My lovely WSS pup has just made up 5 months, has a lively gait, a cheeky nature, very bright and quick to learn, loves attention, looks good (to me at least!) and I'm going to take him along to local ringcraft sessions to get us started. It's me that needs to learn at least as much as the new pup does. I've got a million and five questions, but in the meantime: is it worth trying the Manchester champ show for experience (looking at last year's entries it's a relatively small class of 6-8 for MPD/PD) or will I just embarrass us all, is it better just to go for MPD rather than PD given his age and development against others, is it worth entering stakes...should I forget the champ shows and just do the open shows till he is a bit older?

I would enter as entries are closing soon, it gives you nearly two months to practise at Ringcraft and you should be able to enter some Open shows (where entries haven't closed) for before the Manchester one.

I think that when both you and your dog are new to showing it can be about finding a comfortable environment for you both to start in.

This could be champ or open shows.  Some halls and venues are nicer than others and at that time of year the car park conditions and the venue temperature can have a lot to do with it too!!

My pup would have been about the same age as yours approaching Manchester but I was warned not to make this one of my first shows.  I can see why, and I must confess that when I did go the following year, I didn't like it much.  Nothing I can really put my finger on but it's loud, busy and somehow seemed more competitive than usual.  Perhaps because it's good practise for Crufts? 

Do ask around and see what other people think.  For my money I'd stick to local shows (be they Champ or Open) as it just makes it all a little less stressful.  Incidentally WELKS in April is a lovely Champ show - it's outside, on grass, is well laid out and makes a great introduction - it was my first Champ Show so perhaps I'm biased!!

I would say go with what ever you feel comfortable with, I would enter manchester so that later on you can choose if you go or not.
Which class, I can't honestly say for your pup but for mine I'd only go in MPD and maybe a puppy stakes class.

It might worth you visiting LKA at the NEC over the weekend of 12th/13th December (obviously you wont be able to bring your pup) But this would give you a feel of a busy/noisey champ show. (pardon my ignorance if you have already been to one)

:) best of luck with your little 'un :)

thanks so much for your encouragement, Gemma, I have been to one champ show through the breed club just over a year ago with my older dog, which was an eye opener from the perspective of the crowd, I am quite sure :-). I don't think I will be able to make LKA much as I would love to, but will try hard!

Thanks for that insight dogs a babe--I do recall hearing some muttering from people in the breed club last year about this show and that might explain the smaller classes. Part of the rationale was just that for once it is a venue that is comparatively speaking on the doorstep and Bean will be just into the age group then, neither of which I would class as great reasons...hence my gratitude for the tips from all of you!

If it is on the doorstep then I would definitely go.

The side halls can be cold and noisy, main hall isn't bad, but then the pluses are reasonably priced refreshments, nice shop with great ice cream, cakes and pastries.

It is easy to take the dog for a walk outside, so all in all it is a venue I like.

> If it is on the doorstep then I would definitely go.
>
> The side halls can be cold and noisy, main hall isn't bad, but then the pluses are reasonably priced refreshments, nice shop with great ice cream, cakes and pastries.
>
> It is easy to take the dog for a walk outside, so all in all it is a venue I like.

Ditto.  We haven't been to Manchester before, this year will be first time for us, however we have been to other champ show at the same place and thought it was OK.. If it's on the doorstep it's worth going to and use the time before to practise and perhaps get an Open show too.  How about Market Harborough there is just about time to enter and a WSS class too http://www.fossedata.co.uk/entry.asp?ref=MARK_JAN_10 although no puppy class, but it would be a practise run

Even if there is no puppy class they will choose best puppy from the highest placed puppy.

I'm afraid I am just a wimp, Jaspersmum--Market Harborough is a 340 mile round trip for us so I don't think we will do this one...I will see what Open Shows are a little closer to home first. I can just picture the raised eyebrows on the forum...340 miles is probably an average day out for lots of you!

> 340 miles is probably an average day out for lots of you!

You bet!

The thing about advising you which shows to enter is..... it all depends on your judges.
It is Sod's Law that the show you miss one week
was judged by a chap who sees your dog a week later
and
tells you that he's never seen one so good :-)

before that happens I need lots of practice so that the judge actually looks at the dog and is not transfixed by the sight of the most idiotic handler ever to disgrace a ring!

I took a friend from an entirely different breed ( Lhasas)  to a Cavalier breed show on sunday.  The Lhasa folk tend to 'assemble' theirs, every hair in place, and plonk them down like statues.

She commented how awful Cavalier handlers were, including the big names, as the judge has to wait for a glimpse of the dog standing still !!
The Cavs jiggle and wag and I'll admit it's quite frustrating to watch from the ringside.
The early stages of showing your dog with all the nerves and feelings of looking a dork.....do pass, and before you know it you will look cool, calm and every inch a winner.
If you've got a good dog, a good judge will find him/her.

Hang on in there, it's fun when you're not scared :-)

> Hang on in there, it's fun when you're not scared

I must be weird then lol.... I like the scared feeling you get just before you go in the ring, the stomach churning adrenalin rush type feeling (does that even make sense lol)

I would do that sort of mileage (well the car and hubby do) for a champ show but for an Open show 100 mile round trip is the usual maximum except for club shows and the Nordic which is a special Open show for all the Spitz types.
.

> The early stages of showing your dog with all the nerves and feelings of looking a dork.....do pass, and before you know it you will look cool, calm and every inch a winner.
>

I keep waiting on this and am nearly three years in- I almost need a sick bowl. Someone suggested a swift vodka but I am always driving so that's out.

I wouldn't worry too much there will be other people feeling as nervous as you and if it's a good judge they will be so intent on looking at the dog they won't notice- I reassure myself of this at each show- Good luck

thank you everybody, I will persevere and have ordered books for bedtime reading, requested schedules/booking forms for a few more local open shows early next year with the hope of building up some practice and will book for Manchester on the off chance that my knees hold me up on the day! My pup's breeder will be there with his choice of that litter too...definitely will be taking something to mop my brow! :-)

340 mile round trip at a push for champ shows for me, open shows usually 120 mile round trip tops, but then saying that i did make a extra special effort and do a 300 mile round trip last weekend for a special judge, and even though we didnt get BOB or Even RBOB with either of the dogs we was placed above a dog on 1 ticket and beaten by a bitch on 2 tickets, i was more than happy with that. If it was just me and 1 dog i think i would probally do more miles but having 2 young children that get dragged to every show and 3 dogs i have to put a limit on how far we will go poor kids dont like getting up at 5-6am at the best of times.

We only started a little over a year ago and promised ourselves that we were not going to travel far.... that's why we are going to 222 mile round trip this weekend I guess!!!! But it is a champ show and the puppy has only just turned 6 months so we only have this one and LKA to try to qualify him so made an exception.

This will be stating the bleeding obvious, but it's starting to sink in for the first time the care you all take to plan your strategy. I feel like I've just arrived from another planet...

I think the distance you are willing travel also depends on where you live. I wish I could find any show within an hours drive. I have to travel 1hour 40mins to a venue that has open shows regularly. One or two a year more locally.

Never drove much at all before I started showing so it has been a bit of a shock, OH hates shows and my teenager daughter is too young to drive.

My new pup is 6 months in January so I will be filling the petrol tank a few times lol.

We are lucky living in the Midlands.  60 to 90 minutes gets us to Stafford, Malvern and Coventry all of which have regular shows.  Newark isn't too bad but I hated the drive.  I don't like driving particularly but with the aid of a Sat Nav, I'm now taking on the driving to a good few of the shows which I wouldn't of thought I'd ever do. I'm lucky that OH doesn't mind driving, so he goes on the odd longer trip like this weekend.  Teenage daughter fab company! She goes to sleep when we leave home and the same on the return trip!!!!

Teenage daughter fab company! She goes to sleep when we leave home and the same on the return trip!!!!

LOL, mine's exactly the same! But at least she's good help at the shows. :)

> the care you all take to plan your strategy

You know when you're 'in the loop' when you decide on shows, not by their proximity but by their judge.

> We are lucky living in the Midlands

Snap....you do feel rather lucky especially when you meet up with people that have traveled a couple of hundred miles in vile weather.

My OH does all the driving and he too falls asleep (not whilst driving I hasten to add) usually on a spare bench or on a chair ringside actually he`ll sleep any where he can find lol.

We did make a rule that we wouldn`t travel any further than an hour and a half drive to a show venue but that soon went out the window when he found out about Darlington show and the thought of "real" fish and chips from Yorkshire....Typical bloke....Food and sleep and he`s happy lol :)

> You know when you're 'in the loop' when you decide on shows, not by their proximity but by their judge.

Not there yet then - we're still learning who to go under and when it's not worth bothering even if they were next door!

> Not there yet then - we're still learning who to go under and when it's not worth bothering even if they were next door!

Yep same here, but have a couple in my little black book already lol:)

Lucky you :-)! I am a single parent with two boys aged 18 and 21 who are appalled that I have inflicted three dogs on them, let alone expect them to share any interest in showing. If I open my mouth about the dogs all I get is a chorus of "Boring!" So I feel like a pariah. I live about 40 miles north of Manchester, so Blackpool, Manchester and Leeds are the 'backyard' and everything else seems far to get to--not in distance necessarily, but anyone used to struggling to find the north west passage across the Pennines will know that the longest 40 miles in the country lies between our house and Wakefield!

Lol- I am on the other side of the Pennines in Holmfirth where Last of the Summer Wine is filmed.
Southward I travel to Birmingham, Coventry and Newark etc
Northwards - I go as far as Edinburgh and Glasgow
I don't do the shows in the South of England.
I am adding Belfast this year as a foot passenger from Stranraer and have never done the Welsh shows yet
If I ever get a truly magnificent dog I would try to do them all- Can't think how it would be possible but long for the day it's worth considering

that's pretty much exactly what I had mapped out last night looking at the calendar, with the exception of Belfast.

> is it better just to go for MPD rather than PD given his age and development against others

I've just learned the hard way that it's worth entering both.  My 6 month old cocker puppy still looks immature so I only entered the Minor Puppy class, he missed out on qualifying today but it turned out the Puppy class had a much lower entry and we might of got in, luck of the draw I guess but if you're not bothered about going for Best Puppy, go for both...