here here Leigh. i couldn't agree more.........if we all went along Schips lines we would be afraid to step outside the front door!
I take no risks with my dogs safety, their welfare is paramount to me, but they swim in the lakes, jump 5 bar gates when working and live life to the full. Just like I do!!;)

Sorry I totally disagree I have 6 goldens and they absolutly LOVE showing what would you rather do sit at home in the house or garden or go to a show to get totall attention meet loads of different people and dogs they show to get treats {liver, sausages ect} or would they rather just be given then NO more fun to work for it as for the benching only 1 dosn't like it so she isn't benched . So what if it takes 30mins for the judge to go round thay class in that time they get 1to1 attention from me a dammed sight more than most dogs do, they are all kept in my house they know when a show is coming[have great fun having a bath,bounch up and down when the show bag goes out and quiet often even the ones that are not being shown come along no if my dogs didn't like showing then do you think they would get so excited before and during the show please don't tarnish all show dogs with the same brush especially us" numerically large breeds"

I have to say, I agree with John: I was distressed at the number of times the call went out for owners at Crufts! Do your dogs do anything other than show, Emma?? Do they do agility or anything??

What do you want me to say OH YES THEY DO well they don't do anything in your eyes . BUT THEY DO. due to my family commitments I would love to work them but at the moment unable to do so In my eyes YES they do loads they go out everyday to woodland{not boring flat parks or around the streets like alot of dogs} this is where they enjoy nothing more than retrieving their dummy from the 3 lakes present there, if not doing that they are using their noses in the thick bushes if not that playing with the other regular dogs when not at the woods they come to various friends houses if at home they have a very large garden to play in if in the house they have more toys ect than petsmart could stock so basically they do EVERYTHING not just attend a sunday morning class once a week then left bored waiting till the next sunday.

Emma, the rules at a normal benched show state that your dog must be on it's bench apart from attending to the call of nature and is only allowed off for usually about 15 minutes before the start of it's class! Now i know some people never put their dogs on the bench but those are the rules you agree to when you enter!

They are the rules but I don't know anyone who abides by them, I certainly don't. If we want to have a look round then the dogs come with us. When they are on the bench waiting for judging to start they are NEVER left on their own as there is usually atleast 2 of us that goes, so if I want to go off somewhere then there is someone to stay with them. I hate seeing dogs left on their own making lots of noise.

As soon as Albert sees the show bag being packed in the morning he goes nutty. If my dad leaves the room he starts whinging and howling 'coz he thinks we're leaving without him. He did it when he saw me packing Tyler's bag for Richmond. When I took Tyler, he hardly ever stayed on the bench as I was on my own so took him with me while I went shopping plus I wanted him to get more socialized and used to the surroundings before we went into the ring.

I don't understand why people have a problem with dog showing. Every year before Crufts there is usually at least one news paper having a go at it.

Sorry, I shall stop rambling on now.

I don't go to many general benched champ shows if I do the one that dosn't like being benched isn't, If the benching is not in A1 condition then none of them get benched{birmingham 2000 for one instance} I will not endanger any of dogs on such benches especially when' benching your dog is entirely at your onw risk' as I was once told when 1 collapsed, if the kc want me to bench my dogs then they should ensure the benching facilities are in excellent condition I don't care what the rules say about benching I do what is best for my dogs on the day and if that means they sit with me then that is what happens.

You are lucky you take part in a hobby/sport which allows you to ignore any rules you dont like. In all sports I take part in you get thrown out if you don't obey the regulations!

If the rule was in the dogs best intrest I would support it but if it is dangerous then why should I, the kennel club are funded by dogs maybe a lttle more considreation towards them would be nice.

I know what you mean about Birmingham 2000. I took one of my SWD's there and there were 2 massive holes where my dog could have trapped her legs. Nobody was interested We tried to move the benches but it wasn't possible, so didn't bench her. I must admit I never leave my dogs on the bench.

Wasn't it TERRIBLE it is due to that show one of my bitches won't bench now she was happily benched when the panel she was tied to collapsed she flipped her lid jumped off the bench dragging the pannel with her I was there when it happened.
I complained to the society and they said there was nothing they could do it wasn't down to then if the benches were in poor condition, My bitch was a total reck that day and wouldn't show and I don't blame her I made a formal complaint and asked for my money to be refunded which they said they couldn't do

The answer there is to report the society to the Kennel Club. The KC did a piece in the gazette a year or so ago informing exhibitors that they MUST bench their dogs at benched shows. Nothing to do with me, I don’t show but on the working field, if you don’t toe the line you are told to put your lead on and go home, and that is the end of your day! If you don’t like the rules, campaign to get them changed. I've been to so many benched shows where I’ve not been able to get near the ring for dogs off their bench. The benched shows originated from the days when you could buy a dog at the show, so they were on their benches in order to be viewed. Even at my first obedience competition we had to put the selling price on the entry form but I don’t expect many of you can remember back that far.

I remember reading an article in Your Dog magazine about people who were showing their dogs at Crufts, one story horrified me - from a woman who breeds and shows Lancashire heelers, she told the mag that she allows her dogs five minutes a day in the garden playing football with her kids, and THATS IT. This was supposedly so they didnt lose too much weight and ruin their outline? Does anyone else remember that story? I felt so disgusted reading that story, and I have to admit, it did put me off the idea of showing. I know most people probably wouldnt dream of keeping their dogs like that, but even going by the fact that there is a minority that do makes me wonder about the whole morality of dog shows. I mean, how many show dogs out there are being underexercised like that, how many show breeders of Rough and Bearded collies, Old English sheepdogs and other long haired breeds really give their dogs the kind of life they need mentally? I know this will probably cause a bit of outrage, but I think dogs should be running across fields, getting dirty, long coats needing cut in the summer, and ideally, the working breeds should be worked, even if its just obedience training, agility, games etc to give them mental stimulation. I think dog shows ( and cat shows ) are mostly about the human ego, and for some people the desire to charge more money for their pups as the parents are grand champions or whatever.
What is the point in showing? OK, maybe some dogs do get a buzz out of all the attention, but I bet that every one of them would be a lot happier just living normal doggie lives. I don't mean to offend anyone who shows but give their dogs plenty of physical and mental stimulation also, but I just think it must be difficult for people with certain breeds to show and give their dogs the kind of life they were bred for.

I have just read through the posts with interest. I'm rather disgusted that Schip suggests you shouldn't allow your dog to behave like a dog! When I got my first dog, I took on the responsibility of him for life, his health and wellbeing. Top of the list are enough to eat, a warm and comfortable home, and plenty of exercise, running free, off the lead and being a dog. If I can provide those things, then anything extra I do with my dogs is a bonus, whether it be showing, agility, obedience or working trials.
We have to put things into perspective, we've all heard of dogs getting injured whilst off lead, but can't allow that to frighten us into keeping them in cotton wool. Heck cars are very dangerous, but we all use them!!
It's a bit scary to think that some people think it's ok to not provide what seem to me to be the very basics if you have a dog.

I find it hard to believe that anyone could be successful like this! Admittedly my breeds are active working hounds and maybe its different for toys, but a dog must (surely?) be well muscled up & fit to compete in the ring. Certainly in my breed its easy to tell which ones are fit working hounds with good muscle and fitness. The occassional fat blob that comes in our ring doesn't stand a chance with a breed judge. How can a dog or hound that receives no excercise move correctly? It can't!
As for Bears suggestion that dog showing is an ego thing. Well if wanting to produce/breed a fine specimen that can do a days work in the field, come home sound,look good and be a fantastic companion animal means I have an ego, then I guess thats the way it is. however, I do actually see showing as a way for bringing out youngstock that I plan to breed from and showing that dual purpose hounds exist in this day & age. I would never consider showing anything that I couldn't say would do a job of work, or that I wasn't planning to breed from to improve my stock.

Over the years we've forgotten why shows were first held. Shows were the shop window for the breeders! That was their purpose, and nothing else. Over the years the thinking behind them has changed. Nothing wrong with that as far as it goes as long as that’s not all the dog is for.

Why should it be different for toys? My griffs have plenty of exercise, free running, meeting other dogs, attending obedience classes (Cocoa Bean gained her Silver Good Citizen Award last week) and generally being with me. They also enjoy going to shows and meeting others of the same breed, and all of them love walking round the stalls with me.

Joan
Take the rough with the smooth

Same here Joan. I have obedience trained one of my pom's a few years ago and he did quite well, coming second at one time out of about 30 of your normal breeds. I now have a15 week old pom who i'm thinking of starting obedience and then eventually agility.

Just because they are small doesn't mean that they want to sit on your lap all day, some can be more active than your well known working breeds.

I find it quite weird when i see sporting and working dogs being wheeled into a show in trollies! I know that having groomed a white or longhaired breed it is nice to keep them looking right. I once got a lift with someone in a toy breed (smooth coated!). My dogs happily lay down behind the passenger seats on the floor. there was no room in the back of the Estate car for them, as their little dog was there, but what took up the room was the trolly, cage etc. Now that little dog could easily have been taken under the arm, needed nothing more than a shammy for grooming, and its collar and lead! I take a rucksack with a stool attached, containing Bench blanket, Water, Towel, Benching chain and Collars and leads, a Brush and Comband a flask for me!

I am horrified at the lack of Muscle in some dogs, but I do nothing special to keep mine fit other than include them in my life, which includes plenty of walks, Woods, parks, Streets and shopping precincts. Also trains and Buses.

I spoke to a lady who shows Afghans (not top flight winners, but purely for the enjoyment) she told me that her dogs get to be real dogs all week, then Friday nigh is Bath night and they are groomed and titivated for the weekends show. She said that perhaps the coats were not as long or full, but their muscle was better, and she was ahead on that point aginst her competition. I don't think this is typical of the coated breeds, as I know one min white poodle person whos dogs are never allowed on Grass! Except I assume in the showring! That is why i keep and show a Natural breed, that is required to be shown in an unaltered state, just clean and groomed! No trimming (except nails if we have had a lot of rain), or special coat care. Just the odd bath when dirty, and a Comb and brush through.

HI Bear I own and show both Border Collies and Rough Collies with my daughter and they certainly do get to free run across fields and down country tracks and as for mud they like to share it with me as well as hide all their white collars and white legs until they look like s***** brown tangled mutts:D( do you want to clean my bath next time:) ) Gillian

This happened to one of my breed i think the previous year. It was a puppy dog at his first show, fortunately it didn't upset him too much and he went BPIB. The rules are no good for single exhibitors either, how can I obey the rules and stay with the dog? Also you only get one pass, so cannot bring help unless you pay extra, or enter more dogs.