts are you ,if in the eastmids i can give you scanners number ? good luck jenny i hope you find she is soon x

hi white lilly thanks for the advice. im thinking about the sheep scanner i got a number from this site for the north west. Its hard isnt it ? Gosh its trying to pick my self up ! I will though. I will wait untill next week then get her scanned again. thanks again. xxx

Hi Jenny,  I am in the same boat My bitch is coming up to 5 weeks I took her for a scan at 4 weeks and could not see any pups but she is showing all the signs of pregnancy!!!  To give you some hope earlier in the year I had one of my girls scanned at 4 and 6 weeks no pups but she went on to have wonderful pups!! My advice is go with your gut instincts and what your bitch is telling you good luck and keep us updated

Hi Westhamexcile. Thanks for the advice and support. I need to add that my vets i chose them because 1 of them is a specialist in my breed and i travell 45mins to see him,(been with them for years )he wasnt there yesterday he was ill, so i saw a vet i had never seen before, the way she was acting (a little nervous and requesting a second opinion ) has made me think she was new ? And the vet she called for was also seeing other patients and poped in between appoitments, so as i look back this morning i think maybe because she really didnt have time but was helping rushed through the scan because of lack of time ? Also daisy was not being very cooperative in staying still,shifting every few seconds. But like you said im going to try to stay positave, also when i explained to the vet all her signs including the white opaque discharge her reply was" it means nothing im concerned something could be brewing !"because of her discharge at 14 days which was treated and worked.  But my instinct still says yes she is pregnant. Thanks for your advice and i will update. xxx

If you do a search for scans you'll see quite a few similar postings recently.  Go back for the free scan next week, a breeder friend (I've said same in a few replies!!) has had bitches scanned at 4 weeks to be told there are no pups, then they have appeared on the 5 week scan. My bitch didn't show pups at 4 or 5 wks, but I treated her as though she was 'cause her body was telling me she was, sadly she didn't have pups. There are a few people on this site who have been told no pups at 4 and 5 weeks but gone on to have pups, as someone has said, you just have to go with your instinct. 
One of my bitches sometimes gets a white, opaque discharge which is down to colitis ... so not sure that this is a sign of pregnancy as well. I've not experienced it as being part and parcel of pregnancy but others may have.
Fingers crossed for puppies!!

Hi westhamexcile. I just thought id update you, ive rang kieth a sheep scaner in blackpool, hes coming to see us tomorrow ! I couldnt wait untill next week for a return trip to my vets, so i will let you know as soon as i know. xx

Keith is very good at what he does

Just to let you know kieth came round last night and scanned my girl. No babys ! xx

so sorry to hear this :( xx

so sorry  for you , time flys so wont be long before you can try again xx

Thanks everyone for the sympathy i really appreciate it. Im going to keep an eye on her up to due date as she was scaned on day 28 and day 30 and from what i have read and talked to others they like to surprise us ! I could go to the vets on weds to get my free scan as she will be day 35 then but im not going to there is only so many times i can take the "nope sorry nothing there ", what i cant get my head round is how good her body is  at acting pregnant, when you just think about what there bodys do, its amazing isnt it. xxx

yes it is :( ! good luck for next time tho! x

I don't want to build your hopes up but, I wouldn't despair just yet.
I had my bitch scanned, by someone with very good references, and she didn't show signs of anything. I was told 'No definately no pups'. Albeit she was acting differently and I felt she was pregnant because of how she was, clingy etc. Anyway lo and behold she produced 2 bitch puppies!!
So you see not all scans are accurate. I never bothered with a scan the second time round. I could just tell she was by the way she was acting!
Just be patient and time will tell :O)
Good luck
Anne

Ask you vet to do a Relaxin blood test at 35 days instead of the free scan.The result is simple either positive or negative and there is no room for operator error.
Having said that an experienced vet/scanner should be able to give a positive or negative from 25 days with 100% accuracy

As Anndee has said don't build your hopes up however I had my girl scanned at 4 weeks and nothing so I went back to training however at 7 weeks I looked at her and thought I'm not so sure and at training that night she wasn't quite herself and my trainer asked if I was sure she was not in whelp.  She ended up having one stunning bitch.

Will keep my fingers crossed for you.

Oh you are all brilliant ! Thamk you for your support, i am going to keep an eye on her right up to due date which would be 28th december 09 that is from her first mate and she had 3. It would be a lovely ending to the year as last year 19th december 08 my eldest dog (same breed) died and im convinced he waited for me and my son to come home from school before he left us,and my heart is permently broken with the loss. Thanks again everyone and i will keep you updated. xxx

Also i asked my vet for the blood test when we went for the scan last week (day 28) and i was told to wait untill this week at day 35 because she had 3 mates,the vets said i would get a defenate answer then.x

oh good luck jenny i do hope and pray you get a little boy xx

Hiya everyone, daisy would be 35 days today,after the 2 scans last week saying No Puppies,i decided not to go for my free scan at the vets this week, im keeping a close eye on her but i was wondering should i start to worm her from day 42 untill due date just in case ? Daisy is still very clingy,her boobs have turned light pink except for the front 2 which are still brown and the ones that have changed are Hugeeee ! shes eating a little more than usual but not much more,shes defenately mellowed. And is it "law" they put weight on from 5 weeks ? Thanks jenny. xxx

id say no its not law ,if only carrying 2/3 or just 1 pup and mum goes through morning sickness and doesnt eat much then no weight will be seen ,if she starts eatting more then weight gain will happen weather pregnant or not ,hope that make sense :)

Yeah makes sense thanks ! Bit like our selves with the weight ! Hehehe.

Hi Jenny38, my advice would be to go for the 2nd scan the vet has offered you if it's free of charge. At 4 weeks it's the fluid sacks that are picked up (not very easily), later on though the pups are much more defined - if you can arrange it for 5 1/2 wks they should be able to tell. It may well be that they say there are still no pups, this is what happened to me recently, and we went on not to have any pups. However, my girl was showing all the signs of being pregnant, so I carried on as if she were, including worming, and increasing her food intake, though not as much as if she was heavily pregnant - she filled out, but not a huge amount. But going for the 2nd vet scan you may be surprised to see lots of bouncing puppies, in which case you can plan for sure. It may be that there aren't any showing in which case you just carry on and follow what your girl's body is telling you. It is hugely disappointing to be told at 4 weeks and then again at 5 weeks there are no pups, but if it's free I'd go.

You know what Trialist im going to do just that. Im gonna book her in for next wed she will be exactly 6wks then from her first mate. Thanks. xx

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you both!

one more thing before i go wed ! My friend who has the same breed and has bred successfully for years has made me think ! Daisy was mated the 9th 11th and 12th day, which meant when i took her for her scan she was 28 days first mate 26 days second mate and 25 days 3rd mate, she says even with them other 2 mates the scan should have picked something up 2 tell us if she was pregnant from them mates . Is this correct ? xx

again it depends on how good the scaner is imo ,and if only having a small litter and whelps are high up its possible for them to be missed ....keeping everything crossed for you jenny :)

28 days is really early to pick up anything, less than that I should have thought very unlikely. I don't care how enthusiastically the vets say they'll definitely pick pups up at 28 days, the fact is, they don't always. A breeder friend has taken in her last 3 bitches at 28 days. Vet told her no pups. Returned the following week, oh miracles, there are puppies, where did they come from?!! As previous poster says, it also depends on where the pups are being carried. Just get yourself there for your free scan and take it from there :-)

Hiya everyone. Now i know im going for our scan tomorrow but yesterday i decided to get my stethascope out to see if i could hear any heart beats, now ive read somewhere on here they sound like "ticking clocks" well ive not heard that sound butttt ive heard what can only be described as a "poping sound " a bit like bubbles bursting ? I also can hear her waters inside squishing about so i know this is different to the sound ive just explained. Could this be heartbeats my son who is 11 can also hear this. OMG I SOUND SO STUPID ! !

are you sure the water swishing around sound is not her guts working?

Hopefully by today you will have been for your 2nd scan. I don't understand how any doctor/vet can determine anything using a stethoscope ... I've listened through one and could just hear all sorts of weird and wonderful noises, how anyone interprets them is beyond me! :-)

jenny did you get the scan done?

Hi white lilly, no i had to cancel as i had picked up a bug so was in bed for last few days, rearranged for monday evening ! But im scared ! I know how devestated i will be if its comfirmed without out a doubt that she is not having babys.  I do know that if she isnt she is defenately having a phantom as she looks pregnant and acting pregnant. But i have areally odd question to ask , ok here goes ! Daisys vulva has always been dark brown but since her body has started to change the colour of her vulva has also, its gone very very light brown with a hint of grey to this. Do you know what this could be ? Is it another sign of pregnancy ? Told you it was stupid ! Ive looked in "the book of the bitch " and all my other books and i can not find the answer to this and its driving me crazy ! xxx

you not stupid :) whats happening is cus you dont know fro sure your looking so closely to see the slightst change ,when id check the dogs vulvas i did it to make sure no discharge the only thing i can think of was as it softend it went little lighter in colour ,so more lighter pink ,sorry dont think thats helped any ....how far would she be now?

Hiya white lilly daisy is 46 days today so we are getting quite close now. I tell u what else she keeps doing , wherever she has been sat be it settee, rug, her bed, our bed when she gets up she sniffs where where she has been sat and licks the area, now ive checked her "flower " i cant see anything and she hasnt licked her self clean before i get there as she cant do that due to her breed, so that is driving me silly as welll all i know is she never did that before only when in season .

Hiya to everyone who has given me advice. I did not take my girl to the vets as last night i finally admited that she is not pregnant and is having a phantom. And i dont need the vet to tell me this. She would have been coming up to 7wks tuesday and even though from the days she was mated she was showing signs of pregnancy i.e sleeping more,eating less,sickness,discharge, boobs swelling ,back 2 boobs changing from brown to pink, then eating more,hardness in stomach area, rounding out very very very clingy,moody,put on 8lbs in last few weeks, and if you could see the photos taken last night when she is sat down she does indeed look very pregnant or lying down but when i took the overhead picture i was shocked she looked slightly rounder not as much as when she was sat or lying so i talked to a friend and she said that my beautiful girl should be packing the weight on now at this stage and her vulva shoul be getting bigger which isnt, it looks slightly bigger 1 day then the next she looks normal and something inside of me is telling me to "wake up" so i have. I cried my eyes out last night when the kids went to bed and hubby upstairs watching football, i just couldnt stop for over 2 hrs ! And i know there is a next time but im not sure if i can go through all this again . Ive rung all the people who was on my waiting list and explained they where wonderful and 3 of the couples have said if they have 2 wait 2 yrs they will which i was gobsmaked at . But the biggest pain is for myself i sooooo want 1 of her daughters that is the only reason we wanted her to be mated for but we new chances where we would get more than 1 so thankfully people have seen me and my dogs and started giving me there numbers to call if we did ever consider to mate her. I dont know what else to say to you who is reading this so im gonna go jump in the bath and cry some more ! Please p[lease let this hurt go please. xxxx

aww thats awful, im so disappointed for you.... chin up chicken, there is next time.... i know how it feels, i was exactly the same.

hugs xx

Awww jenny im sooo sorry ,have a good cry and get it out ....enjoy xmas with your girl and family and try next time ,just because she missed this time dont mean she will next hun (((hugs))) xx

Hiya . Ok  im in work (overnight with homeless 16-25yr olds and just got them all to bed !) i need a couple of questions answered before i give up completly. Why if my girl is having a phantom can i feel something in her stomach ? Ive tried to make out the shape but i cant. Also why does she look completly and amazingly heavily pregnant when sat down or lying down ? when she is stood up only looks slightly round ? Why is my boy getting quite interested again in her "flower " and every chance he gets try to lick her? Can he sense something ? Its quite funny watching him as he trys to do it when she is drinking and she now goes over to the drinking bowl lifts her head to check where he is and then turns her bum away from him so he cant surprise her and so she can see exactly where he is at all times! She only did this when she first came in heat and did not want him near her. She would be 7 wks today from her first mate and if she was having a phantom would she have started producing milk before now?Also she is not nesting at the moment  and hasnt done so far ,shes not trying to pinch teddys toys anything, not taking them to her bed , now i know that if she was then it probably would start next week (8th week) so my final question is If they are having a phantom dothey naturally follow the pregnancy time line ? Ive not talked about this with my family as theywhere all so worried about me the other night. But if i have not had her scanned from the 2nd and 3rd mate then i can not be a 100% certain she isnt, can i ? So im going to cling on by my finger nails and see what happens from now todue date. Do you think im right in doing this ?

right from what your sayin sounds like she could well be !! my boy wouldnt leave this girl alone ,he kept sniffing and licking at her bits and if she is only 7weeks from what you say she looks like is still normal for a bitch in whelp ,you really should have gone for that free scan !!!! could you still not go?
you are going to drive yourself insaine :( xx

Oh yes i can still go but ive been put off by them, the coldness and matter of fact  way they spoke to me was awful no regards for me or her. I have everything ready for her, got my work colleages on stand by for me , booked time off work. Friend coming to help me if needed. Also i know that even if i did go for the scan and they said again nope, i would not believe them untill past her due date . But you are right i should go. Ok white lilly you did it im going to ring in the morning and book for tomorrow night (hubby works all day and i dont drive ) because if i dont and anything should go wrong if she is pregnant then i would never be able to live with my self. I bet its driving you mad also ! Ok i will know by 7pm tomorrow . xxxx

i can just feel the pain in your thread hun and you need to know  for your sake!!! and yes incase she goes over ,make sure you go i need to know too ;) xx

i no what you are going through hun, last year i mated my female and in my heart i was convinced she was in welp but sadly she wasnt, i was gutted, we mated her again almost 3 weeks ago  and its driving me crazy, is she or isnt she in welp? im too scared to get Keith out as it could ruin my xmas, think i will wait until in between xmas and new year, like you i just want a puppy to keep from her, oh i have to say we mated her in Germany and you are allowed just 1 mating, she was spot on the dog was crazy for her and he will only mate if they are ready, please keep your fingers crossed for us x and good luck with your girl.

The first miss is the worst. I have a bitch I am trying to get in whelp and not suceeding very well :( the first time, like you I got my hopes up, convinced myself she was pregnant, ignoring the little voice in the back of my mind that was saying, shes not. She was having a very convincing phantom. The second time oddly enough was not so bad because I refused to let myself get too hopeful. I started off saying, no shes not, so when she wasn't, I was not suprised. After having litters in the past with no problems, these misses are hard to take. There are plenty of people on here who have had the same thoughts as you and felt the same feelings, including the crushing disappointment so we know how you are feeling.

Keep your chin up :)

We have never had a problem before with any of the females but this little minx, we have done all we can antibiotics, pre mate test,canine herpes, so now we wait, im like you i refuse to convince myself she is this time, im more on the pesimistic side. if not this time we will investigate, we know a expert vet in Germany, she is a small petite female and very very toned tummy, but it does feel a little saggier at the moment, there i go again getting hopes up.

hi everyone , ok , i never made the appoitment, im scared. Why am i scared ? Because i ave have spent years thinking about this learning, reading, watching ,listening, building up a respectable waiting list, and in the split of 2mins its all taken away, i know i sound selfish so i rang my vet today and explained how i was feeling and he was nice he still trying to get me down there but did ask when her due date was and gave me his mobile emergency number to ring if anything started and from now to due date ring him everyweek with an update so thats what im going to do, so white lillly we sit and wait, hehe, her due date is 1/2nd jan thats 62/63 days. What im watching for now is this mucous plug if i see that then she has to be right ? And that should come anytime now right ? Her boobs are hanging slightly lower tonight the back two. Oh i am sooo angry with myself im an idiot. And annastasia i will be thinking about you and checking your progress i hope you get your dream and you know i and everyone else know what you are going through. So im sorry but its going to be a case of watch this space,please all of you stick with me, i really do need you all now ! xxx

jenny you do what feels right for you hun ((hugs)) my girls didnt loose mucus plug till the last week so you might see it from xmas day onwards? or she may be to clean to see it and not see any till she starts to have them ,i will be checking to see how thing go for you both and i wish you all the luck in the world x

Thanks white lilly you have been an angel through this for me. ive ordered a couple more books from amazon today so reading them will help take my mind of things. ( dog psychology and doglapedia.)  But will defenately be up dating for you all. xxx

Wish you all the luck in the world Jenny, this is so stressful, her mother is so fertile. im keeping my fingers crossed for you Jenny. x out of all my females only one has lost the mucus plug.

Angels i need advice again ! i can feel her tummy is firm and rounder than normal there feels something in there but how can you tell if its a pup and not her pipework ? Sorry if its a stupied question but when researching in my books and on internet i cant seem to get the answer it just says "week 7 should be able to feel pups!" xxx