Hi all,
had my bitch scanned on sat 29 days post mating...no puppies! I am absolutely gutted to say the least..she is a champion and this was a long awaited litter. We had her progesterone tested and she was mated on the relevent days..we just don't know what has gone wrong! Looking back I think we maybe should of had another progesterone test done as I don't feel her levels weren't high enough and we possibly mated her too early. Her levels where 4.5 on the wed and the lab said to mate her on the sat maybe this is the reason why? ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh There are soo many factors that I don't know where my head is at at the minute! The mating weren't great either...2 slip matings but this is normal in my breed. what to do next?

One thing you could try is doing the herpes vaccinations next time -been reading up about it a lot as I'm hoping this is what made my last litter stillborn (that bitch is now pregnant again and due very soon hence I read a lot and worry a lot!) and apparently bitches not taking can be caused by herpes as well.

She did have the herpes vaccine 9 days after mating...maybe next time I will do this before she is mated.I just can't belive it!

Welcome to the club, my girl missed in October so waiting for her season in February which really is later than I like to mate a bitch, as it will means having pups into the show season.

Sometimes it is just that there aren't enough hormones to keep a pregnancy going or some other factor outside our control, after all we are pretty lucky that bitches have such a high conception rate, a doctor wouldn't even worry with us until we had missed for a year, on around 12 cycles!

Hi Barbara,
I just can't belive it...when the vet scanned her on Sat I knew after a few minutes there was nothing and this vet is pretty spot on too and knows his stuff I felt like crying..I did all the way home! Its soo frustrating but I will just have to put it down to experience. I do think I should of had another progesterone test done as her levels han't peaked sky high yet as we where just using the estimated day the lab gave us...thats a lesson learnt there. We will prob AI here next time and have the stud dogs sperm looked at too to make sure its viable. I'll ahve to wait now to March or April time before she comes in again...ahhhhhhhhhh
I was thinking if I should stay with the same stud dog or go else where? He has had decent sized litters but my breeder who bred my girl used him on my bitches dam and only got one pup and the bitch previously had a big litter? I maybe reading too much into things!

> We will prob AI here next time

You do realise you can't do AI if the stud is UK resident.

As for using same stud or another that's a personal choice.

In the past I have never used the same stud when a bitch has missed, but will do so this time.

Fortunately mien ahve always taken on the next mating, never missign twice in a row.

Someone who had a bitch from me took her to same stud twice and missed and on the third time had a litter of 10.  It turned out later that she had slightly under active thyroid,and this can affect fertility/hormone levels needed for ovulation.

Hi Barbara,
I was thinking of getting the sperm sent over to Ireland next time as she didn't have a good experience of a mating but then again that could be down to the fact we mated her too early...oh decisions!
I love the stud dog hence the reason why I used him as theres nothing else at the moment that I feel compliments my bitch enough but I would hate for her to miss again. I just have to get these progesterone tests bang on next time and make sures her levels are nice and high before I do anything.
I will look at her thyroid levels too just to rule that one out as well..thanks.

aww im gutted for you. got no advice, but know what its like for that long awaited litter that never comes. poor you xx

Thanks Tanya...hopefully next time !

Is there no chance of letting the dogs decide when the time is right with the hormone tests as back up. 

If the dog is a reliable stud as to courting his ladies having the bitch stay with the dog is still the best bet for a successful outcome.

Alternatively to AI a bitch being sent to a stud for a week is the norm in the US.

Unfortunately in my breed they aren't the best at courtship and assistance is always needed. The dog is proven but his litter numbers are vary from one to 11 pups!

I dont think tests stand up after personal experience, being almost 2 weeks off as she was ready on day 20. Not day 7 as the tests had said. Are you allowed to say the breed since you sadly have no puppies? Maybe she just wasnt ready, i find that good matings (ties) are easily achieved on the right days, but slips often happen before she is ripe. The change in the vulva ease of penetration and tie. If you can let the dogs decide and perhaps because his litter sizes have varied so much (even though the bitches choose litter size, number of eggs to fertilise, he chooses the sex of pups) he doesnt actually know when a bitch is fully ready and will mate what ever is put in front of him. Therefore only one egg being ready for fertilisation, too early.

I think I was prob too early having her mated...I should of had another progesterone test to pinpoint that she had ovualted rather than just relying on the lab estimating the day. It is reall disappointing but I have learnt from it too...maybe its an omen and I should use another dog! lol

i dont use any tests ,i let my dog tell me our girls are ready ,but i know not every1 can do this , also my friends girl wasnt mated till day 24 and is now in whelp ,ive had a friend using prgesterone and her girl missed too she said never again ,the next season she mated day 18 i think and had 7 pups ,but when using the test she was told day 11 and then no pups :( .....i hope you get the best litter ever next time so sorry for you , when waiting and wanting so much its heart breaking xx

Hi, sorry to hear no puppies, I know how that feels!  Did your vet offer you another scan for next week?  A breeder friend had her last 2 bitches scanned at around the 4 week mark, all were deemed not to be pregnant by the vet, all were scanned (free of charge) the following week and pups were detected, and both went on to have full litters.  I'm not saying that's what's going to happen in your case, but may be worth waiting a bit longer and possibly re-scanning.  Sadly this wasn't the case with my recent mating.  We had scans at 4.5 and 5.5 weeks, no pups detected but as she was showing signs of pregnancy I treated her as if she was, right up to due date.  A couple of forum users replied to one of my postings saying they'd had 2 scans, been told no pups, and then the bitch went onto produce puppies!
If nothing this time, better luck next time - for me too!!!

I mated one of my girls in July - she was progesterone tested, we had 2 matings, 2 days apart, she'd had anti-biotics and CHV - but no puppies.  She'd had a litter 15 months earlier and had 11, so I was convinced she'd have no troubles conceiving again.
I have since found out stud dog missed with another bitch around the same time and according to the latest BRS he has only had one litter of 2 in the last quarter.  Don't think I want to risk it again which in this case will also mean losing out on the total stud fee.
I have decisions to make before she's in season again probably early March.  I suppose thats the only positive point, that she is still young enough to have another chance.

Hi Guys,
yes the vet was fantastic..he offered us a free scan in 2 weeks time sat 28th just to make sure there isn't a singleton hiding in there...but to be honest I don't think she is pregnant she has shown no signs. I spoke to her breeder tonight and I will prob use a different stud next time as my bitch is now 3 and will be 4 by her next season so don't want to risk her missing again plus she is a maiden bitch.

Would it be possible to test the stud dogs sperm?
As I know of a case where for some reason a dog with decent sized litters had a drop in the sperm count(tested because 2 bitches missed) but few months later his sperm was ok again and he sired totally normal sized litters.

It would be a shame to drop a dog that you feel suits her the best just because she missed once, and it could be because of her cycle anyway...
I totally understand your concerns especially with your bitches age and the little rush to get a litter due to her age.
I don't think it is that expensive procedure to check the sperm... cheaper than lose the whole stud fee and probably worth finding out to allow you to use the dog you feel suits your bitch the best!
Alternatively if there is something wrong, you then know it was likely to be the male and not your bitch that has the problem.