Okay people ..Hudson ..12 month old next week (if he lives that long :D ) ...has ALWAYS screamed and got hysterical when left on his own in a confined space. He would NOT use a crate although we tried (and consequently had NO sleep) for 6 weeks when he was a baby. When we went out and left him in the kitchen he would scream hysterically , poo and pee .....as we had a neighbour who was in all the time we couldn't keep doing it. So we used to leave him in the living room ..moving anything dangerous or able to be eaten out of the way.

He began to get destructive in the living room , we got the new sofa AND my neighbour started work , all at the same time ...so we decided to bite the bullet and leave him in the kitchen again. We put his bed , some toys , a bone , water and food in there and close the door on him. We expected him to go bananas for some days (obviously) but though that eventually , he would realise that we will come back and everything would be okay.

We only left him for a few minutes to start with ...but the screaming began straight away ....and the whining and the scrabbling . After about 10 minutes we weren't sure what to do ..IF we let him out will he think he had acheived what he wanted? We decided to tell him NO! and when he had been quiet for a minute we let him out and made a fuss. This carried on for a few days ...then we went out ..and stayed out for 20 minutes. When we got home , neighbour said he had been going mad ..we went in and the kitchen was soaked! He hadnt peed ..it was panicked heavy breathing :(

This has been going on now for nearly 3 weeks ..we leave himn for a while EVERY day to get him used to it. It isn't improving at all , in fact he has scrabbled at the door SO much that the lino has been torn away (THAT doesn't bother me as we are going to resurface anyway).

So ..what next? I am beginning to feel as though w cannot go anywhere! I sympathise with BethN so much ..I know teenagers are hard :) Hudson seems to be stressed from the moment he wakes up until the moment he settles to bed ..he HAS to be able to see us .....we are quite capable of surviving this teenage period but can anyone give useful ideas for making this easier??

Melody

By the way ...make no mistake ..he doesnt BARK when we are out ..he SCREAMS and YIPS in panic

Melody
Sorry can't offer anything but tea and sympathy :(
I went out yesterday and as we are trying to wean Murph off the crate I left him 'out '- the house is open plan so there's nowhere to shut him in .
I left toys ,chews even left the telly on for him :)
Came back to utter destruction -every cushion of the sofas (10) ragged up and down the room ,kitchen roll chewed and spatt allover and to make it worse pawprints up the windows !!!!!!( must have been waving to the neighbours :D )
he can get out of the crate -so I worry about him getting trapped :rolleyes:
not much christmas shopping getting done here !!
Sorry ,like I say no help just sympathy ;)
Liz

Hi Melody - I've got a screamer too! the Cookiemonster, he is now nearly 8 months and still does it if left completely on his own, ie - if for any reason I take the other two dogs out and not him, or shut him in when I am home on his own - He is absolutely fine if left with both or either other dogs! But on his own screams the house down, apparently this doesn't last the whole time we are out - for about 15 mins tops - so not as bad as Hudson. He hates to be on his own, especially if he thinks he is missing out on a walk. He is now ok in the garden on his own, but has worked out how to open the back door so I actually have to lock it now - I told the kids off the other day for letting him into their garden and they swore blind they hadn't - so we watched him - he scaled the gate (its wooden and about 5 ft high) he didn't jump it, he climbed it like a cat! little git! But he just loves company! You have my sympathy - I think separation anxiety is one of the worse problems to overcome - and must be harder in a breed like Hudson - it sounds the same as Cookie though as in hating to be separated from the rest of the pack! You know what that means don't you!!! you need another one!!HeeHee - I have crates for my dogs, and cookie does it whether he is in the crate or not, I tried feeding him before I left, in the hopes he would forget we were going and get on with scoffing - didn't work with him, although he may have been distracted from yowling quicker - My neighbour say he isn't a problem and it is very rare he is left completely alone in any case. I leave kongs etc to keep him amused but don't if they are all together incase a punch up ensues!!! I'm not much help am I??? sorry Julie:)

Melody, :)

I feel for you I really do :) I can relate to you so well, My two little pups are crate trained they sleep in there of a night and spendabout a hour in there of a day...mainly because they are under my feet when hoovering. They did do all the crying the first few days but I just ignored them gave them loads of goodies and toys and they stopped (Maybe because there is 2 of them they are company for one another).

My eldest two Saskia and Zeus, have always been use to the indoors but know as the husky family has grown they spend a lot of the time in the garden, and I am trying my best to get them use to the runs but like Hudson they cry and scream at the top of there lungs to get out, I put this down to tjem always being treated like babies and then when on there own or isolated away from me they panic and it upsets them as they have been seperated from "mom" :rolleyes:

Could it be possiable if you put Hudson out side? ...... maybe he would not panic as much as he was not in a enclosed space and he felt a bit of freedom.Maybe if he had a run or something similar which he could relate to being his own little house/space.......Just a thought, but I know how you feel as I amgoing through the same the the elder ones

Hope the baby is Ok anyway (He is soooooooooo adroable) I know how guilty you feel when you see them upset like that.

Dogs :)

Hi Heidi ...he is the same outside unfortunately ...if he can see us , fine ..if not then he scrabbles , cries , screams , barks at the patio doors. We will NOT let him back in until he sits and keeps quite ..and he knows this ...but he will still *get one on him* as they say here abouts and will screech and scrabble sometimes for an hour ..then he will sit quietly and we say good boy and let him in. Other times he will sit straight away and be quiet ..then he gets let in straight away.

*Sometimes* he will sit ..then as you appraoch the door he gets up ;) Trying the old sneaky dom thing I reckon ..we NEVER let him in until he sits and stays :)

Melody

PS ..have just got in from being out for an hour ...Hudson is now bleeding from several of his front claws (not badly) as he has been trying to dig out of the kitchen (concrete floor) the floor in the kitchen is actually wet from his panting and barking ..he has just drunk a whole bowl of water as he has made himself so thirsty

Melody,

I see you will have a problem there........ Its only because he loves you sooooooo much that he can not be without you :) It is a nice thing to have but, at the same time it will be a nightmare for him to get out of.

Hope his paws are ok :) I really do not know what you can suggest, Have you though of asking a good dog trainer etc on how to deal with these issues?

Hope the angel is ok

The huskies send lots of woo-woo's and best wishes

Heidi

Melody -I don't know if this is of any use but I did read about a very similar case in Jan Fennells book ( it was the first book -the dog listener ? think that was it )
other than that sorry :(

Liz

Thanks Liz ..will see if the local library has a copy

:)

Mel

Melody.

Just thought, why dont you get a play mate.......then you could have 2 little angels :D :D :D :D :D :D

LOL

That was suggested to me by a Mal owner ;)

Funnily enough , rumours soon abounded that I *was* getting another pup....*shakes head* ..no can do until he is older Im afraid ..hopefully this time next year I will be looking forward to be next bundle of joy :D

:D :D

Mel

Hi Mel, seem to remember warning you about this a a certain exemption show. Grit the teeth girl, it does pass.

Jackie ..that was teenagehood ;) I remember the conversation very well :D ..this has been going on since 8 weeks old ... ;)

Mel

Well Mel, you are going to have to come down hard, or learn to put up with it. Try some hard looks and avoid the situation it you can.

:)

Difficult to give hard looks THROUGH the kitchen door ;) Also difficult avoiding leaving him Jackie .....

Putting up with isnt a problem for me ..I'm out :D Neighbours are moving soon though so I would rather get the matter cleared up before we get new neighbours :(

Mel

Mel

I feel for you, you know how I feel for you. Unfortunately I don't have many suggestions as this is one of the "few" problems that we don't have now. Jake has a cage in the kitchen which is his bed. It was originally bought to shut him in but after the same kind of problems as you (yowling and digging to the extent that I thought he'd hurt himself) we have never actually shut him in it for longer than it takes me to mop the kitchen floor. He just sleeps in it and seems to think of it as a den. And he is shut in the kitchen/utility room when I go out or when we go to bed !!!!!!

However, if you can work this out, then it may help, as I believe that he did used to do this and the trick was making him realise when it wasn't worth making a noise (if you know what I mean) - Jake used to do this whining when we went to bed until I started giving him a "night night" (??????????) biscuit and telling him "bed" and then leaving quickly. I now follow this same routine whether going out or going to bed and that coupled with the fact that he hears me turn the house alarm on (in both cases) seems to make him realise that I am either going out or to bed and nothing he can do will bring me back so he doesn't bother. It is however a different matter when I leave him in the kitchen and he knows I am wondering around elsewhere in the house, he does everything you describe like Hudson...... So the trick is that obviously Jake knows the difference between making noise when I am here to respond to it and not bothering when he knows I am not (clever devil). I know that he makes no noise when I leave him and go out as several times (during acute paranoia attacks) I have left my voice activated dictaphone in the kitchen just to make sure.....

Have just read this back and I have no idea if you can understand what I am TRYING to say or not... Let me know if it makes NO sense

Good Luck :)

Beth

Hi Melody,
How about something homeopathic, it won't hurt and well who knows it's worth a try.
I've had a look at my faithful print out and it suggests Arsen Alb 30c 1 tablet 3 times a day for fear esp when dog gets upset if left alone. Also Ipecac 30c for a nervous dog lacking in self confidence may be irritable and always on the go. Lachesis 30c for continous nervous bark. Pulsatilla 30c shy dogs who hate being left alone chews home/furniture. Choose the one you think sounds nearest try it if it hasn't worked in a week try next best etc. Since this is a long standing problem 6c potency might be best.
Just an illustration, Mum has had neuralgia in her head and ear for about 10 days worse at night needed pain killers. I got her some Aconite yesterday which she took, was very hot and sweaty during day went to bed slept and has only had 1 painkiller since 8pm last night..... who knows??
While I was looking up for you I also found a remedy for fear of men so will try that for Cava, never noticed it before.
Hope this might be of some help,
Anne

Thanks Anne ..I will look into trying it ..we have a health shop in town I wonder if they do homeopathy stuff? I will have a decko tomorrow

Thanks

Melody

Poor baby! Hope Hudson's paws are on the mend soon.
When you shut him in, do you do this while you're still at home? My only thought would be to try putting a piece of your clothing you've recently worn along the bottom of the door, and let him hear you're around, to start with, including telling him "No" when he's noisy. You've probably tried it all. I hope you find something that works for him soon:(
Lynn x

Yup Lynn ..if he *knows* we are in (we've shut him in the kitchen whilst staying at home) he will still yap and scratch but not the ferocity he does when we go out. We have left the TV/Radio on ...

He *knows* what we want ... ;) Typical Mal

:D

Melody

I have a spare copy of Jan Fennels book "the practical dog listener" would you like it? If you email me your house number and postcode, I'll happily post it to you.
Julie :)
Sorry if repeating what someone has already said, but rushing through the thread. Have you tried leaving a radio on?

Julie ...my email addy is on my profile ..if you could drop me a line I would appreciate it

Cheers
:)

Melody

Melody
Another thought !! -Have you tried re-introducing Hudson to the crate ? Just as a den for a while ?

Like Nicky I didn't agree with everything in the book but there was a dog who sounded just like Hudson -I can't remember how she fixed it
Liz :)

Poor Hudson:( and you.......

Sorry can't offer any advice.....but do own a copy of the Dog Listener so will search it out and have a look:)

Well I've had a look but I have the Practical Dog Listener and can't spot anything specific for seperation anxiety, just the pack leadership plan thing really and using this to help prevent it, sorry.

I have a friend whose bitch has got more an more fear agressive on the lead. It first started when she had her first season, and she has just finished her second.

She shakes from head to foot and lunges out barking ferociously. Now that the mornings and evenings are dark, she has even started reacting this way with people that appear suddenly from around a corner, or walk towards her when it is very quiet.

Her vet has given her Arnica 30c, but this seemed a rtather strange remedy.

At home and off lead she is great, and is fine with other dogs off lead, but of course my friend won't now let her off lead in public, only on private land with her freinds dogs. She is great wioth mine who are only half her size, not dominant in any way, but at shows when we haven't travelled together has had a pop at them, until she realises who they are.

I would be interested in theis printout you speak of.

My friend is seriously considering having her bitch spayed, as with such problems she would not wish to breed from her.

Brainless - has anyone checked her eyesight?

The vet found nothing amiss with either eyes or ears,,though obviously not an expert. She is only 15 months old.

Hi Melody
I know a couple have already suggested Jan Fennels book, and to be honest although I read it and wasn't v.impressed (and went to hear her talk with Ruee in Barnstaple) I think from what you are describing Hudson sounds like the example dogs in her book. :(
She maintains that if the dog thinks of him/herself as *pack leader* then they will stress out if they can't see you, likened to how we would feel if our small child disappeared.
Try reading it, some of it is common sense, with some of it she contradicts herself, but if you can come away with even one useful tip it will be worthwhile. :)
Good luck! :D
Nicky

Yes Nicky ..I watched some of the TV programmes ..but the thing is ..he is fine apart from the *being left on his own* bit ...he has no fear aggression , he is overly boisterous on meeting other people ..but not dominant ..just happy to see them , he is okay with other dogs , he eats after us , out of the door after us ...etc etc Also ...he has always been like this ...it isnt a recent thing .

I think I will have to just stick at it and hope his claws can stand it :(

Melody

HI Melody

I do have a small suggestion, not sure if it will help but one can grasp at straws..... ;)

Take a peek at www.pets.f9.co.uk and go to the Shop, and to Books. There is some very up to date info on separation anxiety, first book.

Lindsay :)

Hi Lindsay ..I went to the site and the book you are talking about looks great ..but the site will not let me buy the darned thing! Keeps saying DNS error , anyway , I have emailed the guy and told him I want to buy the book ..will let you know if I get a reply :)

Thansk
Mel

HI Melody,

I'm sure he will reply, he has to me a few times in the past, and has even let me rant on about a workshop I attended which really made me mad <g> via the phone :)

He does go abroad a lot, so the only trouble is, you might have to wait a few weeks if he is away, if you see what i mean.

Anyway I hope you get the book and I hope it helps :)

Best wishes
Lindsay

Bless him , he emailed me last night to say he would get his techy chap to look at the site today and would let me know :)

Mel

Oh excellent Melody, fingers crossed!!!

LIndsay :)

Hi Melody, I haven't used it myself, but was talking to May last pm about the Dog-Stop I posted about last week. Her terrier Scout was one of the most determined barkers I've ever heard in action, but May said that now she only has to lift the Dog-Stop and Scout shuts up. As Hudson isn't a nervous dog, might it be worth a try?

Sounds like a definite possibility Sharon , thanks very much :)

Oh Melody, I know how you feel, we went through a similar phase with our Samoyed (first dog). He ate through the kitchen door to get out. We couldn't leave him in the garden as he would dig under the fence and we were getting noise complaints from absolutely everyone! We tried everything we could think of and what other people told us to do but it didn't work. He grew out of it eventually but it was sheer hell.:(
I doubt if a cage is the answer, he may go even more panicky when he finds himself so enclosed and alone to boot.
If he was just making a noise, I would suggest an Aboistop antibark collar, but as he has panic attacks as well, not a good idea.
Have you tried a treat ball? I find that keeps Chewi happy/ier when he is restless. Put nice things in it like liver, let him play with it and when he is well into it, leave very quietly for a short time, building up the time away.
Valerian is supposed to be a good pacifier. It works on me anyway:)
If I think of any more ideas that are not inhumane (and believe me we were on the verge of that with the sammy we were so desparate), I'll send them to you.
Let me know if the Jan Fennell/other book works. I have the belief that malamutes have already read the books and take the p*** out of us when we try them.;)
Good luck and hugs for Hudson from Chewi

Hi Jean :)

He will not eat or play with anything whilst we are out :(

Will try the homeopathy route for the time being :)

Ta chuck

Melody

Hi Melody,
I'm normally a lurker on here but have you thought of trying a DAP diffuser. Available from your vets. It releases pherormones into the air which have a calming effect on the dog similar to the effect its mother used to have. Think it has been mentioned on this board for firework problems but it also could help seperation anxiety.
Aileen

Hi Melody,

I was just about to mention the DAP Diffuser then saw Aileen has already suggested it.
I think it would really be worth a try (either that or you could borrow Timber!).

Along with the diffuser you could also try giving him a few drops of the Bach Rescue Remedy just before he's left on his own.

Jacquie

Borrow Timber!! :D *giggle*

We have tried Bachs ...but it didn't seem to have any effect. He is *obviously* feeling hormonal as well as having the separation anxiety (I can sympathise with the hormonal thing ;) ) and his bolshiness is increasing daily , but I expect that ..we do know we can't let him win a situation and we do NOT get ourselves into a no win situation with him because of that :)

The other odd thing ..Jacquie you are probably the best person to answer this (or Maid Marion) is that he will NOT sit or lie down when he is damp!! He HATES it. He also doesnt like th rain .....daft beggar! When he gets in from a walk we have to to towel him off as otherwise he will just pace for hours!

I am going to look into the dap diffuser in the meantime ...and we will keep on leaving him whilst we go out ...

Melody

We have a bit of separation anxiety with Rosie. When we take Floyd and Jasmine out for their walk and leave her because she can't do the distance she hates its and starts to howl as soon as the door is shut. You can hear her from the street :) I have no solution I'm afraid because all we do is ignore her. I suppose this is where we are lucky not actually being attached to the neighours.
It is a vicious circle really because even though you don't let him out immediately he knows that eventually you will and if he's been screaming all the time he will think that his screaming has had the desired result, even though it did take a while. I will have a think about it but I do understand your anxiety about the neighbours, malamute voices can carry for miles!!
I have read the Bach rescue remedy has to be used over a period of time to work best, say a couple of weeks, given a couple of drops twice a day or something, alhtough I have to admit I have not had any joy with it.
The dampness thing I have no idea about, Floyd dries himself off on the carpet, Jasmine parks herself in front of the fire and Rosie would happily lie in a puddle for ever. Its just Hudson being wierd (nothing new there then ;) )

Its just Hudson being wierd (nothing new there then )

How true is that? :D

Thanks Jayne ;) We tried the Bachs for some time but had no discernable effect on Thuggy at all ...though *I* may decide to take it instead ;)

Mel

Melody.

*Thuggy* oh Melody you are harsh on the little angel :) fancy calling him that I had to have another look at thim yesterday as he is soooo handsome. :)

Heidi ...have you ever heard that well known saying Handsome is as handsome does?

:D

At least he is my Thuggy and no one else's (no one else would put up with the little swine :D )

Mel

Just wondering if you used the regular Bach's Rescue Remedy, or went for one of the more specific ones, such as Cherry Plum? I read an article in the Nov issue of 'Your Dog' where this woman had great results using it on a stressed rescue dog in kennels. He wouldn't stop pacing, etc, but after a month on the remedy he was totally cured. IT says in the article that you can discuss the remedies with your vet.
Just a thought.

I used the regular stuff , and we used for a few weeks

Melody

I agree with Jayne that Hudson is just being weird. Have you ever asked him how he would cope in the Arctic? :rolleyes:
My lot don't even notice if they're soaking wet they will quite happily sit or lay anywhere - usually on the settee! (not a pleasant feeling when you sit on it after them not realising they've been there )

Jacquie
:)

Jacquie ..that is the question I keep asking!!

I reckon he is a sofy dog really and not an arctic dog ..he howls if he is in the garden and its raining!! He just WILL NOT sit down if he is damp!

Daft mutt

:)

Hi Mel

There is also Skullcap and Valerian tablets that you can give for anxiety etc .... There is also a stronger just Valerian in liquid form that you can give. Dorwest Herbs have everything listed on their website might be worth a look.

Dessie