I took a deposit for a puppy when they were born. I stated that i would vet the people again when they choose their puppt at 4 weeks old. Well i had someone over saturday, they made me feel very uncomfortable. I have since spoke to my family and they have agreed they are not right for our pup. So i emailed the person to tell them this and they said that the emails sent back and forth are legally binding and that i have to sell them the puppy. Is this true??

If you took a deposit for a puppy then yes, as far as I'm aware it is a legally binding contract.  Did you vet them before you took the deposit?

Her yes but i never met the son until this weekend and its him that made me feel uncomfortable with and i amd worried for the safety of the pups as he looks the type that would be rough and smack

But did you take a financial deposit or was it just an email?

Personally, I would have wanted to see all the family members.

Unless your agreement stated the terms under which you could return the deposit and retain the puppy, then the buyers have a right to demand that you sell them the puppy. This is exactly why many breeders don't accept deposits.

I would just return their deposit, stating your reasons why, im sure they wont try to take you to court, I expect they will just go find another puppy.

Yes, just return their deposit. I have not been in that position myself but certainly that is all I would do in the circumstances. A breeder can surely reserve the right to change their mind about a prospective owner up and until the last minute (should something occur that makes the breeder consider them no longer suitable) ? Just as a prospective owner can - in which case they lose their deposit.
How on earth could this be considered a situation where someone could be sued ?! Idle threats.

I stated that i would vet the people again when they choose their puppt at 4 weeks old.

Was this in the e-mail too, when you said (via other post) that you have reserved a puppy for them?

Usually as already said a deposit is a binding contract, but the wording that you will be vetting the people at 4 weeks to me definitely gives you a get out clause here, it really is too much trouble for people to go through the court system but if they did, with this wording you will be ok.

You can argue that the deposit was for the reservation of a puppy prior to vetting. In which case you have every right to say No and return the deposit if you are not happy after the vetting process.

Vetting obviously indicates that this is not written in stone.

Check your wording and your e-mails, I think even legally here you are fine.

Note to self - don't take deposits in future unless you have vetted first. :-)

How on earth could this be considered a situation where someone could be sued ?! Idle threats.

In the eyes of the law dogs are goods just like anything else. So if you've accepted a deposit for a freezer, you have to sell it. Same with a puppy. The law doesn't care if you then find out the buyers are known to break their freezers within a few weeks -or not look after puppies well.

I have since phoned the police, Citizens advice, a solicitor, trading standards and the RSPCA (been a busy morning) They have said yes it can be seen as a contract but i have offered to put them back to the situation they were in before by refunding the deposit so i have every right to say they cannot have my puppy as the puppy belongs to me until i physically hand it over to the new owners

Well, thank you for that - I have always taken deposits once a family has been to visit us and the litter (around 4-5 weeks) and we are all happy. I shall continue to take deposits but I will amend the deposit receipt I give out to state that a deposit will be returned and puppy not reserved if a situation should arise prior to collecting the puppy that deems them unsuitable as owners of one of my puppies. Not sure if that would be acceptable though ?

Edited in view of previous post - just as I thought, returning of the deposit should put an end to the situation and so suing not a viable option !

Did your advisors know the position if the buyers decide to be bolshy and not accept the returned deposit, and instead insist on the puppy (perhaps claiming that they've set their heart on it)?

Yep but the people that were going to have the pup did not mention anythng about having got attached or anything like that just a load of legal stuff

Whatever the reason, how do you stand if they decide to refuse to accept the return of the deposit?

Im not happy for them to have the pup as the son looks like the type that if the pups peed on the carpet for example he would punish in a way i do not agree with

>the son looks like the type that if the pups peed on the carpet for example he would punish in a way i do not agree with

What does that 'type' look like?

I understand that you've decided that you don't want them to have the puppy after all, and want to return their deposit. But that doesn't help me find out if you've been told how you stand legally if they decide that they don't want the deposit returned and want to carry on with the purchase of the puppy.

he looks arrogant and the way he was looking and holding the puppies. Like he has no patience. he was constantly on at them to play as he wanted fiesty puppies but they are 4 weeks old and were sleepy and he stayed here until a time when they were awake and wanted to play

Riajayne just return the deposit through the post - no-one should feel forced into selling a pup to a family they are not at all comfortable with - just be glad you have started having doubts before the pup has gone and not afterwards when it would indeed be too late.

I wouldn't let them have a puppy, especially if you think he may be cruel and i would have thought this is a good enough reason in itself to just send the deposit back and be done with them.  You would be constantly worrying if the puppy was o.k.  Wait and find a decent, caring, loving home for the puppy.

Riajayne should still find out her legal position if these people refuse to accept the returned deposit. If they're savvy enough to know that a deposit is a contract she needs to be one step ahead of them.

I would have thought when she spoke to a solicitor/trading standards etc this morning that at least one of them would have broached the subject of the possibility of the family refusing to take their deposit back should it indeed have any legal implications for a breeder in this situation. The fact that they all advised her it was perfectly acceptable for her to give the deposit back and not allow them to have the pup says it all imo.

>I would have thought when she spoke to a solicitor/trading standards etc this morning that at least one of them would have broached the subject of the possibility of the family refusing to take their deposit back should it indeed have any legal implications for a breeder in this situation.

I wouldn't assume anything. I personally would want to know for certain that every eventuality was covered.

Just send the deposit back. Enclose a letter saying the puppy is not available now, don't get into personal debates etc etc as it will only make the situation worse..leave it at that BUT let it be a lesson.

You do retain all ownership rights but generally taken a deposit means that you believe the purchaser has fulfilled the criteria for the sale to go through and that you believe the transaction can be completed. IE the item is available. As I say let it be a lesson.   A sale doesn't have to go through if the item is not available and cannot be substituted purely because it can't go through.   That is why I have said forget the personal comments and personal reasons for changing your mind.

Too late to say it now but you will have leaned to never take a deposit unless you are happy and you have fully vetted them.

And send it recorded delivery so that they can't claim not to have received it.

I think if you have spoken to a solicitor, trading standards, citizens advice, rspca, the police, and all gave the same advice it is perfectly acceptable to assume that giving the deposit back and not allowing them to have the puppy is a legally sound move !

Oh what a position to be in. I too in your shoes would return the deposit by registered mail and hope they do no more. However if they do you may find you are in a difficult position and become obliged to sell to them. However if they have not yet signed a contract from you it may be possible to word it so that it puts them off. If they have not seen your contract of sale yet then get some advice and make absolutly sure it is leagally binding, it may be your fail safe for the situation.
I have never taken a deposit for a pup and retain the right to change my mind up till the day my babies leave home.
Just as an aside to this why do people take a deposit? after all I would much preferr to do things on trust and if someone backed out at the last minuit then they were obviously the wrong chioce or possibly a situation had changed and then had made it difficult for a new pup, either way the pup is better off with me till the right owner comes along.
Aileen

> think if you have spoken to a solicitor, trading standards, citizens advice, rspca, the police, and all gave the same advice it is perfectly acceptable to assume that giving the deposit back and not allowing them to have the puppy is a legally sound move !

You're missing the point. A determined person might refuse the returned deposit, and until the money has gone from Riajayne's account into theirs then they can say that the deposit hasn't been returned, and the contract still stands. Riajayne will know whether she was given the specific information, so trying to second-guess is futile.

Jeangenie, then let them refuse to take the deposit back - my point is that there is nothing they can do -short of coming round and trying to barge their way into your home, to forceably take the puppy, at the same time chucking the reminder of the balance at you (!)  - in which case you would call the police !

I think you are making a big fuss here. Chances are they will take back the deposit, probably send a few nasty emails and then disappear out of the OP's life forever. However, if they do choose to be awkward about it, the OP just needs to stand her ground. Personally, I think I would be prepared to risk the threat of legal action for the sake of not allowing someone I was not happy with to have one of my puppies, end of.

>I think you are making a big fuss here.

If you think that trying to make sure that the OP has the law on her side and doesn't find herself in the terrible position of having to complete a sale that she's not 100% happy with, instead of assuming and hoping for the best, is 'making a big fuss', then yes, guilty as charged.

>Chances are they will take back the deposit, probably send a few nasty emails and then disappear out of the OP's life forever.

Chances are you're right. But if I were the OP I'd like to know for certain that they didn't have a leg to stand on.

I think we are going around in circles here - she has already sought legal advice and been told it is fine for her to return the deposit and refuse them the pup - this is the crux of the point I am trying to make. If they refuse the deposit, that's their look out. But I shall bow out gracefully now and we can hopefully agree to disagree !

>If they refuse the deposit, that's their look out.

I only asked whether she'd actually been told that by her legal advisors, or whether it's just been assumed, that's all. It's not the sort of thing I'd want to take for granted.

The deposit will be going back and if need be by cash in hand with a witness. I have told them the pup is no longer for sale and i hope thats the end of it. sending cash is the best way as advised by citizens advice as they can refuse to bank a cheque and they posted cash through my letterbox which is sat in the safe so they will get their cash back

>sending cash is the best way as advised by citizens advice as they can refuse to bank a cheque

That was the point I was trying to make. Make sure you get a receipt.

Dont worry i will be

Excellent. :-)

Thank you all for your advice. i really hope i get the outcome im after and i will keep you updated x

Try sending the cash back by Registered Post - you have proof of posting and they have to sign when receiving it.  And this is next day!  Good luck - I had to do this myself once and although I had an irate phone call from the husband all soon went quiet.

Thats a good ideal Ells Bells. Could you send it back like this and 'forget' to tell them you've posted it.  That way they will sign for it, ie, accept it and it will be done and dusted before they realise.  Bit tricky I know and you'd have to be careful of any registered letters coming back your way.

i have just had an email say she  will not accept the deposit back and she will take me to small claims court

Call her bluff.   She does have the law of contract on her side - but you can cite your legal advisors (I hope you have consulted a solicitor, not just a friend who knows a solicitor?) if she does take you to court.    You will have to state your reasons why you feel they are not a suitable family to own a puppy, and hope that the magistrates agree with you.

If they paid their deposit by cheque, did you keep their bank details?   You could always arrange a BACS transfer direct into their account via your bank if you have their account details! 

This is a very good example of why good breeders do not take deposits from people they do not personally know.

No they put the deposit in cash through my letterbox one afternoon

> No they put the deposit in cash through my letterbox one afternoon

Did you give them a receipt?

I think you need to seek legal advice in person and print off all the emails and anything else which is correspondence between the 2 of you so that the solicitor can go through it all and see where you really stand.

If she takes you to court it can take months to get there and they do go through a remedial process first and offer this before in the hope it can be remedied without the need of it going to court.

no because they posted it through the post

> i have just had an email say she  will not accept the deposit back and she will take me to small claims court

If you are thinking sending cash by post then be aware of the following info from Royal mail site:  Make sure you use the correct service when sending money, jewellery or valuable items. If you send money, jewellery or valuables using any other Royal Mail service except Special Delivery(TM) you will not be able to claim any compensation in the event of loss or damage.

Even if your buyer 'signs' to acknowledge receipt of the package this does not mean they have to 'accept' the returned deposit.  They can either return it to you or ask for it to be held by a solicitor until the situation is resolved to their satisfaction.

A breeder should be able to decide who gets one of their puppies but a deposit does complicate things legally.  As a potential puppy buyer I'd be furious if the breeder had agreed I could have one, then backed out at the last moment with no explanation.  I would want to know why I hadn't been vetted properly in the first place and before making plans and getting my hopes up.  A good puppy owner may already have booked time off work, bought bedding and crates, and obviously have got emotionally attached to a puppy arriving on a specific day.  If I suspected that my childs behaviour was the reason I was refused I'd be mortified.  There is no easy answer as both parties may feel the situation is irretrievable but at this point you may as well be honest about your concerns with the family concerned.  To judge a boy based on what he looks like he might do is not really fair.

This has reached the stage where you need to take legal advice from someone properly trained; anything more said on a public forum might be harmful to your case if it ever does go to court.

Good luck.

I phoned the police again and she said they cant me to small claims as i owe them no money, they wont accept the deposit and i have proof that i wanted to return it so im trying to do some research and all i can find for small claims is to claim money owed

I'm sorry, but I don't think the police are the right people to ask.  They deal with criminal law not civil law.  You need to contact a solicitor as Jeangenie says.

try these people  http://www.doglaw.co.uk/phoneadvice.php

> I'm sorry, but I don't think the police are the right people to ask.  They deal with criminal law not civil law.  You need to contact a solicitor as Jeangenie says.

Totally agree!   And I really find it hard to believe that anyone accepted a deposit through the letterbox!  I can't get my head round that way of accepting a deposit.  Even for breeders that take deposits, I wouldn't think that they accepted one until pup was viewed, and folk were vetted.

I have normally exchanged emails and telephone calls with people prior to the pups being born, so have had chance to get a feel for them by the time they visit the litter.

I feel that taking a deposit can seem as if you need to ensure you can "get rid" of pups.  Far better to wait until the day they leave home, when no contract has been entered into, and you can change your mind.  You need to realise that the law sees puppies as 'goods'.