Hi, Im asking for a friend here.
She has a toy bitch in season and ready to be mated. The pups will be due early Dec(I think)..I have told her not to breed this season as the pups would be ready to go in the middle of winter and possibly when people dont have a lot of money after Xmas, which means she might have a few extra mouths to feed herself. She wont listen, has a stud dog lined up and waiting and is raring to go!!! How do I try and convince her that this time of year isnt really the right time for breeding and selling pups???
Or am I wrong in thinking it is?

I would hope that she already has a waiting list for her puppies and so she will know that people will want them whatever time of the year they're born?

Money is short all the time at the moment and even established breeders with waiting lists are struggling to home their last 'wrong s*x' puppy. :(

Well I have a litter hopefully due in November, not an ideal time of year perhaps but I do have a number of homes lined up anyway and from that point of view I have no concerns, but everyone's situation is different. May I ask what her reason is for breeding ?

our litters nearly always fall at this time of year, its irelevant if you are a responsible breeder, with a waiting list, and not relying on newspaper ads to sell puppies.

"its irelevant if you are a responsible breeder, with a waiting list, and not relying on newspaper ads to sell puppies".

Indeed. That is what I was trying to say.

I breed when it suits me (assuming bitches co-operation).

I prefer winter litters as that is when there are fewer big shows, and I want my girls for showing, and with a coated breed, breeding basically takes them out of the ring for 98 months from season to a decent coat again.

Also fewer neighbour issues with noisy puppies waking at crack of dawn, though much more work cleaning etc.

Also my breed are easier to keep warm than keep cool.

Hi, many thanks for your replies.
She doesnt have any homes waiting and will be placing ads in papers etc!!
She seems to think that because they are a popular breed they will sell regardless.....DUH!!!!
I may be wrong and its awful to say but I think shes breeding because after Xmas she is always skint...as are we all and shes going to need the money to pay off her bills etc.
Sorry if I sound a bit catty, but I think shes wrong.
Good luck to all who have pups due...at least you have homes waiting:)

> its irelevant if you are a responsible breeder, with a waiting list, and not relying on newspaper ads to sell puppies".
>
>

I am so pleased to see this comment. Because I was made to feel a very irresponsible parent and dog owner.
I wanted to buy my daughter a puppy for her  Birthday. I was being criticised from all angles. I knew my daughter and knew any puppy who had her as a mistress would be very lucky indeed.and felt it was irrelevant when I was buying her the pup.Thankfully I found a breeder who judged us and did not find us wanting.

Obviously it depends on the actual  breed, toy breeds can vary so much in size both as regards physical size and litter size, but many toy breeds should not be sold until 12 weeks of age due to their tiny size. I have just mated one such bitch up and if she is pregnant and if all goes well this time, the puppies would be born late November, which then would mean being ready late February and not just after Christmas at all -with all of spring and summer to grow up in and go out and about to socialise. Yes there may be a few cold weeks to start with, but rather that than having a few good weeks and THEN winter. That's my view. As the breeder, I would not mate any of my large breed bitches this time of year (did it once, never again) as the rain and cold makes it too hard to let them be outside a lot (and keeping a large litter of large pups 100% indoors until ready to go is not nice for anyone) but the toys I don't worry about as they are so very much smaller.

>I wanted to buy my daughter a puppy for her  Birthday. I was being criticised from all angles.

As long as your daughter chose the puppy herself I see little problem.

breeding basically takes them out of the ring for 98 months from season to a decent coat again.

God thats a long time LOL

I have had 3 of my lined up homes pull out not long after the litter was born, leaving me with more pups to find homes four, I had 5 homes lined up 7 pups born one staying so one to find a home for I now have 4 pups looking for homes.

Personally i don't think there is a wrong time to have puppies.  Even with well known experienced, reputable breeders that do have waiting lists, often when the actual time comes after the pups are born, some people on the waiting lists do drop out for various reasons.  The main thing is to always be aware that you may have the puppies stay with you longer than you anticipate, and unless you are 100% happy with any potential new owners, it is best to wait until the right home comes along.  This is just one small part of breeding to consider.  You also have to be prepared to take back a puppy/dog any time in the future.

Have you asked her if she has any relevant health tests done?  You could trying to explain to her it is imperative to have these done, and she really shouldn't breed her girl unless she has clear tests.  You could also tell her it is 24/7 for at least 8 - 9 weeks with having puppies, and impossible to go out to work.

I've got a litter due to leave home Christmas week.  Of course they won't be going until the New Year, all pups are already sold, that's if she has any LOL!  Hopefully she'll have more than last time or I'll have a lot of disappointed owners to be.

> breeding basically takes them out of the ring for 98 months from season to a decent coat again.
>
> God thats a long time LOL

oops that was meant to say 8 - 9 months

I don't know if there is a wrong time to have puppies...
But there definately wrong reasons to have puppies and it sounds you friend fits this category...

££££££££££££££££££ with a bit of luck the bitch won't take, sorry, but that't how I feel about these money grabbers

I don't know if there is a wrong time to have puppies...
But there definately wrong reasons to have puppies and it sounds you friend fits this category...

I fully agree with the above statement.

I am due a litter in early November and they are due to go to new homes 1st week January. I am turning people away as I know she will not have enough puppies compared to the enquiries I am getting even though I have explained that the time of year is not ideal. If you are a responsible breeder and breeding for the right reasons then there will always be a demand for your puppies. Any other reason and you can bet they will be left 'on your hands' for many weeks. I think some people are becoming more 'savvy' as to what to look out for.

I agree - both last time and this time (if I'm lucky!) my girl's puppies were born mid to late November, so ready early February which is ok for the time of year. But it does sound like your friend is breeding for the wrong reasons. :-(

i do hope that this friend who seems to be breeding for 'money' does realise what hard work is involved with rearing a winter litter especially over the christmas period, having to look after puppies and bitch while opening christmas presents, cooking christmas dinner etc. And not to mention the expense of puppy food, puppy milk, feeding mum to keep her puppies healthy, vet checks, money aside for any vet emergency. :(

well in reply to the origianal question...how do you get her to see that its not a good time/idea....i would say you cant.
you can never win with some people.they just want to do it and theres nothin you can do to stop it.

however you could now (knowing theres no other way)help her to do it right.show her what she needs to buy,how to prepare.write down the basic costs of equipment.the extra food the bedding the whelping pen the pups milk food ect like Gemini05 has mentioned.
or maybe this could be what puts her off??
honestly you dont have to exadurate the cost or the hard work involved.
the expense of doing this correctly may well leave her short FOR christmas.

i dont think there is a wrong time to breed but i do worry that people will be buying just for xmas and so i would never do it at this time of year.i (like others) enjoy spring puppies.

The only right time to have puppies is when you have committed homes lined up for them ... the majority of these should be lined up before even mating.
More importantly, has the bitch been cleared for all the health screening schemes relevant to the breed, such as hips, eyes, etc?  Has the stud also been cleared?  Is the character of the bitch and the stud what she wants to reproduce?  God there are so many ads in papers and on internet sites - a huge proportion of the latter is with puppy farms.
Has she looked into the cost of rearing a litter, especially if things go wrong and a c-section is required?  I know that there aint no profit in it ... unless you've got a breed that brings in very high value for pups.
These are things that you should be steering her towards.  It may be that she has thought about it and is doing it correctly, but if relying on paper ads then I doubt it.
Hopefully you'll have some luck disuading her.

All you can do is print off this thread and let her see it.   But I'm afraid that it wouldn't change her mind :(