New directive from K/C from Jan 2011 all judges before awarding tickets for the first time must ATTEND an open field trial or working test
WHY?
Are they to compare conformation, movement,general appearance, etc etc that is stated in my breeds  Breed Stanard
the working dogs in my breed are totaly different  to the show bred and rightly so as they are bred to do a different job. I am not saying that show dogs CANT do a day in the field many can
So what are these judges going to look at?
And why only newly passed judges? Do the judges we have already know SO much that they are exempt
THOUGHTS PLEASE

Is this for certain breeds?? As many are companion dogs and therefore don't have any working/field tests..

i am not certain but think it is just gundogs

It's for the gundogs.

I agree with it, to a point. I have no intention of spending my days standing in a cold field, on a rainy day, just to watch a dozen dogs trying to find game. I have already spent time out with my dogs at the beating, and spent many days in the field with a 'gun', watching the dogs working, so why should I have to go out and spend time at a trial, especially if my breed has only 1 dog entered at the trial. I have health problems that would flare up if I had to stand for a day in a field. Will the KC pay for my time when I am incapacitated? I doubt it. There are many other people who will have similar problems.

Judges have to go to breed seminars, so why can't they be made to watch a video of the working dog at the same time instead? Make it part of the seminar test. Or arrange for them to see the dogs in a more informal atmosphere. That way they could ask questions about the way a dog quarters the ground, for example, or how it manages to know where the game actually is. I think they wuold learn far more than just going to a trial and watching.

It is for the Gundog Breeds Suejaw, and I for one, welcome it.. its about time :-)

Gundogs arre gundogs.. whether they are Show type or not, they should have the ability AND capabilties of working.. and I dont mean a walk up a few hills on the end of a lead on a beat..

Whether they actually work or not is neither here nor there, but I do feel anyone judging the breeds in the group, should at least have an inkling of what these dogs were originally bred for, hence the new directive.. its been a long time coming.. :-)

conformation is only part of the gundog.. there is also a purpose behind the breeds.. and we should never lose sight of this.

It is also the only group that cannot make up a champion without its Show Gundog Working Certificate, 3cc's does not give us Ch Status.. we have to go into the field and earn it.. so yes.. I think the judges do need to see what a Champion is actually made of.. not just the pretty dog in the ring

I may stand corrected, but I think it also affects the BC (they also cannot make up a ch with a working Cert)

Well to be honest the show dogs should be bred to be capable of work.

Some of the workers may not meet the standard esthetically, but the show dogs really should be both.

I think in some Gundog breeds this could really help judges stop rewarding the overdone heavy animals.

It is interesting that in countries that require a dog to pass working criteria to gain a show title and also working dogs to gain a first quality grading at shows to get their field trial titles there is far less difference between show and working dogs and that I believe to be a very good thing.

It is certainly the case in my breed..

It's going to be a bit of a problem to find enough American Cockers in the field for the judges to go and watch!  From memory there have only been a handful in the last couplle of years (and handful may be a big exageration on numbers :) ) who have done trials, I think one actually got it's full Ch title, but not certain, and a couple of others gained certs but did not have Sh Ch status, don't know if any are currenlty competing.

I'm going to have the same problem as you Lindylou, I have previously gone gundog training with my dogs but sadly I am now able to walk a few hundred yards let alone stand in a field waiting for my dogs to into a trial. 

Do they really think that especially certain breeds that look nothing like the dogs in the field at shows are going to get thrown out as they I suppose are not said to be fit for function?

> Do they really think that especially certain breeds that look nothing like the dogs in the field at shows are going to get thrown out as they I suppose are not said to be fit for function?

This is what I don't understand, so many working gundog breeds differ greatly from the show cousins so would the show cousins fail to be fit for function and if so what happens in the show ring? I'm also not sure if I agree with it only within the gundog group, I agree that dogs should be fit for function but shouldn't all breeds be treated the same?

i think its a great idea Id love to be watching some "anti" potential judge having to watch dogs retrieving live game.....what a hoot!!!and wish theyd do it for my breed at our working trials.

just a thought.............. is there a chance that they will have to lift the docking ban for ALL gundogs ?  because if they are trying to get the show dogs  and the working dogs to look more uniform then surely they would have to dock all of them just in case a puppy from a show litter ended up being worked.

we live in hope ! !

would this not work both ways i.e if show dogs should prove that they can work then should working dogs not prove that they conform to their breed standard -?

Yvonne

> would this not work both ways i.e if show dogs should prove that they can work then should working dogs not prove that they conform to their breed standard -?
>

Certainly that is so in my breed and other hunting breeds in Scandinavian countries.

For me it is just as wrong for a working champion dog to look nothing like it's breed standard.

Why don't the KC extend this theory to all groups .....fine for working and pastoral, working and hounds but how about going to watch a toy dog being a toydog, sitting on someones lap!! As for Terriers, well they have really blown it!!

> As for Terriers, well they have really blown it!!

Ooh I don't know they run working aptitude tests overseas for terriers that entail having small furries in cages in artificial tunnels.

exactly! Earthdog trials in Europe are interesting, although barely much of a trial for the terrier....but at least shows a bit of an instinct.

But would they be allowed here - or would we have the RSPCA complaining about stress and cruelty to little furries?

Certainly scent hounds like mine and Sam's could be tested on blood tracks as they are in many countries where the relevant game is not found or allowed to be hunted.

er...Barb....we already have our own KC working trials for my breed thankyou!!!

I asked the KC if this would be rolled out over other breeds in other groups and was told there are no firm plans at the moment. I think they are planning to see how it goes with the gundogs. Going to watch a working test or field trial might be a step in the right direction but I find that working tests and field trials do not always have much in common with the ordinary working day where a gundog regardless of it's breed might be asked to do any number of tasks from peg dog and picking up dog to beating or waiting with a handler as a stop. Certainly these dogs will be used for many tasks and in the summer many are used for dogging in duties.

What I am wondering is how this will impact on overseas judges? Will they have to attend a British field trial or working test before being allowed to judge or is this for UK based judges only?

Yes I know I was referring to other scenting tracking breeds that don't LOL.