Whilst processing Cocker Spaniel Litters today I refered to the Breed Guidelines from the Cocker Spaniel Breed Club.

Two things in particular caught my eye:

"No bitches should be mated at more than two out of three successive seasons"

To me this implies breeding on 2 consecutive seasons is ok, but 3 in row is not.

and

"No bitch should be mated before her second season and never before the age of fourteen months"

At Champdogs we have always considered 2 years old to be early enough for a first litter and there should be no reason to breed a bitch on consecutive seasons.

Do you consider the rules we enforce on Champdogs to be too harsh and are the guidelines issued by the Cocker Spaniel Club more appropriate ?

Id say not before 18 months in any breed, preferably over 2 for large and giant breeds.

Only bred on consecutive seasons when a singleton pup or very small litter compared the the breed of dogs average litter size or when the bitch has odd seasons (i.e 8 months plus) or the breed is numerically small in numbers and the bitch has recovered sufficiently. 3 Definate no no.

I dont think champdogs is too harsh.

I would expect that members of a breed club to have integrity and the best intentions of their dogs in mind.  In those circumstances I would have no problem with their guidelines.

But if you are talking about the general public, backyard breeders and those with no knowledge, understanding or ethics about breeding, then it would give carte blanch for abuse and IMO would be inappropriate.

Are you going to have individual rules for each breed, or a blanket rule for all?

All breeds are different.  I personally would not breed a bitch under 2 years.  But there never seems an upper limit on a bitch's first litter (other than being under 8 years - I think it's 8 for a last litter according to KC).

My mother has a bitch that went two years between her first & second season.  She now comes into season once a year.  According to CD my mother shouldn't breed from her even with 14 months between litters (if I'm reading this correctly).

I can't speak for the Cocker Spaniel Breed Club, but I would like to think that the breed clubs I belong to that the ethics committee have thought long & hard about their breeding guidelines. 

Personally, i think the rules on Champdog are definetly preferable.  Surely a bitch should have at least one year between a litter and i would never breed on consecutive seasons, even if she had a 'singleton' in the previous litter.  Before i ever bred a litter (from the same breed mentioned) a member from this breed club told me to wait until the bitch was 2 years old.  I also think there should be a maximum amount of litters (imo 3) in a bitch's lifetime.

A lot of breed clubs do limit the number of litters a bitch should have & I agree 3 is a perfectly adequate number of litters for one bitch.

The Cocker Spaniel Club Breed Guidelines have actually now changed due to the KC's decision to make every club accept the same General Code of Ethics. The Club has added two clauses relating to rescue dogs and health tests but we no longer have a clause about frequency of litters or age of bitch when first mated (see HERE) If we did, I would prefer the age to be set at 2 years for a first litter but know it is common practice for bitches in my breed to be mated way before then :-( Breeding on consecutive seasons is a tricky one - I don't think it should ever be done routinely but there is perhaps an argument for it on an occasional basis eg if the first litter was very small for the breed or if the bitch only comes into season once a year, as many do.

Edited to add that the link Mark posted comes from the Cocker Spaniel Breed Council which has different guidelines to the Cocker Spaniel Club.

Do you consider the rules we enforce on Champdogs to be too harsh and are the guidelines issued by the Cocker Spaniel Club more appropriate ?

Of course the breed clubs know and understand their breed. :-) They know when they are fully mature they are the experts on that breed. It is often wrong for us to have a blanket rule for all breeds as they are all different, they mature at different rates.

However, that is fine for the breed clubs to know their own breed and make their well studied rulings, as does the KC, whilst working with competant breeders, but they make those rules on the back of the good breeder. Unfortunately CD lives in the real world. :-( We know that often pups do not come from the good breeder, they come from puppy farms and BYB's who abuse those rules to the hilt.

So I don't know if it is so much should CD not be so harsh, as in should CD also not have a conscience in trying to prevent bitches being abused which the breed clubs and the KC are failing miserably in doing.

Approx 2 years for a first time mating and none consecutive breeding (unless for a good reason) is still the best way to go in protecting bitches on the whole as we deal with the masses, not the few good breeders.

So, IMO CD is better off in staying as we are Mark - for the sake of the bitches out there.

> My mother has a bitch that went two years between her first & second season.  She now comes into season once a year.  According to CD my mother shouldn't breed from her even with 14 months between litters (if I'm reading this correctly).

As far as i'm aware some breeds do only come into season once a year, but i would of thought that would be a little different as a general rule most bitches have 2 seasons a year, so that ruling of back to back matings wouldn't apply if they come into season once a year??

I know with our breed clubs they differ between the GB, Southern and Northern clubs and i'm hoping that they come to some agreement of one set rules for the breed across the board. There was a huge write up about this in our club magazine and also wanting clarification about health tests etc..

So back to the original poster i feel that the requirements CD are putting in place are good ones, as someone has already said it protects the bitches..There is a BUT and that comes down to the breeds coming into season once a year or less. So that would need to be thought about.

No Please leave this rule the same unless there are special curriumstances.

I dont think champdogs is too harsh and Champdogs is very well respected in the Dog World as you do listen to your members feedback etc and take action if there is reason to.

I think the rule is commendable.  As someone who doesn't breed but can see only too well some of the problems within my own breed, I think it's admirable I really do.