Not logged inChampdogs Information Exchange
By yoshi
Date 25.11.02 02:37 UTC
I have an unusally small female pug wich is about 12 lbs and 9 months old.
I also purchased a male pug many months after getting her with the intention of breeding on a one time basis down the road. Little did i know it was possible for a 5 month male pug to breed at that age. I called the vet who informed me it was not likley that he really could. she is only 15 days out of her heat cycle and i can notice a difference in her nipples. they appear to be forming some kind of fullness to them, not her norm. I would think it to early to notice any signs at all. "BUT" there is change in her nipples.
when i asked the vet about some abortion shot that i was told could be given, he told me it was to late if she indeed was pregnant.
I guess what im seeking here is advice anyone can give on this issue.
I love my pug...Im worried with her size if a pregnacy is something she can deal with.
what to expect ect.....help me out guys...............
By philippa
Date 25.11.02 08:03 UTC
Words fail me!!!
She can still be spayed at this stage although the risks will need to be discussed with your vet (preferably a different one to that giving you previous advice?)
Christine
By Jackie H
Date 25.11.02 08:54 UTC
I want to belive this poster by I find the time scale difficult to understand. The bitch is 9 months old and 2 weeks after her season so she was 8 months when she conceved. The dog was 5 months at the time. Yet the poster says that they bought the male pup many months after getting the bitch? And what vet would say a 5 month puppy could not sire a litter, not one I would ever use I hope.
I do hope this is not another of the one post postings on contriversal subjects we seem to have had of late because they are turning me, who used to believe everyone into someone who trusts nothing I read now unless I know the poster.
Please come back on poster and put me right I need my confidence in my human kind restored.
Ja:)kie
Hi Jackie
My thoughts as well which is why I did not spend too much time elaborating on the response - just pointed out one option
Christine
By John
Date 25.11.02 09:26 UTC
I know what you mean Jackie. I cannot believe any vet would be so stupid as to make a comment like that. They would be leaving themselves wide open to being sued!
John
By yoshi
Date 26.11.02 17:38 UTC
Thanks for the info from most of you. Jackie I must admit your input seems to be more of a slam process than a helping issue. If I didnt make my 1st post clear, and my time frame made no sence then let me clarify. My female was born Feb 8,02. that makes her a tad over 10 months. if i was off a few weeks then slam me again. My male was born june 15th.02. I believed from what i have read and heard from friends that a male couldnt produce til about 9-10 months old. I didnt expect it at all. Yes i did seperate them after there 1st lock up. her heat cycle began Nov 1st. it wasnt til nov. 12th that the incident occured. I did call the Vet who did inform me that it was not likley she would be pregnant. Guess that makes me stupid for believeing what a trained professional told me.
It wasnt til a few days agao that i noticed the change in her. thats when i called and inquired about this shot i had been told about from a friend. Once again i called my vet who informed me that it was to late. Guess that once again makes me stupid for taking the word once again from a professional.. I will have her tested in a couple weeks through lab testing, i will know more at that point.
I came to this group for advice, i didnt expect to be feeling like scum. My intentions were all in good faith.
By Jackie H
Date 26.11.02 18:06 UTC
I did not see how I could help, it has happened and no words of mine will change that. You said you purchased a male many months after. The problem is in the fact that I dont consider 4 months to be many and you do. I will re-read my posts but apart from not being sure if it were a genuine post, I don't recall <slaming> you.
Will have a look and if I think an apologise is due you will get one.
Ja:)kie
Edit
I have re-read my post and can't see, in view of the sort of posts we have had of late, that I have or should have caused you any offence. To me the time scale did not add up and I still find it hard to understand why a vet would give you such silly advice. All I requested was that you should re-post and explain in more detail, that you have done. The only advice I can give you is to take it up with the vet in question and see if he will offer you his service free for the welping to make up for his incorrect advice.
By mandmpuppyranch
Date 07.02.03 06:29 UTC
If You seen them mate she could be peg. somertimes they go threw a false peg . man, did u know a pug usually has to have a c-section? She is very young and very small but your worries have just begin . Pugs also smore times than not dont nurse their young. and the vet im sorry but i would find another that knows about pugs. i am a pug owner and breeder.. Did u know if they are dropped or hit there head their eyes can pop out? that their genes carry blindness, hip dys. and alot of other generic diseases? i just thought id throw that in, it is important to know.if u breed pugs u better be ready to play mommy. feeding every twop hours isnt what its cracked up to be.
By sam
Date 25.11.02 10:56 UTC

yoshi....do you have Gos as well? Intriguing emaill addy.
By sam
Date 26.11.02 20:35 UTC

Still curious yoshi!
By philippa
Date 26.11.02 21:24 UTC
sister sam, CONGRATULATIONSxxxxx
By yoshi
Date 27.11.02 04:25 UTC
Sam..........yes. Gos as well
By sam
Date 27.11.02 20:43 UTC

Do you hunt your Gos? I have a Harris female but think Gos are so beautiful.

I will take your post on face value.
Your male may have inpregnated your bitch, did you catch them having mated?? If so, that is when you should have had the 'morning after shot'.
On the other hand if you saw no mating (doesn't mean they didn't) then the changes in her nipples you describe are quite normal in a bitch that has been in season, and is experiencing some degree of Phantom pregnancy. Nature has designed bitches to have these, as in the wild if the pups born to a pack were orphaned, or bitch had little milk, other bitches would be able to help/take over feeding the pups. All bitches experience phantom pregnancy to some degree, but mostlyit is mild signs (slightly larger nipples, being a bit quiet) and most owners don't notice.
You could have your bitch scanned at5 aproximately 28 days from when the mating took place, or has been believed to have taken place, and if she is pregnant, then depending on vets advice you could have her spayed.
When you say it is two weeks since her season, do you mean two weeks since the end, as she would have been mated around the secon week of her season, so would, if pregnant be around 3 weeks now.
At 3 weks, and experienced vet can feel for the presence of pups. If you take her to the vet and he can de3finately feel some, then you could have her spayed earlier. If he can't feel anything, then you can opt for the scan a week later.
By sylvieL
Date 25.11.02 12:19 UTC
I cannot believe any vet would say it's not possible to induce abortion at 15 days. It is indeed possible, there is a new product (brand name Alizine here in France) that's even better than the usual treatment as in fewer possible complications, and you can give it up to 35 or 40 days of pregnancy or so.
It's an injection, has to be done two days in a row. One side effect is that she might come back in heat earlier than expected, but no increased risk of infection or whatever. I urge you to do it right now, for your poor puppy bitche's sake, she is in no way ready to have babies, still being a baby herself. A 12 lbs Pug is indeed small, even for 9 months.
Oh and find yourself a new vet.
Wanted to add : you can do the treatment whether you are sure she is pregnant or not, there is no risk in doing it although not pregnant (in fact it is used as an uterus "flusher" in case of infection).
By Jackie H
Date 25.11.02 13:44 UTC
I note that there has been no response from the original poster, may be they are at work all day, hence the inapproprate mating.
Jackie

My vet told me that shot you give to abort pups is giving no more than 48 after she has been bred,(probably different there)and it causes them to be real sick from it. They end up throwing up, the poops, just become sick and can also come into heat earlier. In my opinion I would either just have her spayed now, or allow her to have the babies. Many animals have had babies on their first heat and were able to care for them, I personally don't agree with it. Since she is bred and if u do decide to allow her to have the babies she more than likely will need a c-section being so young. I would get x-rays/ultrasound done on her just to be sure.
They actually give shots to abort pups up to 40 days on, thats sad. The dog should have them aborted as soon as possible. This is just my own personal opinion. I personally never knew that a male dog was fertile at 5 months old. I know that they may know what they are doing well the act anyhow. Could her teats have looked more pronounced because of being in heat?
By Zoebeveridge
Date 27.11.02 12:35 UTC
Jackie,
Just had to say that you say say exactly what i think! go girl!
Oh , and heaven help me if im ever on here being stupid!
Z x
By gina
Date 26.11.02 20:20 UTC
My shih tzu had a phantom pregnancy 3 weeks after her first season. Let us hope your little un has one too??
By tam97470
Date 29.01.03 00:16 UTC
My mom has 2 female pugs and when they both went through there first cycle they both experienced the same effects as your female pug. The vet my mom goes to says that it is most likely a false pregnancy. So I dont think you really have anything to worry about.
By Jane Ashwell
Date 06.02.03 22:03 UTC
Hope she isnt, but if she is, change your vet (do that anyway) and contact a couple of pug breeders. You may get some grief, but someone, somewhere will take the time to offer useful, breed related advice. Good luck
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