I don't know what to do about this. A lady that comes to my dog club and is a GSD enthusiast like me has told me about a puppy that has been bought by 3 young men who rent a unit to be a guard dog, she works in the unit next door. They have a large cage, about 10ft X 8ft set up within the 'warehouse'. This poor pup, who is now 14 weeks old has lived there since they got it. It doesn't get out for socialising or exercise, and is in this cage even when they are there. They don't even give it any bedding anymore because it rips it up (through sheer boredom bless it), and with the weather getting colder it doesn't even have something warm to curl up in. So poor pup is spending it's life so far in this unit and is probably in the dark 13 hours a day and probably more at weekends. It does have some toys (big deal) but my heart bleeds for this baby.

She is trying to stay 'onside' with them, and encourage them to take the dog home with them etc, but I just don't think this should be allowed to continue. I printed off some information from the Animal Welfare Act for her to give them to show that they could be prosecuted for animal cruelty (especially mental cruelty), but I can understand that she doesn't want to antagonise them, because she can at least at the moment see the pup is physically OK.

If she can't get them to take this pup home, I can't stand by and do nothing. My problem is what? I am worried that the RSPCA will do nothing but advise giving the poor thing a bed. I don't have any faith in the RSPCA actually applying the terms of the Animal Welfare Act.

Any suggestions anyone, this is haunting me day and night.

The Animal Welfare Act states that the dog has to be allowed to behave normally.  So that would be the way I would want them prosecuted. I thought the local authority had to enforce this?

My work is related to large livestock, and all our prosecutions are actioned by the LA.

Poor pup will end up being a wreck from lack of socialisation.  Treatment at this age has lasting affects.

This is totally unacceptable! I don't understand why, if they fear for the security of their property, that they don't get a CCTV camera or use smartwater? I can imagine that the breeder that they bought the pup from was not the best GSD breeder in the world, was the pup cheap? perhaps they thought it would be cheaper to get a dog than a proper security system for there warehouse? if this is a case perhaps your friend can convince them to buy a less expensive alarm system instead? you might then have the problem of them dumping the pup rather than taking it home though :S

This is such a tricky situation. You say that they rent out the unit? perhaps the owner of the property has something to say about animals being on site, maybe your friend should alert them to the fact that they may, in the future, have a rather large aggressive dog in residence. I am sure that the site owner will not be too chuffed about this.

I would start by contacting the local dog warden.  They should be able to advise on an appropriate course of action and visit the premises to assess the situation.

I thought that a dog that was used for guarding had to have a handler with it at all times whilst it was doing it's guarding duties. I may be wrong on this but thought the law was changed a good few years back (70s or 80s?) when there were several incidents of children being mauled by guard dogs that were left to guard premises where owners were not present.

If the sole intention for this poor dog is for it to guard the premises then I would have thought leaving it there unattended would be against the law - let alone any moral laws :-(

Poor mite and shame on the breeder who sold to such a home!

I would buy them a motion sensor kit which sets off a barking noise and ask them if we could swap!

I would be wary myself of approaching them to give them a piece of my mind. Perhaps stereotyping but I would be rather anxious about the kind of personality who thinks this is a reasonable life for any living creature.

Poor baby, even if they want a guard dog what use is a dog thats crated they just rob the place around it so its pointless, thats what i would be saying to them

as long as the pup is being fed and has water the rspca will do nothing. You can quote the welfare till you are blue in the face but will still do nothing. I had the same prob will two ebt being kept in cages in the dark in a shed 23 hours out of 24 and tried everything but nothing ever came of it and rspca did nothing.

> as long as the pup is being fed and has water the rspca will do nothing. You can quote the welfare till you are blue in the face but will still do nothing. I had the same prob will two ebt being kept in cages in the dark in a shed 23 hours out of 24 and tried everything but nothing ever came of it and rspca did nothing.

Are those EBT's still in that shed? Poor things,that is disgusting.
I agree that the GSD pup is not going to be a deterrent at all in a cage and if its not in a cage its in danger itself if someone breaks in.A friend told me a horrific story of a GSD puppy that was bought as a guard dog and kept overnight(loose) in a warehouse.Some burglars broke in and although they could have just ignored the puppy(it was only 12 weeks old)-and it was a friendly thing-they beat it to death.

They are no longer in the shed as the roof blew off. The RSPCA did attend but were fobbed off with a story that they were building a run etc etc etc.
For about 2 weeks after the RSPCA had attended the dog was allowed out of the shed and penned in which although not perfect was better than before. The poor old man was so used to being caged he didnt know what to do and just hid in the old wardrobe they had in there.
The RSPCA were due to go back in two weeks so that was probably why he was allowed out. After 2 weeks he was put back in the cage in the shed and the bitch was taken indoors. After the shed roof came off both dogs disapeared but I have seen them in the garden taking photos of the bitch and making her stand and pose for them. I think the dogs have now been caged indoors as can see the top of a cage from a back bedroom window, also they have a brick shed outside that was an outside toilet, no windows and about 6ft by 3ft and I have seen them showing someone something that was inside but couldnt see what it was.
They also had a rottie pup outside which has also disappeared so can only hope that these dogs are better off but unfortunatly dont think they will be.

Thanks everyone so far.

In the paperwork I gave her I did suggest that they would be better off with a good security system, and I did also mention the fact that dogs trained to guard should have a handler with them, which is why you no longer see guard dogs roaming loose (I was guessing this). If anyone can point me to legislation that this is actually the case, please, please do.

I also suggested  that the lease may not allow for animals and that they could lose the lease on their unit. Apparently, the landlord of the units is a horrible man as well, so I don't know how that would go - but I would certainly give it a try. I also pointed out that if the dog is in the cage all the time it can't guard anything and if it is out of the cage it will certainly wreak havoc and destroy the materials that are there out of boredom. I don't know what they have to guard anyway, they are kitchen fitters of all things. I just think that this is some really stupid macho idea they've come up with without thinking it through. The thing is that the lady who told me about it is trying to stay on their good side, and I'm not convinced she will give my paperwork to them. She might just drop bits of it into conversation. They are not particularly 'nice' chaps, and of a type who she thinks could turn nasty.

Aren't people just horrific. Kizzistaff that is so sad, and the poor pup that was killed how despicable. I despair of the human race sometimes.

There is a concern over what they may do with the pup if they cannot keep it - dump it? I will go with trying to persuade them it's a bad idea for a little while, just so if they do change their minds we can get the pup given to us - but I am not holding out a lot of hope.  How stupid are they to have had this idea anyway?

They tell her that they paid a lot of money for the pup which is from 'police' lines. However, they told her that they were kept in a barn, so it's possible it's a dodgy breeder who may not care. What breeder would have sold to three lads in their 20's who were clubbing together to buy a dog ?

I did wonder about the dog warden. At one time Robert Alleyne was a dog warden not a million miles away, and I know that he will step outside his area to help, as he helped me once before. However, I doubt he holds that role any more. I will need to find out who the dog warden is, again, it can really depend if they are any good or not.

I havent' entirely ruled out the purchase of a good pair of bolt cutters........and no I'm not joking, if only to allow me to sleep properly at night and not have this all running through my head all the time. Alternatively, does anyone have an old RSPCA inspectors uniform in their loft anywhere?

If anyone has any more ideas, or can find any more legislation that might help, I would be extremely grateful.

I did also mention the fact that dogs trained to guard should have a handler with them, which is why you no longer see guard dogs roaming loose (I was guessing this). If anyone can point me to legislation that this is actually the case, please, please do.

Here is inof on the Guard Dogs Act 1975 and it has a link to it (i think its still inforce) but it says that if ther is no handler the dog must be contained so it cant roam around so i dont know if it will be usefull to you.
http://www.endangereddogs.com/DogLaw_GuardDogs.htm

If you dont think your firend will give them your papers you could post it to them, but they may think she posted it.

My friend had a nabour who kept a border collie in a tiny garden with no food water or shelter all year, they called the dog warden and the RSPCA a few time and they only gave them suggestions and warnings, in the end they went on holliday and took the dog with them but it never came back, poor dogs. Its sad that people get dogs just to shut them away and think it will magicaly keep away thieves and that its somehow ok on the dog.

Good Luck

Im sorry I would break the dog out I could not except this at all it makes me cold thinking about it.
Thats totally impractice and wrong advice but im glad Im not in,you area or I would end up in clink!! try RSPCA.

Please do not attempt to free the dog yourself - end of the day it's not worth getting a criminal record over this.

I would try the RSPCA - the worst that will happen is that they will do nothing and the lads will suspect you of calling them and hold a grudge - but not half as much of a grudge as they will if you break in !

China Blue
Have sent you a PM

Mbro

Jo
Yes I was thinking today of getting the address posting them. And also perhaps pointing out that they have to display the Guard Dog sign, and then perhaps the landlord would tell them that they can't have a dog there, but I don't know whether that is actually the case.  Alternatively, I was thinking of firstly reporting them for NOT displaying the Guard Dog Sign, and getting the police to go round there. So much is going round in my head at the moment, I am hoping for some real inspiration. Yes, the problem is that whatever I do, my friend is more than likely to be considered to be implicated in this, whatever I do.

I need to find out who the dog warden is, and talk to them and get a feel for how they would implement the Animal Welfare Act. Possibly find out who the landlord is and ask if the units allow dogs to be housed there permanently etc.

Whistler - Believe me, it hasn't been dismissed yet.

DerbyMerc - I don't know whether it maybe would be worth getting a criminal record for. Then think of the publicity I could get for this dog. I just don't think I can stand idly by and let this happen. It is going to be minus 3 tonight, and this PUPPY is in a warehouse unit, with no bedding to sleep on. It must be spending 13 hours alone in the dark, and then isn't even free when they are at the warehouse. How can I live with myself if I do nothing? But I won't rush into anything (well at least I hope I won't but I can't guarantee it).

I would accidentily wander onto the property and accidentily carry the puppy away

That puppy will be seriously ruined if it is not removed from that situation as soon as possible, the most important time for a puppy is between 6 weeks and 14 weeks and to be left issolated in this situation  is wicked.

Can I suggest you contact the Council Environmental Health Department they are responsible for licensing

To contact http://www.info4security.com/story.asp?storycode=1014539

Who maybe able to advise you and agree on how inappropiate the situation is for the puppy and how to change it.

The Council Business Rates section maybe able to advise you who the legal owner of the property is - worth contacting.

Get someone to take a photo on phone camera and send to the local media - get the media involved they are very good and through public sympathy for the plight of the puppy the owners may not be able to handle the critical comments and may return or rehome the puppy.

Contact Jayne Shenstone of GSD Rescue UK - she will I am sure give the issue publicity.

The sooner the puppy is out of that situation the better.

Stupid people they have not got a clue, do they think that buying a puppy and placing it in that situation is likely to make it a good guard dog? 

   

Why not suggest that all the companies on the estate join forces and together hire a proper security dog and handler that can protect all the companies in the same area by patroling the estate during the night and weekends. This would be far more efficient and the poor puppy could be released from its miserable existence.

http://www.sdhservices.co.uk/?gclid=CICR6Jrms54CFVqX2Aodpz9nvQ

> I would accidentily wander onto the property and accidentily carry the puppy away

Totally in agreement here.

this post just breaks my heart :( its not right !!! you carnt train a dog this way

> its not right !!! you carnt train a dog this way <IMG class=qButton title="Quote selected text" alt="Quote selected text" src="/images/mi_quote.gif">

Well they are not training it are they?! Do they realise that to have a 'guard dog' or any kind of working dog, it needs training!! Locking it into a cage is a) defeating the object and b)not teaching it the job they bought it for so a complete waste of time them having it.

I dont really have any suggestions other than whats been said. I wonder if the woman could find out where the pup came from and contact the breeders as another avenue to explore ? (i use the word breeder loosely owing to the fact any good breeder would not have contemplated selling them this dog!!!)

Makes me livid when i hear stories like this

Well they are not training it are they?!

no freds mum ....but some ppl think cageing a pup and not doing anything with it will make it agresive and thats what their after for the lockup? " a guard dog " so to them its their way of training ...thats what i meant x

Perhaps another approach is to somehow subtly inform the 'owners' that a dog needs to have at least some attachment to an owner and their property before they will guard.  This would mean they'd have to build up a relationship via good husbandry  - feeding, watering, bedding, training and interacting with the pup.
Don't kow how you could do this though - the owner sounds like a complete thug.