Hi!
I have a maiden bitch I am trying to breed with fresh chiiled semen.  Did progesterone tests on her and she went from 1.5 to 64.6 in 7 days!  Never had this happen before.  So according to the progesterone, she is out and I missed, BUT her vaginal smear showed she was just in late proestrus, not fully cornified, and prob wouldnt be ready til two days from now.  PLUS, she is a little tart with the male I have here, flagging like crazy and holding rock still for him.  What should I do, as the procedure is very expensive!  Thanks

I would use an alternative stud naturally, and if you get pups try the semen on a subsequent litter in 12 - 18 months time, and if you don't then try A.I. next season if the bloods etc seem more in keeping with success..

May I slightly hijack and ask what the levels mean? When I had Ellie pre-mate tested last time they rang to say her levels were 17.3 and she had ovulated - so it sounds like the 'count' or whatever it is rises drastically then falls again?

The levels keep rising after ovulation (doesn't fall until after pregnancy/false pregnancy), but ovulation occurs between certain levels.

Perhaps the use of fresh chilled is because the sperm is imported of from a far away state?

Try her it may be expensive and you may lose out but HEY! thats breeding for you. a good lesson too. Plus vets very rarely get it right, and who know better a man or a dog?

Didn't pick up on the chilled bit, if so has the semen already been taken and shipped, if so there's not much option but to try it.

Can it not be reliably frozen for use on another occasion instead, as this season seems to be unpromising.

Oh I see - thanks!

What you choose to do is up to you all I can tell you is my experience recently.

I will cut an incredibly long & farcical story short.  Had a progesterone test, was told to get her to the stud right away (fortunately I was using my own boy so there wasn't the incredibly long journey to a stud dog).  My boy wasn't paying a blind bit of notice nor was another dog that I drafted in from a very kind lady just in case my young dog was a bit clueless.  The next day I had a smear done & was told that she was nowhere near ready.

One week later, my boy tied with my girl.  Because she had missed on a prior mating I went to get a smear done out of fear that we'd got it wrong (this was 3 days later) & I was told that she was right at the end of her "fertile window".  Boy had mated girl again between times.

I know some people do not like cell cytology, but I think (as always) if you get someone who really knows their stuff then it can be an invaluable guide.

Can't tell you if it's a happy ending for me yet, but I wish you a lot of luck.  Keep us posted.

Well, my vet wouldn't do the surgical insemination, based on the progesterone, saying we'd missed.  BUT, we brought her to an alterate proven dog who belongs to a friend of mine and he LOST HIS MIND over her!  And she was worse than a tart.  She practically had an arrow pointed at her backend for him.  So we did a natural and got a 30 min tie.  2 days later she wasn't nasty, but she wouldn't stand. Hopefully the progesterone was wrong.  I did a saliva test at home and it showed she was out.  NOW, she could have been out all along, but would she and the male behave like that if she was? PS  THe semen would have taken 24 hrs to arrive fresh chilled and we were trying to catch the tail end, so we went with a different stud. 

Well fingers crossed for a litter this time and next time that you can still get semen from yoru first choice.

I'm losing confidence in these progesterone tests. Ellie's showed on day 8 that she had not yet ovulated, but today (day 11) the stud dog owner did a quick exam and said she was open, and the stud dog was very keen, though we only got a slip mating. Now I have to decide whether to cough up another £90 in a day or so, or just go back and try to get a tie in 2 days and perhaps 4 days too.

If the progesterone tests are done by a lab and not by the vet against their "colour chart" I think they are invaluable and we've had 100% success rate each and every time.  A friend had just taken a bitch abroad on the strength of her levels and she is now scanned in whelp.

The old progesterone tests which are done against a colour chart aren't worth the time and money to do as they are far too general.

They were done by a lab, but I'm still not keen to pay £90 again! We got another slip and an outside tie today, so she seems open, she's just not doing her job of gripping on! Perhaps I might get another test if we still don't get a tie on Thursday. I'm also trying to use the Mate Tel thing, but I always have trouble getting enough saliva.

Gosh £90 - that's double what I paid !!   I would hazard a guess and say if she isn't gripping then she is too early i.e. the dog falls out ;))

Well she didn't want to stand up Thursday - not turning round or having a go, just standing still but sagging too much at the knees even with 2 of us trying to hold her up - and she's only a Cav!! So no ties or slips that day. Ah well, we'll have to see!

I paid £18 for the bloods at the vets then, I think it was around £34 for Idexx.  £90 sounds a bit over the top, I could get two tests done for that.

I would always go with the progesterone done by the lab. I had a smear done and the day before I had a progesterone test done. The vet examined the smear and said she had in no way ovulated. Results of blood taken day before, came back and yes her levels had shot up, too high to be any use. I think vets vary in their skill to read these things.