My step-dad has gone and brought himself an northern Inuit bitch just seen some photos out of the blue? Don't know anything about this breed but I'm sure they are highly intelligent and need masses of exercise??. He and his new partner have never owned a dog before any advice greatly appreciated..I'm still in shock he never liked my lot even visiting when my mum was alive because of the garden!!  so there you go !

Well they are not a recognised purebred of dog,a nd it appears are still in the development stage with some of their background unknown and there seem many problems, and disagreements leading to offshoots like Utonogan, Tamaskan and maybe others.

Malamutes, Siberians and GSD are also in the melting pot various breed related health issues are coming through.

I have seen some awful levels of inbreeding in one pedigree where the sire was the dams sire, also grand mothers sire and on for at least three generations, not a sound footing on which to base a new breed.

well he will get a shock as the NI's ive heard about absolutely demolish the garden..

Oh dear not a dog for a novice,

A very close friend of mine has one and hes like an autistic dog, he doesn't really care for human company and dislikes other humans that he doesnt know. He bit a woman that came onto his land the other week and is very hard to train almost no recall and a food thief. He doesnt understand greeting dogs is a calm and a thing that should involve no jumping on them, and he will attack any weaknesses as has a very high prey drive. He eats soil and digs alot, not soft mouthed whatsoever and a very picky eater. His gt gt grandfather was a wolf so its no suprise really. He loves my dogs as we go round in a pack and my lot put him in his place and have the power to do so, she doesnt let him off lead now though and he is very unpredictable around strangers. This may just be him, but i dont think they should be your average pet. He has major child phobias and would cause harm to one. She is spending large amounts on behaviourists, and bless her has tried alot. Id love to get my hand on him to sort him out, but he would need to live with me to learn how to be a dog, and id have to have a muzzle on him out in public, Would take several months to be able to have some trust in him.

Only for the experienced dog handler, with strong dicapline and no full time workers. He likes a good run, but never tires. She does wish that shed never got one.

Umm someone I know has got one recently.  She's getting on, has severe arthritis, a dog never seems to last long in her hands, but I've never known someone have so many breeds!  She's telling everyone who will listen at training club that she's got wolf in her!!!  She, at 4 months old is absolutely massive, would say almost the size of a GSD already in height but finer boned and still looks as though she's got a lot more growth in her.  Must say her temperament thus far is wonderful though.

LouiseDDB can I ask where the great, great grandfather was bred?  Doubt if it was in the UK that there would be any wolf in the mix, unless it was say American etc. though I still question this fact

I don't think anyone can say for definite if there is any wolf content in the Northern Inuit at all.  If the rather dubious information that has been put forward by those that were around at the creation of the 'breed' in the 1980s, then the foundation dogs were 4 'wolfie-looking' strays  that were located in rescue shelters in the US and imported to UK.  Their exact backgrounds are therefore unknown.  Apparently GSD, Husky & Malamute were then introduced to the breeding but, as far as I'm aware, no evidence has been produced regarding the exact dogs used in the development of the breed, where they came from or their health status.

One prolific breeder took part in a television interview (video is still kicking round the internet if you know where to look) in the late 80s/early 90s stating that she was breeding wolf hybrids but changed her story when she realised that wolf hybrids could not legally be kept as pets.

Some of the dogs I have seen pictures of are nice looking dogs and I'm sure some make great pets but the 'politics' that goes on around them is ludicrous.  Pedigrees appear to have been fabricated where blanks couldn't legitimately be filled in, the names of dogs changed to disguise the levels of inbreeding going on (again, many pedigrees available to view on the internet) and dogs that are claimed to be Northern Inuit one day become a whole different breed - Utonagan, Tamaskan, British Inuit etc. etc. etc.- the next day as new factions develop...it's enough to make your head spin!

Well, he has got the dog now regardless of what type of dog it is, (he should have looked into the 'breed' first but hey ho) he now needs to give this dog a good long term home, he has not started with the easiest of cross breeds as who knows which breed the dog will have more characteristics of, I think for safety's sake the dog should be treated as a Husky (make sure he gets plenty of books etc on the breed) and regarded as a dog with a high prey drive needing to be on lead with a harness, the garden will need to be secured.

Advise him to very quickly join training classes the sooner he starts to train the basics the better, you don't want this dog to go the way of LousieDDB's friend, there is no reason with the correct training and giving attention to his breed traits that this dog should not grow up to be well behaved and with a nice temperament, but he must put the work in and realise it will become bored if not stimulated, that it will need plenty of exercise once an adult and may be highly strung, without understanding how to train the dog it could all go drastically wrong and if he is not prepared to go to training classes as a new dog owner and be shown how and what to do, it would be far better to take the dog back now as it will be ruined, but, if he puts the effort in he'll reap the rewards. :-)

Quite agree treat as high prey drive sled dog traits with probably guarding traits slung in for good measure.

It has generally been found when any spitz breed is crossed with anthoer more easily trained one/less primitive one that the Spitz primitive traits nearly always have the upperhand.  In other words independence (unreliable off lead), and prey dirve.

>It has generally been found when any spitz breed is crossed with anthoer more easily trained one/less primitive one that the Spitz primitive traits nearly always have the upperhand.  In other words independence (unreliable off lead), and prey dirve.

My Chow X Rottweiler certainly seems to evidence that theory!  I've never encountered a more independent dog.

It seems that people who deliberately cross Spitz breads hope to get the tractability of the GSD/Collie in any Spitz cross, and unfortunately the opposite seems to nearly always be the case and I keep seeing them up for re-homing. 

Sadly there are people crossing my breed with exactly this effect and the result is dogs in rescue, the resulting crosses seem harder than pure Elkhounds, but then they probably end up in less knowledgeable hands.  Or is it that a pure Elkhound has it's independence tempered by it's general sociability, especially with people, and the dogs they are being crossed with (primarily GSD, or Akita are less so).

i wouldnt advise this breed to anyone without good dog experiance , definatly not a novice or a first dog

they need collisoll about of exercise and stimulation , is there someone at home with this dog all day? if not be prepared to have their home and garden wrecked

these dogs like most get bored very easily and need to be constantly entertained or have a "role" to play

i think personally this was a bad decision by your dad and i would advise him to take it back to the breeder and research breeds before choosing

Thanks for your replies...He always wanted a GSD all the years he was with my mum.. then mentioned to me about 8 months ago he liked the husky now this has turned up! When he mentioned a husky I said well I hope your ok with exercising for 2 hours a day? When my tervuren was alive I went and holidayed with my sister and small baby had to get a coach so left my kye with my mum. As she was a rescue had a few issues herself a thing with white diesel vans ? one day he walked her and on returning home she saw this type of car and went for a man in it.. after that he refused to take her out again so my mum did who luckily bonded with kye brilliantly for my mum who had a fear of alsatian type dogs. That was only 9 days of dog sitting. I have not yet had a reply to the e mail mentioning about taking her out with my lot all a bit awkward really as his new girlfriend has moved in to my mothers house after 2 years of my mum passing away so have not yet met the pup. I do know that the girlfriend has left her job and has not found work yet so at least the puppy is not alone while my step-dad is working full time. I will keep you all posted how how it turns out, I have only met the girlfriend 3 times so maybe she has owned a dog before lets hope so! 

Good heavens, I have GSDs but would not entertain having a Northern Inuit, despite the fact that I think they are fabulous looking dogs. Why didn't he get a GSD if that was what he wanted, although I wouldn't even recommend a GSD as a first time dog, but at least it would have more stable characteristics.

What on earth were the breeders thinking selling a NI to a complete novice dog owner???

Still, you never know, he could have 'beginners luck' and it all works out fine. My niece's first dog was a rescue huskyXgsd, and like Magica, the first I heard of it was when she rang to tell me. As I was listening to her, alarm bells were screaming in my head BUT, she did put the work in and he is a beautiful settled dog.

I wish him luck, and sincerely hope it isn't a terrible mistake.

I'll give him his dues he is very good once he starts something and will read up on dogs and this breed to turn her into a dog to be proud of I'm sure, I was a novice dog owner and had a rescued dog- I first started reading dogs magazine and then brought many books- I'm sure he will do the same. Also he knows I am here to help with anything.

There are 2 Northern Inuits that live locally,very striking dogs they are,but they're well known in the area for being aggressive to other dogs and they also can't be trusted off the lead at all.My friend's yorkie was badly attacked by one of them.I can see why people would be attracted to them because of their looks though.

> I can see why people would be attracted to them because of their looks though.

Far better if the looks attract is to research and find an established Spitz breed with more predictable traits that will fit into the persons lifestyle.

Loads to choose from, from Sled dogs (in my opinion the most difficult for a novice) through hunting and herding breeds, (easier than sled dog usually) through to toy and companion breeds (the easiest of this group for novices).

I remember his Mother & Father had a massive Samoyed years ago that looked like woolly bear they have a shitsu (sorry can't spell it) Charlie now he is highly aggressive so really want to take around my Snoop so she can meet a friendly dog while she is young rather than being subjected to Charlie. I think I will e mail him now and suggest it.. I might of frightened him off by saying can't wait for her meet with my lot- he might of gotten worried for her being my 2 youngsters can be rather manic! Plus meeting all 3 at once.... :-)

I have a keen interest in these wolf-a-like breeds, my friend has got two british utonagans, I go training and walking with these dogs. Must say in regards to these dogs they are very good natured, non-aggressive and quick to learn. On the otherhand they do chew, dig, howl, shed and need plenty of excerise, as brainless pointed out that they do also have some of the bolder traits of the spitz such as a high prey drive and indepdendence etc. If anyone is reading this thread, thinking about getting a ute or similar but worried by inbreeding/ incidence of genetic disease/ small gene pool please visit the BUA forum and have a look at their outcrossing scheme. BTW all of the utonagan societies I believe are health testing nowadays and sharing information with each other.
With regards to the Northern Inuits, I attended the NIS Skipton show this year (as they also hold utonagan classes with the BUA and vice versa). I must say they certainly do have a consistent breed type and a think that goes some way with regards to temperament. Before the show started, most of the dogs were offlead running around in the field, Northern inuits, utonagans and a variety of other breeds were mingling with each other, people and children. I must say they acted extremely well, no fighting, listerning to recalls etc Obviously like in any breeds you are going to get anxious/ aggressive dogs but before questioning a dogs breed I would always look at its enviromental circumstances first. I really hope your father enjoys his NI but I'm afraid his garden is done for :)

I really hope your father enjoys his NI but I'm afraid his garden is done for
Step-father sorry :)

I've registered on this site because I thought that a more positive report on Northern Inuits might be welcome.

It is true that their origin is uncertain, and that there is a lot of politicking among breeders and associations. My partner and I ignore all that because we prefer to enjoy our dogs for the lovable beasts they are. Although they would probably do quite well at shows etc., we bought them to give them a happy life and to enjoy their magnificent appearance.

We have Sapphire, a bitch aged 25 months, and Smokey, a male aged 20 months. They both weigh over 30Kg and have been neutered. Apart from their appearance (which is beautiful, whether you want to call it wolf-like or not), the most striking thing about them is their soft, gentle nature. They are house-dogs through and through. They are devoted to us and to each other. They love being handled (there is no part of them that you can't touch) and are physically very affectionate. They are good with people and with other dogs. They don't bite, snap, snarl or threaten. Smokey will occasionally growl lazily at Sapphire if he's feeling tired and grumpy and she gets into his space, but she just backs away for a few moments and then comes round the other way to pacify him! She's the slightly dominant one and is also very maternal. She'll occasionally lie across him to quieten him down and then lick him.

Yes, they can be boisterous. No, you can't have Northern Inuits and a beautiful garden. Yes, they steal and chew things, but usually only if they're left alone. The breed does suffer from separation anxiety, so it isn't wise to keep an Inuit as a solitary dog; but the companion(s) needn't be Inuit. They are moderately easy to train and they do recall very well. When out walking on the downs, they'll usually keep to within 200 yards of us and often to within 100 yards. They are very much pack animals, will adopt humans as their pack and then stick loyally to the pack.

They require almost as much attention as children. They're not for the casual owner. Owners who treat them lovingly get the love repaid many times a day.

If you want to give part of your life to large, elegant creatures who will enhance your lives and join your family, try a couple of Inuits.

how lovely to hear such a happy tale!you obviously love your dogs very much,and I wish you many more years of joy with them!

Your still very young dogs sound enchanting, and extremely well loved, like most well cared for well adjusted family dogs, just like those we all own here, and also the many dogs of any breed or cross, mongrel, non breed that are well owned and sound in body and mind.

To give an informed judgement on a breed/type of dog really needs you to have experience of dogs from cradle to grave, several generations and a broad cross section of bloodlines to be able to say this is 'typical' rather than this is what 'my' dog is like.

The comments about Northern Inuit, Utonogan, Tamaskan met in discussions is not about the individual dogs, it is the concept of them as a breed in development, and the process, ethics and goals in achieving this.

Sadly it seems that there is no real aim, lots of disagreements (typical in all human activities), and far too much inbreeding of a small original set of bloodlines, which history has shown us gives rise to the problems many breeds have been left with now..

There seems to be no real agreement about what the end result is to be in terms of looks, usage or temperament other than that they are generally Wolfy/Spitz type.

There is a whole raft of established, in many cases ancient Spitz breeds, in fact in FCI countries they have their own Group (5) and this is further subdivided, for example Sled dogs, Northern hunting dogs, etc. 

So bearing in mind how difficult it would be to establish a new breed that is healthy, the amount of wastage (animals that do not fit into the breeding program to achieve the aims of the breed) and how long even the chosen individuals will take to breed true to even a broad interpretation of type is there any real purpose in doing so.  Many of us feel the people involved are at best misguided (and in many cases jumping on a Fashion bandwagon, n order to sell puppies,a dn yes it has happened with many breeds over the years, from 'Dulux' dogs to '101 Dalmatians', 'Hush puppies' and now 'snow dogs').

The energies of the people involved in breeding would be far better spent supporting existing breeds breeding programs, as some of the breeds are quite rare, to enable them to remain sound and healthy or improve where needed.

There really is no need to re-invent the wheel, and make the mistakes made in breeds in the past that we are all busy avoiding/fixing.

I suggest you may like to Visit the one show in the UK where all our recognised Spitz breeds come together in November at the 'Nordic'.

You can see the breeds in decent representative numbers at championship shows, but unfortunately in the UK they are spread out among all the groups except Gundog and Terrier.

Your dogs sound lovely - but all the comments you make could easily apply to virtually any of the Spitz breeds, particularly the "easier" Spitz breeds. There are well over 20 different Spitz breeds - from the Pomeranian to the Alaskan Malamute - recognised by the Kennel Club - most pretty well established and documented and some are among the most of ancient breeds. I really fail to see the point of attempting to produce "new" Spitz breeds when a number of old breeds are struggling to survive in the UK.
Those of us who are dedicated to the infuriating Spitz don't keep them because they are easy. We would love them to be more obedient, less noisy and moultless - but then they wouldn't be Spitz!

There really is no need to re-invent the wheel, and make the mistakes made in breeds in the past that we are all busy avoiding/fixing.
Agree 100%

Hmmmmm ... the point about reinventing the wheel could have be applied just as well to our stone age ancestors who first started to breed from particular wolves to create the new species that we now call dogs. Why do it? Why should mankind interfere with nature at all? Why should gardeners want to keep producing more and more types of roses, when there are already so many hardly distinguishable varieties? The answer is that all humans are distinguishable and have different tastes, and so want to produce something that reflects their own tastes and not other peoples'.

To me, a non-breeder and a domestic dog-owner, the most important part of owning any dog as a pet is to give it a happy life. A close second is the sheer enjoyment of the dog's beauty, nature and personality.  Thus a relationship is formed that enhances the human and the dog.

My post was to help answer the OP's query about Northern Inuits. In context, it seemed to me that direct experience, however limited, trumped dogma.

But stone age man didn't invent breeds.

Most breeds evolved gradually from types that established over a long period (and large gene pool, and what was no good was culled).

For example, Molloser types, Spitz types, greyhound types etc.

Then some of these types became rationalised or specialised based primarily on utilitarian (usefulness, adaptability to climate terrain etc) priorities.

From these the modern breeds have been created over about 150 years.

As said before to create a breed you have to waste a lot of material, this material is living breathing needing homes dogs, and they don't suit the breed needs.  The whole process has to be repeated over and over to just establish a pool of sound healthy foundation stock that breeds true to type.

Roses and plants do not really have these ethical problems, though of course the raising of GM crops does, as these could impact negatively on nature, and endanger native species etc.

There really cannot be any justification for this when there are well over 200 breeds already in existence, many screaming out for support to save them from extinction or gene pools becoming so small they are no longer viable.

So what is better to preserve decades/century's work, or try and start something from scratch when you already probably have breeds to meet all those requirements. .

My main problem with these GSD crosses are the high number of reported health problems particularly epilepsy - not to be wondered at really because of the lack of quality animals used in the foundation and the lack of health testing. It is unfortunate but even the person who started the crossing does not know the truth about the animals used or if she does she is not saying.

I find the reason given for trying to develop this 'breed' totally offensive they were produced purely for the looks no reason to my mind to mate together random untested animals who in some cases suffer the same sort of health and temperament problems just to produce a pretty mongrel that vaguely resembles a wolf though I am not sure which wolf they are supposed to resemble.