Hi
this is a bit of a long story but need some advice please,
a friend has a pregnant toy breed bitch last need she started panting and shivering anyway this morning she was worried so booked an app at the vets for 9am and asked if i would go with her as we got out the car at the vets there was a water sack hanging out took her in as she had a c section before with her last litter (this litter was not planned when at boarding kennels the kennel staff accidentaly put her 2 dogs together and never took her for the mis mate jab and my friend was away for 3 and a half weeks sorry another story lol).

Anyhow the vet nurse asked to keep her in to see how she went just incase she needed a c section my friend agreed and signed the consent form just incase.
So we popped into town to for a coffee and wait for news after 1 hour and 20 minutes my friend rung the vets to check they said she had 2 puppies the 1 pup was born dead and he was huge and breech they had to get him out and another smaller pup born about 20 mins later again breech but only had to help to get his head out.

The vets said to call back again in a while to see if their were anymore born as they were sure another was in there about 12pm they called and said she was ok to come home and see if she could have the other at home as the vet was sure she wouldnt have any problems delivering the next puppy by herself,
so we quickly grabbed a carry case and did a hot water bottle at the house and blanket ready for the puppy again we set off to the vets half way there they rang again and said were we still coming to collect her dog we said of course we were we are just on the way but was stuck in heavy traffic as you know most vets close around 12.30/1pm on saturdays.

We got to the vets my friend asked if she could have the dead puppy aswell to take home and bury so they handed up this poor dead puppy in just some toilet roll i piped up and said we need a box to put him in to carry him in the car so they gave us a box and asked us to take a seat while they went and got the dog, while doing that my friend asked to settle the bill and it came to 134.36 which we were a bit shocked about but neither the less she paid and didnt say a word,
the vet nurse then came into the waiting room and said she is about to have the next puppy and to come and see her in the back they said she was ok to still go home as the water sack was only hanging out (we could tell they justed wanted to close up and go home and thats why we were asked to collect the dog as soon as we stepped out the door of the vets the locked it and shut the blinds behind us).
So we got the dog on my friends knee in the car the poor dead puppy on the back seat and the live pup in his carrier on the back seat and set off.
So my friend asked me to stay for a little bit longer as she was worried about getting the other pup out (we got back about 1pm ) at 2pm i rang the on call vets and said there was still no progress with the puppy and water sack was still having out and the dog was straining and uncomfortable she said if no change by 3pm ring back and then bring her in so at 2.45pm as there was no change got in the car and as we were driving rang the vet and said no change and we are on the was to the surgery as it takes us about 15/20 mins to get there.

Then she told us they dont do out of hours surgery at that vets but at another vets about 35 mins away so anyway we got there about 3.30pm they showed us in did an internal check and said the 3rd pup was stuck and there could possibley we another 2 after that one and she would need a c section my friend agreed and asked to get her spayed at the same time the vet said the dog was very sore and bruised after having the 1st huge pup and didnt think she could get this one out and also she said if she knew the other pup was so big she would have done a c section this morning but considering the 2nd pup came out about 20 mins after the first pup they thought she would be ok.

We were told to come back at 5pm so we went for another coffee and arrived back at the vets at 4.40pm they showed us in everything had gone very well she said there was only the one extra pup in there and again he was huge we got the tablets and went back out to the till were the vet nurse was going to get the bill the vet stayed in her office the nurse then said your bill is 592.73 my friend stood in shock for a few mins and asked if she had got it right as she paid 134 this morning and i said my gundog had a c section with 10 pups out of vet hours for just over 400.00 a year and a half ago,
my friend only had got 520.00 on her in cash and said she would have to bring the rest in on monday the vet nurse wasnt very happy about this in the mean time the vet was in her office im sure could hear all this being said but never came out, we got in the car and she raced off in front off us (the vet).

The nurse gave my friend a receipt with everything on i said i would asked on here if you would expect it to be so much consider one pup was dead and the bitch is a toy breed they had admitted they should have done the c section this morrning when the vets was open not in out of hours and the bill for everything came to a total of 727.09 when my friend spoken to them in the morning after leaving her girl she said if her dog was struggling please do a c section as said the vets said the first pup was huge.
It just doesnt seem right they have charged so much and sent us home with a bitch due to give birth any minute in the car we had left the vets tonight at 5pm.
Of course my friend said her dog was worth it and would pay double but any owner thinks that i hate to think whaat the section would have cost if her dog was a giant breed.
Sorry such a long story any help would be great sorry i babble a bit lol
thanks

Poor bitch, all that running around with her puppies :-(

Anyway, cost wise I guess an out of hours emergency c section and spay with a vet and probably 2 nurses present would be around the 600 mark if a toy breed or not.

So many things have gone wrong here, from the owner not getting the mismate jag (or spay) done when they came back off holiday right down to all the running around with puppies hanging out.

I hope others thinking of mating, particularly cross breeds read this and learn.

Hi Tigger 2
thanks for the reply but neither parents are cross breed dogs the owner was away for 3 and a half weeks so couldnt get the mis mate jab and the kennels never rang and told her they had mated till she came back so it was to late by then for the mis mate jab both dogs were meant to be seperated as the girl was in season.
And on advice from the vets she carried on with the pregnancy as my friend doesnt believe in aborting puppies the vet told her she would be fine as the male is a lot small than the bitch and would have no problems with the pups.
And this sort of thing can happen with cross bred or pure bred dogs its just one of those things with a usless vets (not the vets i use myself).
Thanks

Sorry, I assumed they were crossbreeds because it sounded like the kennels accidentally let two dogs in together, and the pups were huge, very lucky they were the same breed :-)  I'm surprised the vet didn't say that alizine can be used right up to 45 days after mating.

It's difficult for anyone to comment on vet treatment because we all naturally colour our stories. Reading your post for instance I was thinking 1. I would never have had let the bitch have these pups.  2. no way would I leave the bitch and be off having coffee.  3. I wouldn't be taking her away from the vets with a pup hanging out etc etc

Hi Tigger
i understand where you are coming from but as said it wasnt my choice as it is not my bitch or puppies i didnt plan to be there for the birth or to the vets she just rang and asked if i could go with her.
Again not my choice to have the puppies (dont know personally what i would have done but anyway)
The vets in right on end of the town centre so there wasnt any point in me taking her home incase she had to get back there quick.
i had no idea you could get the jab up until 45 days i only have female dogs never owned a male so never had any problems like this before
myself.
And i had not gone with her to any vet apps before today so im just saying what i have been told.
thanks for your reply
ps sorry just re read the message and it sounds like im being rude/harsh sorry just the way i have written the post not meant to sound like that.

> the owner was away for 3 and a half weeks so couldnt get the mis mate jab

Alizin can be administered up to 40 odd days after mating, the Vet should have known this.

thank you i will tell her this i had no idea about this due to not having anything like this myself happen
i only have female dogs so really dont know.
Thank you

price seems about right for after hours. Shame the owner didnt think of the consequeneces, rather than having a spay during pregnancy and putting her bitch, which she seems to care about, through so much stress, risk and distress :( I just dont get some peoples ideas of morales!

I've heard of out of hours c-sections for toybreeds costing £1000 so the cost is not unexpected or necessarily unreasonable. However I am wondering whether this was the SAME vet practice as before, just using different premises, or did they use Vets Now so it wasn't the same people at all? If it was different altogether and the normal vet don't do out of hours, then I'd take it up with the first vet why they didn't ensure the pup was born safely as then the second bill would be separate and probably bring the total to more than it would have been had the first vet done the c-section there and then. (Not sure if I'm mkaing any sense here! Been a long day, sorry.)

I'd also change vets, personally one of my main criteria for picking a vet is that they do all their out of hours work themselves, at their normal premises. We interviewed several last year and rejected instantly those that didn't -I've heard too many horror stories of animals dying when they emergency trip to the vet became much longer than anticipated.

some pretty bad practice going on here if a vets cant wait to get a pregnant bitch in certain labour out of the door knowing full well she was having difficulties.
Looks to me like second vet did the c section which is pretty common in toy breeds to save the life of the pup and possibly the Mum the cost of the bill seems about average and a cost that most breeders are prepared for in an emeregency as breeding dogs anything can happen.
My last litter cost me over £750 just in vets fees and that was without a c section just difficulties during labour and the loss of 2 puppies one of  which we had PTS and Mum's womb  resulting in an infection.
I would be annoyed at the first vets but at the moment the health and wellbeing of the live puppies would be my main concern , when all things are on a more even keel then send in a letter of complaint. OH! and tell her to change vets!!

Roni

There is only one thing I can say to this - CHANGE VETS

dont know about prices of cesareans but i know that my vets chrge £100 for energency treatment and that before you even step in the door and that at the same practice but after hours it changes to vets now.

Yes, mine charge £120 for an out of hours consultation and as I am planning a litter I have recently enquired about costs and it would be over £1000 for an out of hours c section.

c-section prices do vary considerably as you can see from another thread. Certainly this was pricey when compared to my own vets but not so when you consider what others have paid.

I would certainly change vets, dreadful attitude from them IMO. As for not being happy that your friend could not pay in full until the following day, when my girl had a c-section on a sunday afternoon 2 1/2 years ago, before I even mentioned paying, she said to get my bitch and pups home and not to worry about settling up, we could pay the next day.That is the right attitude I feel.
Personally, I wouldn't have left a bitch in whelp at the vets, not knowing what was going to happen. But once a c-section is decided upon I have gone back home (5 mins in the car) because our vets do not allow you in the theatre during the op so we would only be sat in the waiting room getting increasingly anxious.

From another point of view, shouldn't the kennels be implicated in this somehow from a financial point of view?

I know accidents do happen but if the bitches owner had asked for them to be kept apart it should have been obeyed.