We have a 17 month old entire golden retriever dog (Milo) and would like to get him a friend when he is about two years old. We are looking for something a bit smaller (we don't want to have to buy a bigger car!) and are looking at what breeds might suit us as we only really have experience of goldens.
I like beagles but lots of people have told us they are very unreliable off lead and we do love going for long country walks when Milo is offlead. We also like the look and fun of springers but are a bit worried about their reputation of being house wreckers and hyper (??!! is this true?) We are open to any suggestions but are not too keen on little yappie dogs, terriers or flat faced dogs!
We have two children (6 and 8) who are very respectful of dogs, a house rabbit, and Milo who is very (sometimes too) calm and steady. i take him to gundog training but he doesn't have much drive....(show bred!!) and don't mind something a bit more lively.
We also considered adopting a mutt but some rescues insist on having Milo neutered as a condition, but he has never given us any reason to want to have him 'done'.
PS I work 2 nights/week so dog is hardly ever left alone (although I may be asleep for 4 hrs in the day).

crufts is in a few months :) how about coming along and having a good look at discover dogs?

personally i think the nova scotia duck tolling retriever is a lovely looking gundog :)

Show bred springers aren't nearly as hyper as working bred ones, also welsh springers are really nice and a bit smaller than english. Cocker spaniels are lovely too is you want to stay in the gundog group?

>how about coming along and having a good look at discover dogs?

Even sooner is Discover Dogs at Earls Court in London on 14th and 15th November. :-)

I don't necessarily want to stay in the gundog group althought that is more in my comfort zone if you know what i mean. Just been out with Milo and met a springer owner who said hers was lovely- quite hard work as a puppy but now a calm and easy family dog. I did look at welsh springers but they seem hard to get hold of. I.m not too sure about the cocker look.

i wondered but i thought it might have passed :)

hmmm.

a poodle? (not a standard)
a keeshond?
a whippet?

there are so many i'm actually struggling to think...

the one that jumped out to me, though not common, would be a bavarian mountain hound

How about a corgi, as a droving breed they would enjoy the long country walks.

We got a 'friend' for our Goldie when she was 8 months, we rescued a 6 month approx Border Collie, apart form the fact that this new little one so needed a home the idea was that BC's are so active and intelligent she'd keep the GR on her toes and keep her going in her later years.

They are inseparable and now aged nearly 11 yrs the BC is still young and active, the GR a little slower and a tadge stiff at times but the BC still gives her zest and the desire to play.

So I'd go for a Border Collie any day  :)

Whilst I have collies, I don't often recommend them for pets. (in fact, I never recommend them as pets!)

Someone mentioned the duck tolling retriever. They are stunning dogs and full of fun but not with the same obsessive need for work that a border has.

Although I understand that some people think Collie's do not make good pets, I have to say that our Collie is probably the best of my 6 dogs, she was born and bred on a farm in Wales not good enough to work and so then abandoned.

She was I admit hard work for the first 6 months having no idea of indoors and no training at all, but with care and attention and gentleness and her own intelligence she has proved to be a gem.

Maybe getting a rescue BC is not everybodies cup of tea but I'm sure that a well bred dog can make a good pet as long as the respective owner appreciates that a BC is a little bit different and a little bit special :)

> Whilst I have collies, I don't often recommend them for pets. (in fact, I never recommend them as pets!)
>

I must say I agree, I think too many Collies/Working Sheepdogs are sold into the wrong homes & then give the breed a bad reputation as nervous, highly strung and nippers.

I must say a show bred ESS is a gorgeous looking dog even though they have to have stupid long tails now.  WSS aren't that hard to find.    What about a Field Spaniel, you'd probably be able to get one that's docked too as they are still very much a 'dual purpose' breed.

For the average household, I firmly believe that border collies probably make the worst pets. Yes, there are exceptions to that rule;

(1) A household which will provide the dog with the exercise and mental stimulation it needs (keeping in mind that a BC will think nothing of a hard days hill gather then home to find the tennis ball!).

(2) A BC who, for whatever reason, is lacking the high working drive (not common but certainly not unheard of)

My youngest dog has spent the day chasing the quad and locating singles to bring down some sheep to lower ground - tired? not on your life! He's currently throwing my slipper around outside in the pitch dark!

If by average household you mean 9 to 5 with 10 mins in the garden then the dogs must be 'good' then I agree with you, but then I think that sort of lifestyle in unfair to most if not all dogs.

My BC may not have the high working drive you describe, she has what I call a very high but selective playing/walking/running drive and when she wants she can be very lazy, mind you she is now nearly 11yrs so we allow her this luxury.

Having said that we walked the GR and 4 Shelties plus the BC this morning around the fields by our house for nearly 2 hrs then I bring everybody home and OH does ball and fetch with the BC for at least 30 mins, she comes home and then is happy to potter around the garden and surrounding fields.

I still feel that if you're an active person with an active life then you can manage a BC.

They are not demons.  :)

I have a golden retriever bitch of 7 years and an English Springer Spaniel dog of the same age. They were both bought as adult dogs no longer required by their breeders and are the best of pals. Both were spayed and live very happily together. We are retired and so are with them 24/7 but there are odd occasions when we have to leave them on their own. They snuggle up for comfort in these situations and both are a joy to own.

Cavalier King Charles Spaniel? Ive had Cavvies for a long time (and always from long heart and eye tested lines) and we are about to get as a Guide Dog Pup a Lab x Golden Retriever.  Alfies breeder also had Retrievers and they got on really really well, same calm nature and very good with children, but also loved to go for long walks.  We recently had our home assessment for Guide Dogs and they bought a long a massive 10month old Retriever to see how Alfie would be.  They played in the garden, shared a bowl of water and then flopped in the lounge on top of one another and fell asleep!  Not bad considering they had only just met, the Guide Dog Pup was on the brink of being neutered so full of hormones and was in a strange house.

If you go for a Cavvie, you do have to do research into getting a pup from a breeder who ensures that all the tests are done.

What sex are you thinking because you don't want puppies, if your not considering to have you male done. If you have a male friend, they could fight so i think my suggestion is no terriers as you have a house bunny and a girl. Could you keep them separate when she is in season, until you can get her spayed will you get her spayed? Are you experienced with bitches in season would you know what to look out for, and how to keep them apart?

What about a staffy (not your typical terrier traits)? or a Shiba Inu or heeler of some type. Depends on what 'look' your into or a spaniel

> What about a staffy

that might work well

I am not portraying border collies as demons! I am recognising them for what they are bred for - an intelligent breed with a high working drive. The average household (in my mind) is one who is prepared to give the dogs a 20-30 minute walk twice a day. That's simply not enough for the BC. I am not saying your life is not suitable but I do think it's unwise to recommend this as a pet breed for the majority of people.

The BC is one which is regularly seen in rescue centres for the very reason that they become "unmanageable". They have a reputation for being nervous, destructive, nipping, chasing cars etc etc. This is typical behaviour of a dog who is understimulated and underexercised.

During my trips into town, I often see a border collie being walked around a housing estate almost pulling their owner off their feet - spinning in circles as a car passes. It upsets me greatly as this just is not the environment or the lifestyle which a collie was bred for.

Perhaps we should agree to disagree on this :)

> If you have a male friend, they could fight

Although obviously it's not completely unheard of it is quite rare for golden males to fight. I know several people with at least two males who get on great, and in fact cuddle up together happily. Generally speaking in hounds and gundogs male/male fighting isn't such an issue as it is in working and terrier breeds say.

Duck tolling retriever, I know of 2 both lovely dogs bit smaller than your GR but they seem very trainable infact one is wroking dog for a lady who is deaf and friendly dogs if these 2 are typically I would deffo have a llok. Contact the breed club saw lots at Richmond recently all happy waggy tailed frienfly dogs but love to run im experience albe it limited

What about a sheltie
Jean

What about a Lab

What about a setter, although they are tall, they are skinny compared to a Golden retriever, and love long country walks! I have a Gordon, the biggest of the setters but I know there are folk on here with English, Irish and red and White who could tell you more about temperament etc.

We've had Goldens since 1986 and was joined by a Toller in 2002 (at the time one Golden and one Toller, both males). They got on great together. We also had a house rabbit and cat. Sadly we have since lost our Golden and the rabbit, but all the animals got on fine.

Tollers need lots of 'brain work' as well as general letting off steam walking etc. Tollers take to Gundog Training really well. Come and see us at Discover Dogs Earls Court on the Sunday, we are doing a Gundog Demo in the Training ring and will be in the breed booth too.

You can meet all the other breeds too.

You've not mentioned grooming, is that going to be an issue on top of what you already do with the Goldie? As in are you looking for a short coated dog or does it not matter?
What are you wishing for the dog to be like in the home, calm, busy??
What about towards you as owners?
What about noise? Some breeds are highly vocal, can you put up with that in and out of the house?

Some breeds are known not to be good off lead, but i have to say i have seen some Husky's who have been awesome in one of our parks, off lead, trained well to sit and watch their owner do a work out in the park.. Lol..

Puppies chew, some breeds are known for it more than others, is this going to be an issue?

If there is a breed you really like the look of, i suggest as well as DD is to attend club events, meet owners and breeders, if you don't want a pup some breeders may have an older dog or there may be something suited to you in breed rescue..

The right dog is out there, just don't let the children choose the breed for you, you may end up living to regret their choice.

One word of warning, I was suprised at just how long it takes to groom an English Springer Spaniel. We had owned German Shepherds for many years but felt as we were getting older that maybe we would be better off with a smaller not so dominant breed, hence the Springer. He is a show type and takes many hours to groom unlike the German Shepherds. I can spend an hour every day as his long coat grows at a great pace. He is an ex show dog so behaves beautifuly and stands still up on the table and enjoys the experience, but not for anyone who is short on time. He is very loving and gets on with people children and other dogs so worth the extra time to me. The breeder was not any help in advising us of the work required and when we asked about the grooming she said I just comb him now and then. No mention of the trimming or the stripping. Our fault too, I must admit, as we should have done more homework before meeting the dogs.

thanks for all your suggestions.
I show my golden so am used to some grooming but an hour extra a day is probably pushing it. I guess my perfect dog would be a rescue bitch who has just had her first seaon so she could be spayed/ is already spayed. I have read somewhere that springers in particular can fight male-male.
I'm must say I am quite partial to the springer/ working cocker look, good idea also about the nova scotia- I have met some and they were lovely. i do like a responsive, alert and active dog but I would also like it to be calm in the house. As for noise- it would have a hard time competing with the kids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PS Milo gets 2-3 hours of off lead exercise a day split over 3 outings.

Any views on Beagles?

Why not get another Goldie? A female would be somewhat smaller than your male and at least you know what they are like. My limited experience of Beagles would be don't get one unless you want a challenge and don't want to let it off the lead.

Hi,
Don't post on here very often but we have a Swedish Vallhund, a smallish compact dog but energetic, fun loving and great with the family. Even at 14, she would try to run with our Weims given the chance. May be another option for you?

Beagles, i have briefly looked at them before when looking at making a choice of breed, the fact that they are very vocal put me off. Don't have any personal experience, but maybe people who show hounds maybe able to assist with their character further as to what they are like.. Is BertBeagle still on here?? PM them and i'm sure other Beagle people are on and off the show topics..

In my home there is 3 staffys and a golden retriever, it works perfectly. Paddy adores my sbt's and they are the same with him

Donna x
(and my boysxx)

I have different beagles some you can let off the lead and some you can't. It really depends on the dog and there drive to hunt, my oldest Bert is excellent however he is fully trained and I did alot of obedience and agility with him as a youngster, however one of my bitches is also very good off lead but if she picks up a deer or fox she'll go, you can hear her miles away baying. It is perfectly possible to have a beagle that is good off lead but you have to put in the time and training. Beagles are super little dogs, alot of fun and up for anything! :) If you need any advice just let me know. :)

I have Vallhunds with an Elkhound, lovely breed but can be noisy!!! Also a very busy breed, always on the go, not sure how that would fit in with a Goldie. 

Border Terrier bitch?  We used to have GSD, Patterdale pairing which were best friends (and both bitches) and recenlty we have a Lab dog/Patterdale bitch pairing - love each other.  Sorry been nosey, Midwifery is one of my dream jobs! Jealous! Best of luck with your decision

It is worth looking at all the things you love about Milo and the things you would change if you could - that could then be your blueprint for another dog.  Have you asked at gundog training?  Have you seen a breed there that you like?

It sounds like another gundog would be a good option particularly when reliable recall and sensible with children are two of the things you need to maintain.  They also meet your requirement for a non yappy type!

Size wise, a dog with less body mass and coat will cetainly feel much smaller even if they are of equal height.  What car do you have?  If you aren't doing very long journeys it may not be an issue and many dogs quite like to feel secure in a smaller boot. 

We have a Wire Haired Vizsla (different nature than the smooth version) that would blend with a GR very well.  He would give you all the things you want and none of the things you are hoping to avoid.  In fact I know someone who has just this pairing!!  A well trained springer can be a joy to watch but hard to get to that level although that's one breed where a calmer show bred one may be sensible.  Alternatively have you looked at a working bred GR? 

Finally when you have a short list - do look at the breed club sites for more information but also have a read of any rescue pages too.  This is where you often find the hard truths about how easy these breeds are to live with! :)  Have fun doing your research

 

I agree I have a BC and a cocker but I now want a BC thats mine (ours is definately his) I was not really prepared to adore our BC, I thought my OH should have the dog he wanted and I had my Whistler - love him to bits but my next (our next) will be another collie they are without doubt the most intelligant and gentle dog out! I love Jake to bits.

Bert :-P

Some great suggstions here. My gundog training co-learners have been nudging me towards a working bred goldie as I really enjoy the gundog work but with Milo it's a bit like trying to do formula one racing with a tractor!!! (no offense Milesy) He just doesn't have the drive.

So I am going that way- should I then go for a boy or a girl? A bitch would need to be spayed as Milo needs his balls (he can be shy) but how do i manage her first season? Or are two unneutered male goldens likely to get on?

My friend has two entire goldens, and they are the best of friends. As a general rule I would always advise having opposite sexes, but IMHO goldens are an exception to the rule. In your original post you did mention you wanted something smaller than Milo, so that would point towards a bitch. Do you not have a family member or good friend who could look after one or the other for the first season?

Not all show bred goldens lack the desired drive for a working golden, there are a number of breeders who work and show their dogs. If you admire a lot of Milo's traits, but just feel he could have a little more get up and go, it could be that a dog purchased from such a kennel could be the perfect companion.

<<My friend has two entire goldens, and they are the best of friends. As a general rule I would always advise having opposite sexes, but IMHO goldens are an exception to the rule.>>

Couldn't agree more with Goldiemad. I have had 2 entire Goldie boys together with no problems - the breed in general is pretty easy going, and your laid back boy sounds as if he would tolerate another male. How does he get on with other males in general? Size-wise, I agree, a bitch would be smaller.

<<Not all show bred goldens lack the desired drive for a working golden, there are a number of breeders who work and show their dogs.>>

Again, there are plenty of kennels that both show and work their dogs (my Esme's father is a case in point), so you could look for a pup from parents that show and work. Esme is certainly quite energetic and enthusiastic, but is also the easiest dog to live with - the best of both worlds!

No-one's mentioned the flattie! We have a 11 month old flatcoat retriever who is wonderful - and taking well to gundog training. Strangely, we have just looked at a goldie as a companion for him, as he also could do with a bit more 'go', but we were just too late to get her. I would have thought that they would make a great pair.

When is Crufts Astarte?

Crufts is in March next year at the NEC, but if you're in London in November you can go to Discover Dogs at Earls Court on 14th and 15th, and meet dogs of all the different recognised breeds.

Brilliant i'll go to Discover Dogs, thanks a lot.

thanks trishm!!!!
I have just been pondering the flat coated for the last few days- reading all I can about them. Wouldn't they look lovely together. They are good workers apparently and equally loving. Milo does occasionally meet a young bitch fcr near here and they play/wrestle/cuddle for ages then collapse together. Very sweet. any more people for the FCR? I am driving my husband mad parading all these different breeds before him!!!

Esme's best friend is a FCR, so if you don't fancy another Goldie (which I personally think is the best option, although I may be biased!), that could be a good choice.