ive got 2 male neutered english springer spaniels - both rescues - chip is 7 years old and mickey is 12. i got mickey about 5 years ago now. within the first 24hours of getting him he had pinned chip down by his neck  - no messing, just i'm boss. within a few weeks/couple of months despite no fights it was clear that actually chip was the boss - i put this down to mickey still having a bit of testosterone at first as he'd only just been castrated at the rspca - but that after a couple of months once this subsided chip took over the leadership role - they have then lived happily together until a couple of years ago when the fighting began - incidently prior to this starting chip was attacked by a jack russel - he's always been super submissive to other dogs due to rubbish first owners and poor socialisation/virtually none at all infact - but because this jrt wouldnt stop going for him he eventually fought back and i think this has pushed him over the edge so to speak. the fights have been very intermittent over the last couple of years and at first it was just chip going for mickey who wouldnt fight back so it would end without much intervention but after the 3rd or 4th incident mickey started to fight back to defend himself (who can blame him!)- but when you pull chip off him he wont try and carry it on. the fights happen anytime and not for any particular obvious cause except that im always there - they have never fought when alone or with just my husband - a few times when we have both been around but mainly when its just me. i am however the person who has done all the training classes with chip since we've had him and in classes is fab we do agility and heelwork to music etc but out of class and at home he does listen to my husband more - figure that out - i do the work - husband gets the respect! lol! anyway - we have prevented many fights as you can often tell when chip is going to start on mickey - his ears change position and he gets a more intense look - usually just telling mickey to get in his bed - or distracting chip by opening the back door prevents it going further than a look. but - this week i got bitten - i was sat on the floor by chip, mickey came round behind me and chip launched - i shot my arm out to grab chips collar to stop him getting to mickey as trying to separate them once they have started isnt easy but of course that put my arm right in the way of his mouth - oops! - anyway 5 days later they have had another fight which resulted in chip breaking a tooth - that was yesterday and today i am sat here with a snoozy chip back from the vets having had the remains of the tooth out under GA. anyway - the ocassional minor fight with no one or no dog hurt is one thing but 2 in a week with me and a dog injured is quite another - i am worried they are getting more frequent and i dont want either dog to get hurt and i hate that poor mickey is 12 and really doesnt need to be bothered with this at his age - he has plently of oap related things wrong with him too its just not fair on him - but after a fight they are the best of friends and can barely be separated at all - mickey and i had to stay with chip right up to sedation and ready for when he woke up as he goes frantic otherwise. and chip is the sweetest dog really - you can do anything to him - so my bite was definately not aimed for me - not in a million years. the other thing is mickey is going a bit senile now so he's a bit rubbish at reading chips body language and also displays some slightly odd behaviours at times and im not sure if this is why chip is more on edge - he does grumble and growl a lot too due to his djd and spinal spondylosis so maybe chip thinks he is threatening his authority? or that i need protecting? (i cant increase mickeys pain relief as his liver and kidneys are on their way out before someone suggests that to stop the growling - its a fine balancing act with meds at the mo) anyway - enough of my ramblings - anyone got any pearls of wisdom - i have asked my vet for a referral to a behaviourist anyway.

Hi Merlyn26,
Sorry to read that your boys are scrapping and by the sounds of it getting pretty bad...I can see how easily the last fight started with you sat on the floor and older boy mooching over and Cody flying for him must of been well scary ! Sounds like he's trying to control things a bit there.
Can't really offer advise sorry it will be very interesting when your behaviourist comes for a visit. My reckoning of is Chip is going for Mickey is due to his ill health and his advancing old age and drugged up state, dogs have a 6th sense I feel for picking up when something is not right and sadly in the laws of nature sometimes feel it needs putting out of its misery, he does love his mate mickey as the attack stops very soon as you mentioned after the rush of aggression all is calm but for a split second Cody's primal mind takes over? Hay I'm only guessing but I think the only way for you & dogs to be safe is to muzzle them I'm afraid it will be sad to keep them apart with baby gates?  If it does kick off sudden no one is going to get hurt with Cody is a muzzle? You might find with muzzling him calms him down as they know they can't grab hold and use their teeth anyway? So he might just growl at him to tell him to clear off?

Agree with magica that it is highly likely the older dogs illness (seen as weakness), and it's what animals do.

Sadly, I'm not experienced enough to give meaningful advice, but would definitely be interested in how the behaviourist interprets things.  People passing on these things is how we all learn loads on CD.

Good luck.

(btw its chip not cody ;-) not sure where that name came from??? lol ;-) ) but thank you for your response - i know even the behaviourist when the vet rang and said mickey was 12 butted in and said "and the other dog is about 6 right?" so im guessing this is a common situation - but why does it only happen round me? if it was just mickeys age/ill health then surely it would happen round my husband or when they are alone also???? and im afraid thiugh im not going to muzzle chip - it may stop teeth causing damage but it doesnt solve why chips doing it and as (witht the exception of this week) the fights are so infrequent im not muzzling him when for months when he may not need one on - he'd hate it too - he's bad enough with the halti on for walks scooting his head across the floor - a muzzle would just upset him further! ringing the behaviourist today so we'll see what she thinks

> when the vet rang and said mickey was 12 butted in and said "and the other dog is about 6 right?"

This is because the older is no longer the one able to hold his position, adn the 6 eyar odl is at his peak.  Often the take over goes unnoticed if the elder is happy to step down.

It is very common for male dogs to be possesive of their female owners, yoru the top bitch so to speak.

so sorry called your boy cody when he's Chip! lack of sleep is my excuse :-( sorry again.

Yeah can understand the way you feel about the muzzle it is upsetting to see them struggle against this piece of kit!
If it is that infrequent the attacks up until last week- then when you are around the dogs maybe treat Chip as alpha by feeding him first saying his name and generally treating him as top man- that seems mean as Mickeys been with you for longer but if Chip thinks he is first in your mind then the reasons for going for mickey might stop?
When I got my 3rd dog starsks last October my old boy snoop who was 9 was very poorly with a neck/back injury and starsks took over, it did upset me that he growled at snoop and barge past him. Once snoop has recovered and after 3 months was good again the dynamics changed again where snoop would stand over him lucky stasks excepted the change no fights and now snoop is boss again not sure until when as snoops going to be 11 in January but as I'm the only adult here i have a 16 son then I rule the house and am very much boss over them all. So when I say oui they all react.