Hello,

I have a 18 month old Jack Russell neutered male who has been fear aggressive towards other dogs since the age of 10 months.
I have tried a number of approaches, some of which I now bitterly regret (Cesar Milian). In July I enrolled in a local agility and traiing centre, as I was advised that he needed intensive exposure to other dogs..(he lives with two others and is fine with them). All that happened is we would watch classes from a distance, but Ralph was still too scared to take part. This has gone on for three months with no help from the instructor of the class.
I have recently adopted the dog listening (amichien bonding) approach. But I am concerned from the reports i've read on here that it might also do more harm than good.
I'm really at my wits end. I have made lots of mistakes in the past, from having too little knowledge and experience.

Please can anyone share any methods with me that have worked with a fear aggressive dog? Ralph is nervous by nature.

Thanks in advance

Ralphiemum

Just on the offchance: you don't live anywhere near Lincolnshire do you? It's just that if you do, I know the perfect trainer to help you.

It's a slow process and does need to be VERY slow with just one dog at a distance to start with -intensive exposure could very well have the opposite effect.

I would definitely ditch both Cesar Millan and the dog listener's methods.

Thanks Marianne,

We live in Merseyside, but I would consider travelling, or does the trainer have associates in this area?

Ralphiemum x

Hi, try to relax and believe you can improve the situation. I know a lot of fear reaction dogs rehomed into agility homes who now compete in what i a really very intense excitable environment - it just takes time and patience.

I wouldn't over expose the dog to other dogs but build up much more slowly. Think of something that would flip you out - like snakes or spiders or heights, and devise a plan to get yourself to be comfortable to get close to a great big snake and say if it snakes tht freak you out to reach the point where you even enjoyed holding one and putting it round your neck. The challenge might even be too demanding. Maybe to be in a room with a snake in a glass tank while you ignorerd it by focusing on your best friend might be more attainable.

So this is all you need to do with your dog. You don't need to teach him to love dogs just to ignore them by concentrating on you through providing for him the things he loves instead of the things that he fears. Build up really slowly keeping him as much as possible within his comfort zone for small amounts of time. Start at the lowest time at the greatest distance and play and reward using the reward he loves the most be it food or toys. So in agility class go in do some focus excersises/games for 5 mins then take him out for a bit of quiet and then bring him back in. Do this several times each evening and as his confidence grows you can then start to build up more time. The slower you build him up the stronger the effect will be. It is easy to expect too much too soon. So it is good to think about us and the snakes or spiders etc....

Hopefully people will have more ideas and better still can suggest a trainer nearer to you to help yoiu and show you some good focus games.  

Thank you,

I have thrown a lot of money at this problem, but still never had one iota of improvement. Not one professional has ever suggested easing off the dog encounters; some have actually encouraged it despite me explaining I feel out of control or out of my depth. Do you think its best to give him, almost a 'detox' for a few months- as he does seem to get a thrill from his defending himself? I just worry that might alienate him further from the FACT of other dogs, and accepting and sharing his world with them...or am i thinking wrong headedly about this?

Thanks for your contributions

Hi.
Tenaj has given you some very valuable advise, in my opinion.
If it were my dog, I'd first think it all through properly.
Does he have to meet/be around other dogs? He obviously
has his own mates at home, with whom he gets along fine.

Is it likely he will ever enjoy being around other dogs? Will he ever improve enough to take
part in agility classes? If not, why spend time and money on that. Other dogs will
turn up around you every day, for free ;-)

In my experience, grown up dogs don't really have any longings to meet strange dogs.
It's us who think they would like to play with other dogs. They don't. They prefer dogs they
know, and feel secure and comfortable with.
Taking a time out might be a good idea. Dogs tend to act like they are used to. Until you manage to
break a habit by diverting their attention, or avoiding the specific situation for a longer period of time, their behaviour will not change.

My aim would be for your dog to be able to meet other dogs from a distance, without reacting with agression.
Good Luck,
Karen

Thank you Karen,

Yes I agree that Ralph will never really like meeting unknown dogs. All I ask is that he learns to calm down and look to me to protect him. Otherwise, and i'm sure many of you are aware of this scenario, walks can be unpleasant and problematic. I know commonsense is called for in all this.

I just wondered if anyone else out there had any success stories? and feel free to interpret what success means, whatever you feel really.

Thanks,

Ralphiemum

one of my dogs has always been nervous of other dogs and what ever i've done has never changed that so i decided to take another approach and not worry about her being friends with other dogs but just want her to not be bothered when there around.
i don't put any pressure on her and when out walking started by using distraction and rewarding her keeping attention on me.lots of nice treats in my pocket as she is very food orientated.
i never approached other dogs and would not avoid them but keep a good distance so she didn't feel threatened. this was done over a long period of time. she was also better if i took one of my other dogs out walking as they were fine around any dog so gave her a good example and she'd stay more calm.
i also used the command 'leave it' and once she new this very well and i new i could hold her attention i could let her off the lead in the same field as other dogs and if they came over to her i would say the command and she would move away from them.
i'm at the point now where we can go walking with no problem and she will just ignore others dogs and enjoy her walk,of course your get the odd dog that will insist on chasing your dog even if she does warn them not to. so i take a walking stick with me sometimes and it just means if a dog rushes up i can put it between my dog and theirs to give her a little space, the i just keep moving and she'll follow.
all she really wants now is to enjoy her walk either with or without my others dogs and be left alone. as far as i'm concerned this is a good half way house and something i can live with.

'she really wants now is to enjoy her walk either with or without my others dogs and be left alone. as far as i'm concerned this is a good half way house and something i can live with.'

- Yes that's something I could live with!!!:) that's exactly what i'm aiming for.
I know all dogs are different, that goes without saying, but can I ask how long roughly it took to reach that stage? I'm wondering cos I think I may have unrealistic aims in terms of time scale.
We've got his whole life to work on it of course - but I suppose there's a point where I might have to acknowledge something isn't working.

Thanks for all your help

it's hard to judge because all dogs are different it took me a few months as i didn't want to pressure her and make things worst.
it may be worth finding a training class near by that has small classes so less dogs for yours to worry about but i would leave this until you've progressed a little further with just being able to be around dogs with a calmer manner.
at my training class there is plenty of space to sit and not have you dog too near other dogs and found just attending the class but not doing anything for a few sessions until my dog was not stressed by their presence helped.
there's really no quick fix so don't think about how long it will take but just be pleased with little steps you make, how ever small. also don't think because you have a good day that things are better and therefore push things up a level ie if your dog gets used to another dog in the same field just stay at this level for a good while until your really sure things will stay this way.
it may be worth finding friends you can walk with  but keep your dogs a good distance away from each other, just so your dog gets used to  there company.
when i got my last dog one of my other ones hated her so we would go for walks but keep a good distance apart but by the side of each other, it took time but after a couple of weeks they would walk happily together but still with enough gap that they couldn't touch one another.

I just wondered if anyone else out there had any success stories? and feel free to interpret what success means, whatever you feel really.

Yes. Several. We get lots of dogs like this arriving at training class. And it can be astounding to see how fast some of these dogs can be turned round when the owner does work had and listens to what they are told.  We had a petterdale rescue ho was the dog from Hell and he can now sit side by side other dogs and even be let off the lead around other dogs. I wouldn't believe it if I'd not seen it. I instructed them to train the dog within his comfort zone and build up his focus on them and build up his confidence. The patterdale came to us with really huge comfort zone - he couldn't even be within 20 metres of another dog.

I have one in class right now. A 5 year old GSD who spent most of her life attatched to a chain totally unsocialised and 'working' as a 'guard dog'. They now live in a flat and no longer need a guard dog and want a nice friendly pet. It took almost an hour to get the dog to step into the church hall full of dogs without barking - to sit maintain cool and then well done and out to her own space to reward with a game of ball. Within 5 mins of reaching that point she was able to move through the door into the room and take two paces into the room and sit and then out to reward.  The trick is to find something that motivates them and build up that motivation within their comfort zone. When they have strength of focus on that 'motivator' it can be used to focus their attention ono instead of leaving their mind to do it's own thing. With nothing else to focus on it just sees the dog. But with the incentive of a high value reward it starts to 'work' on focusing it's mind to earn the reward. It is not learning to like dogs but learning to work to maintain focus to earn a high value reward. Eventually the 'work' becomes a new 'habbit'.

This is why trainers have not advised you to keep away from dogs. In order to replace one habbit with a new one it needs to be repeated repeated repeated obsessively and consistantly and constructively.

My advice to you would be homework for the next 2 weeks. Forget the training. Instead play and reward. Find a way to gain real focus and a desire to work. Use this to teach tricks or obedience etc...  An extra advantage is you are playing not training and not 'working'. You are simply gaining pleasure from interacting with your dog and he with you. Therefore it is building you both up and is 100% guarenteed to enhance both your lives. Later you can use this in the big wide world but not yet. If you read Harry Potter you are basically building up your Patronus Charm.

When you are out for now don't 'control' but just observe what's going on. Work out what distance Ralf can be from dogs. Notice what type of dogs he reacts to. He should build up a tollerance to calm not at all interested non reactive dogs reasonably quickly but be highly reactive to untrained in your face type of dogs.  Learn to read him and read other dogs and anticipate reactions - use what you learn to keep him within his comfort zone in advance so without looking like you are crossing the street to avoid dogs ( which can teach them they are justifided to fear dogs )

Thank you Bear and Tenaj,

I will work on the play. Ralph is highly motivated by his ball, or any squeaky toy. We do play a good deal in the home. I am consulting one to one with a trainer whose approach echoes Tenaj's.
I think i need to loosen my expectations a lot and continue to build on my own relatinship with Ralph by becoming his main focus -sorry I don't read HP but I get your gist!

Thanks again for all the support.

That's good. One to one is great to help motivate you and pace your expectations and give you the support and incentive to keep going, and also will help you recognise your achievements instead of feeling you are getting nowhere. Like with teen kids & young adults it's the hardest stage to get through. Keep us posted as to how you get on. :)