I have been feeding arden grange to my girls for a while now and dont really have any problems with it apart from the fact that they both have VERY bad wind.
I have been reading on this site about CSJ and am thinking of trying it. For those of you that feed this food, or have fed this food....which type do you feed and why and what do your dogs think of it?
What differences have you noticed since changing onto this food? Anyone raised a litter of pups on the puppy food? If so which puppy food and were they OK on it?

Sorry for all the questions, just want to make sure this food is OK before I try my girls on it

Thanks

Which are you feeding, as one particular one of the chicken based oens has that effect, it is the oen with oats.  It used to be the standard Adult when they still did AG classic, and AG.  I th8nk it is now called Premium.

Have no such issues with the Lamb version.

Hiya thanks for your reply, Im feeding the arden grange classic lamb and rice.

I feed CSJ That'll Do!  It suits my dogs and they look really good on it, good enough to be placed at shows ;)  They have good musculature too.   Their tums are fine and poos firm and fairly small, not at all smelly either.  No windy tums :-D   they LOVE their food and wolf it down :-D

I raised the pups on Natural Little Champ, mixed with James Wellbeloved puppy - mainly because I prefer to feed the pups something that their owners can easily buy and this gives them a choice without affecting the pups.  Pups grew steadily, had excellent tums/poos and were very healthy with lovely coats :)   I also fed mum on the N Little Champ and she kept a good weight thoughout and a lovely coat.

I believe you can ask for samples which would help you decide which food to try, and if in doubt you can speak to Ceri who will be able to advise on which food is likely to suit yours best.

Hope this helps

Ladyjade,

Sorry to be graphic here but what 'sort' of wind do your girls have?! Reason I ask is that I've just swapped my Sam onto JamesWellbeloved Turkey & Rice. She was on AG Lamb & rice before but her poos weren't too firm and obviously with a Sam if there poo isn't firm it can sometimes make a bit of a mess!! (hope you're not eating your lunch or anything!!) Anyway Megan burps like a man who has been on the beer all night but I found that changing her food had no effect! She is doing much better on the turkey & rice so I think the lamb might not have suited her. I am however keeping my Cavalier on AG as she does fabulously on it.

In regard to CSJ, my best friend feeds this to her GSD's, one of which has a VERY sensitive stomach, and they do very well on it.

What sort of pup do you have out of interest?!

HTH
Alice :-)

I feed Command Performance 24 to my youngster. I switched from Arden Grange when his allergies were diagnosed.  (There's fish oil in the Arden grange)
He absolutely loves it and looks great, he is long haired and his coat is fantastic.

CSJ have 3 ranges and although I feed from the most expensive range, I know people who feed from the other two and are also really pleased with the results. I'm certainly happy to recommend them.

> I'm feeding the arden grange classic lamb and rice

Now that does surprise me as I have never had wind with the Lamb, nor has anyone I know that uses it.

Hiya Alice, my girls' wind comes from the bottom end and can be very smelly at times lol.
I dont have a pup at the moment but am hoping to raise a litter soon so wondered whether or not I should try this food.

It seems noone has had any problems with it and I suppose its trial and error with any food and dogs, what suits one may not suit another.
They have been on burns before but their wind was even worse and their tummies used to really grumble, JWB their poos were sloppy and I found royal canin made my golden hyper lol. Arden range has suited them both better than any other but it can be costly and they do still have BAD wind. I was just looking into something a little more cost effective but without wavering on quality.

Anyone got experiences with this food? I have been looking at the that'll do. Anyone else feed this one?

BTW I have an 8 yr GSD and an almost 3 yr old Goldie
Amy

Morning,

My 3 Rotties were fed on AG large breed Chicken and rice, and whilst they look good on it there is quite a lot of "produce", and the wind!!!! We've recently had to look at economising, so had been mixing a bag of Chappie complete with the AG, still doing fine but no change on the "waste" front. I recently tried a bag of CSJ Champ (the really cheap one), to see how they went on it - absolutely brilliant. Very small bullet like poos, the wind has reduced significantly to. Coats look good, and my eldest actually eats it, she can be a bit of a fussy madam.

The cost saving will be phenomenal too, if I feed as per the recommendation a 15kg sack lasts me 2 weeks, so that's around £25 a month instead of the £105 to feed them AG.

Omg WOW thats a massive saving!!!! My 2 girls were on 300 grams of AG a day or there abouts!
A bag lasts me about 3 weeks, I have ordered a bag of the CSJ Champ and CSJ That'll do, only came to £27 with p+p. Thats less than I would pay for 1 bag of AG, only time will tell but will definately be keeping them on this food if there are no problems with my girls.

Thanks very much everyone :-)
Amy

Hi ladyjade I have fed Arden grange since it was first on the market, but I must admit I sometimes used pro plan as well.
I got some free 15kg bags from a rep at a show once and used it with great success. I also feed natures harvest with it as well and I find that my dog's coats and condition is exactly the same as Arden grange and pro plan. I use food from both the cheaper ranges, I wont use the more expensive one as that would defeat the object in my opinion. One of my dogs has skin problems and he has no problems with this feed.  I havent reared a litter on it, but used half CSJ puppy and half arden grange puppy. I have been in dogs over 20 years and have never until this years used a cheaper complete feed for my dogs, but I carnt find any reason to switch back to an expensive food when this is doing the same job. Our food bills have been cut from approximatly £130.00 to about £45.00 per month. I am not sure if i can say which foods i use from the range, if i can say can someone let me know
karen

Hiya Karen, thanks. I think you can say, other people have :-)

Hi ladyjade i am feeding the super dooper to the dogs i am showing and the herbie nuts to the restings dogs, the herbie nuts is being fed to the dog with skin problems. I have also used the That ill Do and the champ puppy. I also use a teaspoon of salmon oil on all the dogs food, but have alway done so even with the arden grange. the only one downside for me is it tends to put weight on my dogs.
karen

Hi ladyjade, my crowd used to be fed on the AG chicken, think it was the performance. I then changed to CSJ lamb and rice, to be honest purely for financial reasons.  The money savings are huge, but I can't honestly say that I've noticed a difference between the AG and CSJ in terms of condition of my dogs ... that may be a good thing?!  My youngster I did feed for quite a while on the CSJ Champ as she refused to eat the AG and the CSJ Lamb and Rice, however, she's on the same CSJ as the rest of the gang.  Ceri at CSJ is very helpful and doesn't 'push' the most expensive range of feed they produce.  I'm very happy with it, as it appears are the 4-legged gang, and I wont be changing.  Hope this helps.

Just trying CSJ via samples they sent to me. Have noticed that their poohs are bigger in size although nice and firm. Is that usual??

> Anyone got experiences with this food? I have been looking at the that'll do. Anyone else feed this one?
>

I have recently tried That'll Do, after reading that Dill has great success with it.  I am using it for my Bearded Collies - they would snaffle down anything they were fed!  They look good on it, and it is a huge saving pricewise.

Hi, not sure about the increase in size of poo, presumably that's just due to the different ingredients.  I've always been told that if the poo is nice and firm (kickable!), then it's healthy poo :-)  If the last bit to emerge into the wide open world is a bit squidgy, then there's too much being fed!

> I've always been told that if the poo is nice and firm (kickable!), then it's healthy poo

Oh I do like that saying!  - very apt and easy to remember LOL

Who flung dung?

I've found the poos quite small, compared with Burns, but I was having to feed more Burns plus more calorific stuff to try and keep muscle on the dogs :(

hi,

As i have said in previous post, i have three dogs. Two english pointers and an old terrier mix. My two pointers had been fed on JWB fish and rice for probably around two years. For about the last year they have had nature diet added to it, just to make it more interesting really. My terrier has been fed just nature diet for a while as she doesnt have many teeth now poor girl. My dogs did fine on JWB, however i was looking at reducing my food bill and came across CSJ and decided to give it a try. I chose the 'That'll Do' variety and im am really pleased with how they are doing on it. For the price of one 15kg bag of JWB i was paying £34.00 (cheapest i could find locally) I can now get two bags of CSJ inc delivery for less. I would even say that my bitch's coat has improved and has even more shine than before. I have been surprised as i was expecting it to upset them as it contains wheat, but there have been no ill effects from this food at all. Poos are nice and firm and no excesive wind!
I will add, that i still add Nature Diet as i wouldnt want to eat dry food all the time and this combo is suiting them fine.

I would reccommend this food completley.

I have started feeding CSJ That'll do for my 3 elkhounds and 1 of my shibas.1/3 of the price(pay £10 for 15kg) ,dogs eat it with relish and all look absolutely great!
Nikki

Have just put my lot on to CSJ ordered a bag of Natural Champ and That'll Do and see what they like best.  Changing from AG so hoping condition will stay the same or better.  But from all the messages on here it seems like good stuff. So far they are gobbling it up and considering I put them straight on to it (naughty I know) have had no upset stomachs at all, poo's more crumbly but at least solid!

I changed from eukanuba to CSJ that'll do a while ago. It's a third of the price and the dogs still look as good as they did on eukanuba. I wouldn't say they look better coz they looked great anyway but I've saving money with no obvious loss to them :-)

> So far they are gobbling it up and considering I put them straight on to it (naughty I know) have had no upset stomachs at all, poo's more crumbly but at least solid!

Which have you put them on first? I bought the same two bags and had harder crumbly poo with one of them.

They are eating the Natural Champ at the moment and have crumbly poo!

Same as mine :)  they were happy on it but I prefer them on That'll Do, they're onto the third bag now.

Are the poo's less crumbly on That'll Do?

Yes, the poos on That'll Do are what I'd call normal. Almost the same as when they were on Arden Grange, perhaps slightly firmer. Dogs can be so different I was curious when you said you'd had crumbly poo too, I'd not seen anyone else mention it on CSJ reviews or discussions.

i've just ordered some after receiving some samples which mine adored for ease of use on show days they do one that they recommend to run with the barf diet, but the postage of £20 is a bit off putting most deliver free

but the postage of £20 is a bit off putting most deliver free

Don't you have anyone near you selling it? Our closest is just ten minutes drive away and we can collect any day of the week, it tends to be breeders that sell it.

If you look on the CSJ website it will give you a list of local stockists, these will then either deliver free to your door or you can probably collect it from them.

My local stockist delivers once a month and I just work out how much I want and she delivers it.

> the postage of £20 is a bit off putting most deliver free

That must be 6 bags you've ordered though?

There doesn't appear to be a stockist near me, but I don't mind the delivery charge. I got two sacks originally to try it and the postage was £6.70, even factoring in postage I was saving over £30 on the cost of my two bags of eukanuba (bought at trade prices from Batleys). The next time I order 4 bags and it was £13.70 postage - but I saved about £65 :-)  The delivery man leaves them in the car port for me too.

I rang and spoke to ceri and she said to order online, as i think theres not one near enough to me

It was 5 bags i ordered cause i thought might as well order more than i needed as didn't want to pay that each time

Well just for the future postage is the same for two bags as it is for one so you wouldnt have paid anymore for delivery if you had ordered 6

Excellent will remember that next time. Thanks :)

> Yes, the poos on That'll Do are what I'd call normal. Almost the same as when they were on Arden Grange, perhaps slightly firmer. Dogs can be so different I was curious when you said you'd had crumbly poo too, I'd not seen anyone else mention it on CSJ reviews or discussions

Sorry still on about poo!  Have noticed out of my dogs after reassessing the poos that though all are quite "dry" but only my Bullmastiff's is really crumbly.  Then she always had firmer poos than the Greyhounds. Theirs is now dry whereas was always quite soft.  Just wanted to share that with you all, hope no-one was eating their lunch!

Do you go to any competitions/shows?  You may be able to arrange with a stockist to deliver to those which will save you postage.  In addition to the stockists shown on the CSJ site, there are more listed on the Camddwr Canine site ... they list the CSJ agility stockists:  http://www.camddwrcanine.co.uk/stocklist.htm

I do Yes that might be an idea, thanks alot.

Very quick delivery i only ordered Friday but got a bag missing so they are investigating, delivery man never even knocked the door so i couldn't ask him to check his van

I don't really understand how people can compare these two foods

CSJ That'll Do:

Chicken Meat Meal, Wheat, Rice, Chicken Fat, Unmolassed Beet Pulp, Wheat Feed, Full Fat Linseed, Prairie Meal, Yeast, EC permitted natural anti-oxidants, Mixed Tocopherols, Vitamin C and Rosemary Extract.

Arden Grange Adult Chicken & Rice

Chicken Meal* (min 27%), Whole Grain Rice (min 26%), Whole Grain Maize, Chicken Fat*, Beet Pulp, Fresh Chicken (min 5%), Dried Brewers Yeast, Egg Powder, Fish Meal*, Linseed, Fish Oil*, Minerals, Vitamins, Nucleotides, Prebiotic FOS, Prebiotic MOS, Cranberry Extract, Chondroitin Sulphate, Glucosamine Sulphate, MSM, Yucca Extract. * Preserved with mixed tocopherols and rosemary extract.

Iams

Chicken (>24%), maize, wheat, animal fat, poultry meal, sorghum, barley, dried beet pulp, chicken digest, fish meal, dried whole egg, brewer's dried yeast, potassium chloride, sodium chloride, sodium hexametaphosphate, DL­methionine.

Surely Arden Grange wins hands down everytime, infact CSJ looks pritty awful, people really want to feed "Prairie Meal" and "EC permitted natural anti-oxidants".

In all honesty if Iams has released a food with the ingredience CSJ have, people would be slaughtering it on here, so why is a smaller manfacuter not being?

I don't think that anyone has compared the two foods directly, just said how their dogs are doing on it. From my own point of view, I changed from Arden Grange large puppy to CSJ CP24 when my pup was diagnosed with allergies and could not have the fish in the arden grange anymore. I have no personal experiance of the other ranges but the command performance range is certainly not pretty awful. It was the closest I could get to the arden grange but without any fish products.

Arden grange large puppy
Ingredients
Chicken Meal* (min 30%), Whole Grain Rice (min 19%), Whole Grain Maize, Chicken Fat*, Beet Pulp, Fresh Chicken (min 5%), Dried Brewers Yeast, Egg Powder, Fish Meal*, Linseed, Fish Oil*, Minerals, Vitamins, Nucleotides, Prebiotic FOS, Prebiotic MOS, Cranberry Extract, Chondroitin Sulphate, Glucosamine Sulphate, MSM, Yucca Extract. * Preserved with mixed tocopherols and rosemary extract.

Typical Analysis
Protein 26%, Oil 16%, Fibre 2.5%, Ash 7%, Moisture 8%, Omega 6 3.8%, Omega 3 0.69%, Vitamin A 20000 IU/kg, Vitamin D3 1350 IU/kg, Vitamin E 135 IU/kg, Calcium 1.4%, Phosphorous P 0.95%, Copper 22 mg/kg (as Cupric Sulphate).


CSJ Command performance 24
Ingredients
Lamb Meat Meal, Whole White Rice, Corn, Chicken Oil, Beet Pulp, Brewers Yeast, Whole Egg, Whole Linseed, Herbs (marshmallow, peppermint, fenugreek, parsley, rosemary), Minerals, Vitamins, Chicory Extract, Yucca Extract, Chondroitin, Glucosamine Sulphate & MSM.

Typical Analysis
Protein 24%, Oil 14%, Fibre 2.5%, Ash 9.0%, Omega 6:3 ratio 8.7:1, Vitamin A 15,000iu/kg, Vitamin D3 1,500iu/kg, Vitamin E 90iu/kg, Calcium 1.75%, Phosphorous 1.3%, Zinc 155mg/kg, Copper (as Cupric Sulphate) 15mg/kg
.

People aren't saying they have the same content. Most of us have changed from Arden Grange to cheaper foods and CSJ That'll Do is the one mine (and others as you can see from the thread) are doing well on at the moment.

Ive recently Switched to CSJ, Im really Impressed. Feed Herbie Nuts to my older Bitch & CP18 & CP24 yo my Competing Obedience dogs.

Mav hasent had a solid poo for a year, so im really chuffed with it.

My Bitch was on Burns before & her coat has really changed & looking Fantastic.

The boys were on Genesis, their coats have always been fantastic, but now their poos are better, esp Mavs & are living off Freash air!
As well as a £15 reduction in price per bag!!!!

I also REALLY like "Dem Bones" as a treat!!!!!

I had fed AG for some time to my three, usually adding extras to thier evening feed such as Nature diet, veg, tuna, etc. I was very happy with how they did on it except for my one labs coat which never had the same shine as her mother's.

I switched to CSJ 'that'll do' after wanting to reduce my food bill, and after reading lots of positve reviews i tried it with some skepticism. I was proved wrong and all three have done great on it. Maybe some of the ingredients are 'pretty awful' but they seem to be agreeing with my dogs. Maybe a bit of ruffage is good for them.

My labs coat has improved, and my rather ribby springer has gained a bit of weight on it which is a positive. I still add extras to thier evening feed, but i am really pleased with this food and would reccomend it to others, unless of course dogs have known allergies.

I also like that they are a small independant company and i would much rather support them, than a large commercial organisation.

I note the Chicken meal in Arden Grange is 27%, but as the list of ingredients is MUCH longer it's a smaller percentage than you'd think, also as Egg Powder, Fish Meal*, Linseed, Fish Oil* are listed AFTER the Fresh Chicken 5% then I can't help but wonder why they are even included?  they must be lower amounts than 5% ;) so why include them? sometimes less (as number of ingredients) is more ;)

Also why the different fats?   What is fish oil?  where does it come from/which fish?  has it been preserved? what with?

As my dogs don't tolerate maize in larger quantities then it would be daft for me to feed them a food which had maize as the 3rd ingredient ;)  

I also prefer to feed a food with fewer different ingredients in it after having a dog that was allergic to many things and itched and scratched to the day he died.  To that end I have tried other foods including Burns and found that my dogs did very poorly on them, Burns reduced my dogs to 'toast racks'.   For me CSJ does what it says, my dogs look great, have great musculature, have plenty of energy - but aren't lunatic (been there done that ;) ) and enjoy it. 

I also have saved a small fortune on dog food :-D  and I can't argue with what works for my dogs.

> Iams - potassium chloride, sodium chloride, sodium hexametaphosphate, DL­methionine.

this is why Iams wouldn't be recommended by me, can't see why dogs need a food so high in sodium or chlorides ??  and prefer to have natural preservatives ;)