Just come back from ringcraft and was shocked by something that was said. Some people were on about getting rid (exact quote) of some of their dogs, aparrantly they were wanting a sort of clear-out, getting rid of their current show stock to start anew. I was astounded about how they talked about their dogs, like they were just stock, talking about their value in rosettes, it was clear that they were only being used for showing. Have many other people experienced this sort of talk at shows? I could never 'get rid' of my dog if it wasn't doing well in the ring.

Thats happens alot sadly, some people who show dogs the dogs really are just show dogs to them. Not pets like mine and yours, I try not to think about it too much. I could never rehome one of mine, once they are here they stay and I had dogs long before I started to show!

shocking but it does happen :( . About a year ago we took our male to a ch show, a man came up to my husband, and my husband thought he was asking about stud work, as my male was young we gave the man our details and told him to call us nearer the end of the year. When the man left, friends and other exhibitors came over to us, tell us this man wanted to buy our male from us to show him, and that if the dog did not do well then he would put him into rescue! And if he does do well he will travel the whole of uk, show after show, then once the dog was 6 years old he would then put him in rescue! I was totally shocked, and this man called me 2 days after the show and told me what he really was after, no stud work just wanted my dog! I ever so polite told him to bog off! :)

this man called me 2 days after the show and told me what he really was after, no stud work just wanted my dog! I ever so polite told him to bog off!
That's disgusting, I don't know whether I would be as polite as you! If someone said that to me I would report them to the breed club and make sure that people were aware of such a person so that they couldn't do that to someone elses dog. Do the breed clubs do anything to try and stop this? They aren't doing anything illegal but I wonder if you name and shame them then they would get the message?

i was told that the breed club know, and it seems most of the breeders know of this man too, i was really shocked that this man is still doing what he does despite most knowing :(

> Thats happens alot sadly,

It happens in other canine pastimes, obedience, agility, and real work spheres too, and I expect in other livestock fields, that is how people are.

I still think it is the minority though.

It happens with horses too :-(

Most people have pets that they love and coincidentally do well at competitions or shows with, but a minority buy an animal to compete with, it might as well be a set of golf clubs or a bike - if it doesn't do well or outlives it's usefulness it gets replaced by a newer, better model.

OH and I do dressage, neither of our horses are going to set the world alight, but we would never exchange them for a 'better' one, they are part of the family.

It always bugs me when I hear the expression, 'pet owners', in tones.

I am proud to be a 'pet owner'. Showing, obedience, etc have all come way after being a pet, they are simply activities that both my pet and I enjoy.

Quite common place in the pedigree cat show/breed world.

> I still think it is the minority though.

I tend to agree, particularly after talking to other exhibitors at the Malvern Showground.  Main discussion was "how many dogs do you have?"

Several that I spoke to had a few oldies, and said that they couldn't have another show dog, as they were at their "quota."  So they definitely kept dogs past their show best.

I kept a boy from a Jan 2008 litter that I loved for type.  He has gone over size for show.  Them's the breaks :-)

I couldn't let him go, although I realise that some could.  He has superb temperament, and is a complete love.  He is my pet!

Definitely in the minority I would say - certainly in my own breed most folks keep their quota of 'passengers' - I think the view of dogs as 'livestock' was something that happened more in the past and when dogs were much more likely to be kept in kennels and therefore not sharing our lives so much - now that most exhibitors live with their dogs they are much less likely to pass them on if they do not win.

Yvonne

Gemini05 you'll have to PM me details of this man.
I have noticed it to be quite high in some breeds, they run on puppies and if one doesn't do as well as they would like they sell it. I question are they not attached to the dog/pup that they are selling?

A dog should be for life not just for the life of the show ring.

> they run on puppies and if one doesn't do as well as they would like they sell it.

I rather think running on is a different matter.  The intention was always only to keep the one that turned out as hoped.  whether someone runs on only until 8 - 12 weeks or 6 months is not relevant.

Also if a person who is getting older (otyherwise most people over 60 woudl never have another dog) but still wishes to be able to influence the direction their breed is going retires some of their dogs to pet homes for their sake after they have made a contribution to the breed so they can continue a little longer is not being purely selfish.

Many of our breed doyennes do this certainly both of my main breed mentors occasionally allowed some of their dogs to go to select homes when they were retired from breeding or show, including top champions, but always with the dogs best welfare uppermost.

At this present moment I couldn't do it, run on or part with any dog I ahd kept past the baby puppy stage, even though I had several offers of a good home for some of mine over the years from long standing owners of my breed.

At the moment our rescue are in the great situation of not having any dogs in, and there are people desperately waiting for an older dog of the breed which they love.

> It happens with horses too :-(

I've noticed that too - I can understand people selling off a youngster after they have schooled it and moving on to school another, but its the idea of folk selling on horses that are much older because they can no longer fulfill their potential that I can't understand, if these horses are as loved as they say then why don't they deserve a pampered life in their twilight years?

As Brainless says I think its different if you are breeding and need to put some of your oldies into selected retirement homes, I couldn't do it, but I can understand why some breeders would. If they didn't then they would end up with a huge number of dogs that they possibly couldn't cope with and we have seen the horrific results of that over recent years. However, sending unsuccessful or older dogs to rescue is just not acceptable in my book. When they have done their best for you then you should do your d@mnedest to ensure they have the best retirement home you can find for them if you are unable to keep them yourself. JMHO :-)

>> It happens with horses too :-(

Our local riding school has a yearly cull of horses which aren't useable anymore, therefore not earning them any money, be it because they are old or injured. Poor things spend their lives working hard to pay their way then get shot when they cant do it anymore.

I agree with the others the guy sending ex show dogs to rescue is disgusting. This is a prime example of when showing gets too serious, the dogs welfare should always come first!

it wouldnt surprise me if there wasnt alot of people like that on here,
but yes i know of a few
i meet a peke breeder at a companion show(she left early because "all the dogs here are pets"!!)

she wanted to get rid of a bitch, she was only 7 months, but she got a third and all her dogs(or should i say stock) get 1st. she justified it by saying her eyes are alittle on the small side!!!!

its asif some people have show dogs to make them selves look good. i dont really understand it.

I know quite a few people who do that, but most of my close friends think like me, the dogs are part of the family, proper 'pets', and only show dogs as a 2nd thing. I couldn't even get rid of my Yankee who's never beaten another dog at an open show in 7 years (even if hubby would let me!) though I must admit I wouldn't have another if it was up to me, he's my Georgie-fluff even if he's a useless show dog. :-)

yeah, i totally agree, i only show my girl about once a month. and if she came last every time i would still show, probably not as much as once a month, but i would still show.

and in my breed all the puppies are sold as pets with the potentail to show.

Yes it is shocking that this minority of people are so blase about rehoming dogs which aren't winning as much as they would like but its probably a good thing as they're obviously better off elsewhere and at least they can have a chance of a more loving home with someone who appreciates them.

Very strange if it was decent show folk for two reasons I can't imagine real dog exhibitors getting rid of "current show stock".. makes no sense really nor  talking in "rosettes".

Who talks in rosettes.   Not being funny if they were decent show folk perhaps you misinterpretated their intention and if it was not so decent show folk they I have no clue.

I've noticed that too - I can understand people selling off a youngster after they have schooled it and moving on to school another, but its the idea of folk selling on horses that are much older because they can no longer fulfill their potential that I can't understand, if these horses are as loved as they say then why don't they deserve a pampered life in their twilight years?

Comparing horses to dogs in this way has no bearing!!

Who is to say an older horse in its twilight yrs is not going to get that pampered home with the next owner.

Horses can live till they are around 30!    and  the one thing an old horse needs is to  be ridden.. you turn out and retire an older horse and you are doing it no favours...old joints need to be kept ticking over, along with stimulation of the mind.

You watch an old retired horse out in the field day after day, you can see they deteriorate in front of your eyes!!

You have a competition horse that has served you well, you outgrow the horse in both size and  ability.. why is it wrong to move said horse eon to a new life with a new owner, who is within that horse/ponies capabilities, it does two things,  gives a new owner the invaluable experience of "learning " and the horse/pony the opportunity to carry on doing what it loves best,   albeit at a lower level

If we did not buy these old school masters, my daughter and thousands like her would never get the opportunity to learn to ride and compete.

Horses/dogs/cats  or any livestock for that matter will mean different things to different people, it does not mean they have a lesser life,  working dogs are retired to pet homes after they have served their purpose,   so why is it different for show dogs...

Better they are in a loving one to one home getting individual attention, than being left to  fester in the kennel.

Dont get me wrong I would never own more dogs than I could keep for life, they are part of my family.

Same with the horses, we loved and cherished them, but we did move them on when we had outgrown them.  its where you move them to thats maters... a good home is a good home,  and I have witnessed my old ponies  giving other young children a fabulous life within the equine world...

My daughters first pony was 19 when we got him, we where his 5/6 home..we where also his last, but that was due to the fact he died with us... but if he had remained in the same home for all his life, the pleasure  that would have been missed by all the children he  taught to ride would be  sad to see.

This subject comes up regularly on this forum.

When you keep several dogs it is very nieve to assume that every dog is better off with you and in a pack when, in point of fact, several people keep too many dogs IMHO for each and every dog to reach it's ultimate fulfilment.

When I breed a litter it is common for me to state that I'm not selling a puppy 'yet'. Letting the pup go to it's home ( for what ever reason) at 5 or 6 months is often more for the pups sake than mine. Not all dogs suit a pack life and if they could talk, I expect that there are thousands of dogs belonging to exibitors, who would ask for an owner, a bed, a fireside - all of their own.
I'm fed up with people assuming that keeping a large number of dogs, until they die, in kennels, dog rooms, cages or in someway sharing an owner- is preferable to a single dog living it's life out with one kind doting owner.
It depends on the dog surely - not how you feel.
I've been to visit one of mine this morning who went to a friend at 18 months - she constantly struggled for attention, supremacy and spent much of her time tense and irritable - as did the rest.
She went for a happy relaxed life - not to suit me.......she was infact one of my biggest winners in 2008 but her home life was unhappy and someone else could remedy that.No more shows for her, no breeding just a happy life as an 'only child'.

I know this is not the same as 'a clean out' but many state the concept is wrong and the sweeping generalisation is just that....sweeping!

Sorry full of typos no time to edit :-(

I know this is not the same as 'a clean out' but many state the concept is wrong and the sweeping generalisation is just that....sweeping!

I agree tooolz. I would find it very hard to rehome a dog/bitch for the reason that if I didn't, I would not be able to breed another litter, not have enough space etc, but I have rehomed dogs where it was obvious they would be happier living as single pets for whatever reason. Or if there was a problem getting along in a pack. The dogs have to come first, not our own feelings. I'll never forget a Cavalier I had, he was bullied by one of my other Cavaliers and so when my mother in law's old dog died and she wanted an adult dog, I gave her this Cavalier. It was a match made in heaven because they suited each other so well. I saw him very frequently and he'd be happy to see me, but each time I was about to leave, he would make a point of walking over to my MIL and sitting as close to her as only possible, like he was saying "I'm NOT going back home with you again!"

I have a friend, very successful in her breed, who has a strict limit to the number of dogs she will keep, so she will rehome ones she has finished breeding with, and that includes having rehomed Champions. She is VERY particular about the homes, and I can see her point. By finding perfect pet homes where the dog will be on its own or one of just two or three at most, she's giving the dog a wonderful retirement and making sure she has no more dogs at home than she knows she can easily cope with.

I think to a certain extent a lot depends on the breed as well though. Malinois get so attached to one person (and usually one person only, the rest being accepted but not the same) that it would be much, much harder to rehome an adult one of them after a few years.

It's not all black and white, indeed. What I DON'T like though are all the cat breeders that will buy in a kitten and already on day one say "I'm keeping this one for 2 years max" (sometimes even less) -that to me makes no sense, you don't know what the future holds.

When you keep several dogs it is very nieve to assume that every dog is better off with you and in a pack when, in point of fact, several people keep too many dogs IMHO for each and every dog to reach it's ultimate fulfilment. Ditto Tooolz but nothing new there :-)

I'm fed up with people assuming that keeping a large number of dogs, until they die, in kennels, dog rooms, cages or in someway sharing an owner- is preferable to a single dog living it's life out with one kind doting owner.  and again.

The flip of the coin in those that can't "bare" to part with the dog or the puppy that was run on for a couple of month they bought or bred that is not up to scratch for the show ring BUT are quite happy to breed from it and produce OK puppies.    Thankfully there are those few who love, cherish and protect the breed.

I really don't even know why theses sweeping " I am a better dog owner" statement , threads start half the time. 

I have been to homes where people keep upward of 10 dogs, not my ideal of a happy life either but I don't judge. I am so grateful at times we have some intelligent people in most breeds that have the determination to protect the breeds existence.

Blue there was no misinterpretation I assure you. They actually offered me one of the dogs, they were telling me how she had qualifyed for crufts, talking about her show career nothing about her character, they offered her me for free and this is the exact quote ' for you she's free, the only thing though I want litters out of her because she's tailess' Does this not sound a little bit irresponsible? Now I do keep the same breed and I have talked to them before at shows, they have seen how I handle my dog and so I guess it was a bit of a compliment that they did offer me her but the statement about breeding seems a bit dodgy to me. They were then telling me how they were giving away another bitch that they own, when asked where does the new owner live they did not know but this particular dog owner had 14 other dogs at their kennels!.  Maybe its just me but I would not rehome my dogs in this method plus I am quite anti keeping dogs 24/7 in kennels.

BUT to even think there are loads around like your example to me would be like tarring people with the same brush based on one careless person. I would imagine this is a rare example of people in the dogs to be so careless.

Not got a clue what you mean about "tailess" and how this would affect offspring or how you managed to get yourself into a situation that you could even be offered a dog from them.    How does a conversations go from, " hello or good evening" at ring craft to " do you want a free dog"...

Most people even if they do " pet home" the odd one will wait as long as it takes for the " perfect" home to come along a home that they will be offered one to one loving new owners.

Surely you using a bit of common sense could see these were just not the best dog owners.  Not all people who smoke , smoke drugs, and not all people who drink , drink till their drunk.  :-)  we have a huge amount of bad parents to that quite happily give kids away.  I don't really see the point of the thread we all see the odd person in all walks of life that are not the nicest of people.  I think the last thing we need right now is people generalising about dog folk when all I know are excellent dog lovers and breeders.

> I think the last thing we need right now is people generalising about dog folk when all I know are excellent dog lovers and breeders.

=======   BLUE FOR PRIME MINISTER ========== :-)

> Who is to say an older horse in its twilight yrs is not going to get that pampered home with the next owner.

Which is exactly what ours is getting too :-D We got her earlier this year and she is 18 and just wonderful, but she is staying at the same livery where she shares a field with her 'best mate' who is 30 years +.

> If we did not buy these old school masters, my daughter and thousands like her would never get the opportunity to learn to ride and compete.

I know you are right but I just think it is quite sad when I see adverts for old horses as companions etc saying outgrown or well-loved, 5* home needed etc, I don't know how people can sell them on but that has more to do with my soft heartedness than anything else. I know I could never breed as I would end up as one of these old biddies with 100 cats and dogs living with me :-D

know you are right but I just think it is quite sad when I see adverts for old horses as companions etc saying outgrown or well-loved, 5* home needed etc, I don't know how people can sell them on but that has more to do with my soft heartedness than anything else

I understand too, and know people who never moved on up the horse ladder and still have the one horse they learnt to ride on.

But practicality sometimes takes over, and if you are having to pay livery and you are competitive , you simply cant  afford to keep all your previous horses..

Again as long as they are  in loving homes, thats all that matter!!

LOL classic. I think some of us would love me as PM for a few months but a few may not.  Crack of the whip and all that ;-)

> I think the last thing we need right now is people generalising about dog folk when all I know are excellent dog lovers and breeders.

I do not believe I have posted any statements than can be accused of generalisation. The purpose of this thread is to discuss similiar experiences of this nature. It is obvious that the practioners of such views are in a minority.

With regards to horses, it is a different matter than dogs. I have recently just lost a horse, a schoolmaster who was bought for me as my first pony, he was sold as 14 but was in reality around 17. When he was retired he stayed with us. He was in retirement for 8 years, taken out for lead rope walks and fussed by our friend's kids. We have sold horses before, because like the other posts said, sometimes it is not practical but we could never get rid of this old fella, he was a very special pony, bless him. When we have sold horses before the potential owners are always vetted, we have refused to sell ours to people whom we believe are not suitable e.g ridding not up to scratch etc. We have been begged before to sell a horse by a particular person, they were willing to pay much more than the asking price but we still refused. It's just the way we opperate, many people think we are overcareful however.

> It is obvious that the practioners of such views are in a minority

On this board, mid afternoon and with just a few contributors...but if it makes you feel better than me.....enjoy :-)