A 5 weeks pregnant Pom got surrendered to me today with the excuse that she (owner/breeder) still had pups from a litter she had with another Pom bitch and that she couldn't get rid of the pups as no one wanted to buy them. I held my tongue as I wanted the bundle of wet shivering fur.

http://209.85.48.11/3336/36/upload/p948895.jpg

She's wearing the hoodie because she was so cold and miserable. She is now indoors and hasn't stopped snoozing and eating.

I've often had bitches whelp here but they usually arrived ready to pop from the Pound, so I didn't have any "run up" to it. The bitch is young, 1 year old and it is her first litter. What can I do for her now to help her? Feeding etc? She appears to be generally in good health but was fed on scraps and is matted. And she has a godly belly.

bless her ans as for the owner Grrrrrr ,carnt put what id like to id get hung !!!!!
make sure she starts a good puppy food ,and start worming her from day 50 i think ? she carnt be fleed now so not sure what you can do there if she has them!....poor poor girl ,glad theres ppl like you to help these poor babys having babys ...so so sad :( good luck xx

I've got her on JWB Junior and she could eat the whole bag. I am not sure if the 5 weeks are correct as the "lady" had to think about for a while and as the dog is "running with the bitches in the shed"..

Oh the poor thing :-(

And the GP wonder why we get annoyed with the 'pet' trade breeders.

> she carnt be fleed now

You can quite safely use Frontline spray on pregnant bitches.

i didnt know that jean ,thanks :) vet told me not to use anything when i went once thought 1 of my girls had flees and was worried the pregnent 1 would get them x

Thank you!

i was looking at that yesterday JWB junior ,not has much proten or fat in it as puppy ,but if shes eating alot she should be ok with that ....i bet that poor girl wasnt wormed if shes eating like that :( and her tum is very full ...or maybe shes 6 plus weeks ? x

I didn't want to start her on too rich a food, maybe I am wrong but I thought if I give her the full whack she might get an upset tummy as she is only used to table scraps which usually means spuds with a bit of leftover gravy :(. She does feel "heavy" but teats are not swollen yet. I think I wait a week and see if I can find a vet with ultra sound. And here is me hoping that the father really is another Pom and not the BC or worse next door..

> And she has a godly belly.

I doubt she has ever been wormed so would get her on Panacur 10% suspension and dose her at 0.5ml per kg of her bodyweight from now until pups are 3 days old.

At leas this will rid the pups of probably a heavy worm burden.

More specific toy breed related breeding advise I am sure will follow.

I doubt that it is a worm belly. It feels different, and I've seen plenty of worm bellies. She is also very heavy for her tiny size. I have Panacur here which I usually use for pups so that's a good idea.

Even if she isn't really wormy the bitch and pups will benefit from being done.

I have wormed all my pregnant bitches for 6 generations now, if she is very full of pups they may be small so being virtually worm free will help them.

Thanks, I will let you know how we get on.

hi whitelily

Re the Frontline - I have never used the spot on, only the spray, and it is actually licensed for pregnant bitches.

I once had a pregnant Chihuahua Long Coat girl, and found a flea on her during the summer months (you, know, that time when it's supposed to be hot!)  :-)

It certainly worked, and my girl gave birth to perfecly normal puppies with no problems, so wouldn't hesitate to use it again.  Like Brainless, I always use Panacur during pregnancy and have never had a problem.

> I am not sure if the 5 weeks are correct as the "lady" had to think about for a while and as the dog is "running with the bitches in the shed"..

I do admire your remarkable control!  :-)

I do admire your remarkable control!

I was very upset and still am but at the end of the day she brought her here and didn't drown her in a bucket of water (we are talking rural Ireland :(). I do despair sometimes and I must admit it has made me very cynical and misantrophic.

thats great :) i always use on pups before they leave here ,now i know i will use if needed :)

again thankyou jean :) thats why i love this fourm learn something new all the time :) xx

I wasn't doubting that you are upset, or even trying to make light of the situation in any way.  I hope it didn't come across as anything but admiration.  You must have to spend a lot of time biting your tongue.

I would be continually in pieces doing what you do, and think it's marvellous.  It must be soul destroying, knowing how some folk treat dogs as if they're nothing but commodities.  I work in a large animal environment, and feel sick to the core when I see how some livestock is treated.

I think it's wonderful that you've taken this poor soul in. :)  I hereby give you a medal for talking civilly to the previous owner. :(
But thinking a few months down the line, suggest that when you home the pups, you explain to the new owners that their pup will probably not look like a breed standard Pom, which would look like this.  http://www.thepomeranianclub.co.uk/33.html

Probably does not need saying, but there is always the chance that the sire was not a Pom at all, with this sort of background.  I would be seriously considering  a scan to get some idea about size of pups and help evaluate the risk that a C seciton may  be needed if they are very large pups making up the very big belly, rather than lots of pom size ones.

What a dreadful story - but at least this girl and her pups have been given a chance thanks to the OP.
Must say, on the pic, she doesn't much look like a pom. Assuming she is pure pom whoever is responsible for bringing her into the world sure didn't study the breed standard ! God knows what the pups will look like.
I hope all goes well for her and her babies.

Well if that's what her other Pom looks like I'm not surprised no-one was interested in the litter.  It looks nothing at all like the breed.  The only good thing I can say for you is that more than likely due to the extremely oversized look of the dog that you now have she should hopefully have the pups normally.

there is always the chance that the sire was not a Pom at all, with this sort of background.  I would be seriously considering  a scan to get some idea about size of pups and help evaluate the risk that a C seciton may  be needed if they are very large pups making up the very big belly

i wanted to say the same thing more or less but didnt want to sound like im being too negative.my posts sometimes come across wrongly :-( so thanks gwen,im not the only one who worried about this.
i hope all goes well for the bitch pups and yourself.i take my hat off to you,i couldnt have stayed so calm and freindly the woman would have got a nice mouthful from me!!!

Anything small(ish), hairy and orange is called a Pom here and I have given up trying to tell people about the different Spitz types. So Jenny is a Pom ;).

Probably does not need saying, but there is always the chance that the sire was not a Pom at all, with this sort of background.

Yes, I had pointed that out in one of my posts last night... :(

All groomed now and showing off her belly:

http://209.85.48.11/3336/36/upload/p948994.jpg
http://209.85.48.11/3336/36/upload/p948993.jpg

Wormed her with Panacur so far no show of worms. And she still sleeps alot.

Oh what a sweet face !  I hope all goes well for her and her babies .

> Wormed her with Panacur so far no show of worms.

You shouldn't see worms with panacur unless the burden of adult worms is large as the wormer usually dissolves them.

I have only ever seen actual worms with a rescue litter that were really pot bellied anaemic and absolutely almost at deaths door from worms.

awww bless. she is so pretty.

Shes beautiful!

Much better poor love.

She looks a bit like a Finnish Spitz x Pom, what size is she?

just read this how sad, she looks happy now good luck with her i hope it all goes smoothly x

I would say that she definitely is a Pomeranian, more the type that you see in Ireland and America.

> You shouldn't see worms with panacur unless the burden of adult worms is large as the wormer usually dissolves them.>

Most of the dogs who arrive here have worms and always show them with Panacur. But I do use Drontal for most adults unless they are in bad shape.

I haven't measure her yet but she is very small.

> what size is she?

I measured her today and she has 11 inches shoulder height.

That is German Spitz (Klein) size http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/160 23-29 cms (9-11 5ins), might be useful to say when re-homing, in case someone expects a smaller dog.

The size for a standard fitting Pom is Size
Ideal weight: dogs: 1.8-2 kgs (4-41/2 lbs); bitches: 2-2.5 kgs (41/2-51/2 lbs).http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/197

I know she is a Kleinspitz, I am German myself and grew up with plenty of Spitzes of all sizes in the neighbourhood. No one here wants to know what she is, as I wrote before, she is orange, hairy and small, ergo: she's a Pom :s.

Ok, here we go, she has just started and whelped one pup so far. The only problem is, she wont let me near. I do not want to stress her even more, so what's the best course of action???

i don't breed dogs so my opinion doesn't count for much but I think you know answer-if she won't let you near then sit back and observe from a distance. no point upsetting her if things going smoothly.
good luck

It's a difficult situation.  My girls always want me near, and even lean on me while they have contractions.  But this girl hasn't had the benefit of love and atention.  Bless her, it's such a shame.

I agree, all you can do is stay within a distance that doesn't stress her out.  Just in case you're needed to open sacs.  I hope that she whelps them easily for you.

Oh dear, hope she's OK with the pups.  Got everything crossed for you.

One pup is out, she cleaned it etc Looks like quite good size pup to me so I don't think they are early, she has now accepted me being there and is more relaxed. This is going to be a long night..

good luck otterhound ,im not going to bed just yet ,let me know how she goes xx

2 pups out.

well done !!! do you think theres more yet :) ...good luck xx

She's more relaxed now and let's me stroke her head.

Bless.  Hope she's done soon.

bless her :) x

Thank you all so much. Pups look black but then they are damp. At least they don't have collie markings.. :s

lol thats a blessing :) x