What would you advise someone who was working within a Grooming Salon where one of the Groomers they work with (often left in charge) is completely incompetant and abusive?
Stories including dogs falling off tables and jumping out of the bath (due to leaving neck restraints too loose), yelling at and hitting (punching very hard/shaking them) for whining, not standing for grooming, peeing/pooing on the floor etc... dragging them around through temper with just back legs touching the floor. At one point a little pup was sent out limping after only coming in for a few minutes for a quick feet, nail and face trimming and the owner upon calling on their return home was told the pup was fine while in the salon. Needless to say, they never called back or returned with their pup, but also never did anything about it. :( Dog go out with red necks through being allowed to choke themselves or through being handled roughly by the Groomer.
This is appaulling, but how can this be stopped? Presuming they would need to gather evidence, but it makes it more difficult, as they are all related. The partner has made a report to the RSPCA without leaving details, but if found out the family would probably cause uproar over it. The disturbing thing is that the person reponsible has been doing this for 10+ years. It is sickening and upsetting the person having to deal with it, but also if they quit, how will it be stopped?

Somebody has to stand up to this be person!
A dog has no voice and relys on 'grown up' behaviour from humans who should care enough to protect them, and not worry about hurting someones feelings in the family.
This is surely akin to child abuse, should people keep quiet to protect others then as well.

Karen :(

Hi Karen, while I understand that dogs have no voice, this person is extremely upset, often comes home crying and is extremely stressed out by the situation and doesn't want to allow this to continue, hence asking for advice. They are hanging in there, because they don't want to leave and have the dogs continue to suffer. I appreciate this is upsetting but I am looking for advice to put this to an end quickly and not emotional response that doesn't help the dogs. Also while I agree that no animal deserves this treatment, it is not really comparable to child abuse. Thanks.

I'd say that reporting to the RSPCA as has already been done is probably the main way of tackling it.At least if an inspector visits it might scare the groomer a bit but if its been going on for so long its unlikely he/she will change their ways-it does sound like they're in totally the wrong job.I would have thought customers would be concerned if their dogs were nervous of going in which they must be.
Years ago I went to a salon for tuition and I was so shocked at the way the dogs were treated I didn't go back.There was a toy poodle being groomed and the groomer was pulling on the dog's sheath to make it yelp then laughing,a cocker being dematted and every time it yelped from being pulled too hard it was hit over the head and one of the groomers boyfriends who had just collected a poodle said he had hit the dog over the head with a bit of wood as it went for him when he picked it up.I felt like stopping the owners as they walked in with their dogs but couldn't.I walked out crying and did report them to the RSPCA but whether anything was done I don't know.These were City and Guilds qualified groomers too,it was absolutely horrific.I also worked for another groomer who hit dogs if they moved but didn't believe in using any kind of restraint,I was only there about 2 weeks before I left.
I can see its going to be difficult for this "whistle-blower" but she needs to tell as many people as possible and hopefully stop this groomer from working with dogs again.

Rather than involve outside authorities, talk directly to the boss.  They may not know or imagine what goes on when they're not there..... :(

>Rather than involve outside authorities, talk directly to the boss.  They may not know or imagine what goes on when they're not there..... 

Hi Westcoast,

I'm on the understanding that the owner is the parent of said groomer and can also be a little rough with the dogs, but nothing like the groomer in question. I'm also sure that as the owner is barely there for half a day and leaves the running of the shop up this person, they will not do anything about it as it will inconvienance them far more than turning a blind eye, but cause a very awkward situation. I do know that the groomer does not react this way when the owner is there and also if they feel they will get caught i.e. will hit a dog while the owner is out in the shop, but will refrain from yelling at it, so as not to raise suspision. This person quite clearly has no paitence and takes their frustration out on the dogs, but quite obviously knows it is wrong due to the former behaviour. They have come close quite a few times to being caught in a very small space of time, so quite how they have gotten away with it for so very long is just hard to believe. :( This is all observed over just the space of a few months, so I dread to think. The groomer is the same with very young pups to geriatric dogs. Dogs having nose bleeds is a common and horrid occurance to witness as well. :(

Dreadful but if the groomer doesn't behave as badly when the owner/parent is there, then there is some degree of fear there?  I think that would be my first step.  Not a good situation at all. :(

well i think id end up being sacked the first time i see this person doing things like this , as i would have gone off my nut they'd be lucky if i didnt turn and grab them and drag them by the throat and give them a whiping with a dog lead,

im sure the wise ones here will help you with how to deal proper with this sad person ,
affraid im not a people person and i cant stand people like this one bit i would honestly want to smack them, not right i know but i would probebly loss it if they did the things you say infront of me its making my blood boil just thinking about it Arrrr,

I've got to admit I think I would have left by now if I'd seen this,I just wouldn't want to be associated with it.

[it is not really comparable to child abuse. /b]

so would you be ok if your child was treated this way by say a school teacher ??

i cant see the differance myself,

maybe your friend could get the contact details of the owners and inform them of whats going on with their dogs behind closed doors,

even an annoumous letter or phone call it would set alarmbells ringing to them ,

yes id have left i have a wild temper at thing like like this and i hate to think of what id say to this person before i left, but i know id make dam sure all the customers knew EXACTLY why i left and what was going on,

Name and shame them,

> turn and grab them and drag them by the throat and give them a whiping with a dog lead,
>

>

and that would make you no better than this person described by the op.

I'm dealing with a similar situation myself.  I have had to ask myself some very very hard questions about someone I'm working for on a casual basis, and trust me, it isn't easy.  I'm not sure about the UK, I should know really having only just left, but I'm assuming it is the same as here in Aus, unregulated?

I once was in a similar situation :(

I worked for a groomer doing the bathing and brushing.  There was only me and the owner and she was a terrible bully, mostly to me but also to some of the dogs.  She didn't like what I called the little 'foo foo' dogs and if she didn't like the owner, then she didn't like the dog.  She never hit them but was always rushing the de-matting making it painful and if the dog fought back it was described as nasty.

I often went home in tears as I found it so stressfull but it never seemed enough to make a complaint about.  Just before she left (she sold the business) I thought she had killed a golden cocker.  I was bathing another dog so had my back to her. I turned around and she had this dog strung up so tight it was on tip toes, whilst at the same time had her hand on the back of it's neck.  It was one of those frozen in time moments as I saw the dogs tongue hanging from it's mouth totally blue.  I ran over screaming at her to get the dog down but she just stared at me. I unchained it and it just fell to the table, I shook it to bring it round but nothing. I said to her that it had stopped breathing and she just shrugged her shoulders at me. I started pressing on the side of it's ribcage not really knowing how to do it properly but somehow the dog came round.

I ended up not reporting it as I just had no evidence and I knew she was gone in a few days anyway.  It is difficult to complain when it is just your word against theirs. How do you get the evidence without getting some kind of recording equipment in there which probably isn't legal anyway. 

Maybe an anonymous letter to the owner from a 'client' might get it addressed.  I'm sure if they felt their business was being damaged by it they would be lesss complacent.

Sorry i'm no help here as don't have to use a groomer but reading these stories i'm shocked at what goes on.

Maybe if the RSPCA got a few calls from different people they'd respond quicker, are there others who know whats going on as well?

and that would make you no better than this person described by the op.


i do know this honestly i do but it makes me SO Mad and upset ,
i have a hard time getting my head around the fact that People can do this and i mean any people who harm Animals in anyway Why do they do it? its so cowardly ,
i would just want to treat them the same as they have treated the Animal and see how they feel how would they like it im sure they wouldnt not one bit , yet they feel it ok to put their hands on an animal and cause pain and fear to it,
its so unfair that some people dont care about the fear and dread that they place on the animals, it breaks my heart realy it does, 

this person sounds as if they should go and get help!

i would take it to the police and or RSPCA for animal abuse.

i cant beleive this person hasnt been banned from working with animals

lunamoona

OMG i am so shocked at all these storys coming out at what goes on i dont go to these places i bath mine myself and i will now after reading these things NEVER go to any place to have them bath or groom my dogs i cant read any more of this thread sorry its all to upseting , :-(

If one knows of such mis-treatment of any animal, the onus is on the person who knows about the mistreatment to report it/publicise it, imo.   Preferably with conclusive photographic proof.

To sit back and do nothing is tantamount to condoning such behaviour.

To say omg, how terrible, but to do nothing is the same as not reporting known cases of child abuse.

>
>
> OMG i am so shocked at all these storys coming out at what goes on i dont go to these places i bath mine myself and i will now after reading these things NEVER go to any place to have them bath or groom my dogs i cant read any more of this thread sorry its all to upseting , :-(

Honestly Chelzeagirl,most of us aren't like this.You really do need the patience of a saint to be a groomer sometimes but most of us do it because we love dogs.I don't believe you should ever tell someone else's dog off no matter how badly behaved it is never mind inflicting this sort of awful abuse.

Sorry, but I stand by what I said.
If this person is coming home crying, then this person MUST be advised to blow the whistle.
That is the advice, it may come over as an emptional response, but it is WRONG.

Karen

>I don't believe you should ever tell someone else's dog off no matter how badly behaved it is never mind >inflicting this sort of awful abuse.

There's NO excuse for ill treating a dog, whether through cruelty or rough grooming.   Especially one who is entrusted to your care.   With patience, a calm manner and the right care most dogs will accept grooming - I've had dogs actually fighting me and ended up black and blue   but within 3 visits they calm down and begin to enjoy the experience, because they have gained confidence and learned to trust me ;)  This won't happen if they are treated roughly or hurt in any way.

In the position of the OP I think I'd have to find a way of proving it - filming it comes to mind ;)  it's surprising how many small digital cameras and phones also have video/sound recording facilities ;)

omg sounds like a rotten nursing home, i would of thought you would need lots of evidence. as a groomer myself i would suggest reporting it to  the british dog groomers association they may be able to help.

Maybe she could video the abuse (discreetly!) on her mobile phone and show it to the owner (or local dog warden/rspca)? Somebody has to stand up for these dogs before it's too late and some poor soul dies :(

I wish I could come up with an idea to help all the things that have been suggested may indeed help.
I am so glad that the lady I take my dog to is happy for me to stay and help if I want, she doesn't need me its jsut easier than going home and coming back. I shudder to think what could have happened to my other dogs who went somewhere else.
  

Thanks to all of those who gave some sensible advice. Unfortunately, yes, it is an emotional topic, but emotional responses aren't helping the dogs. NO it isn't comparable to child abuse as regards to law, so comparing it is just not helping. Saying the person should quit does not help and as for judging them, I know this person has been close to yelling at the person, walking out and quitting, comes home in tears and doesn't want to go to work etc... but they have also shown great courage to hold in there and force themselves to do this for the sake of the dogs and not just walk away and leave them to it. Hence they have asked for help in stopping this. I guess some can do that and what they don't see won't hurt them, but this person is the kind of person to worry themselves sick over it. They want to see this person out of dog grooming for what they do to these dogs, not just leave and hope that something is done about it. They wanted some advice as how best to go about it. Some of you have given some really good advice and it has already been reported to the RSPCA. I still don't think this will stop the abuse. Maybe they do need to pluck up the courage and try and get some video footage. It will mean they will be probably tossed out of the family for doing so. I guess it is something they'll have to weigh up and decide upon. Writing to the owners is not something that can be done, as the shop rarely takes anyone's address and having a quiet word is not really discreet. What would one complaint from an owner do anyway, apart from maybe lose them their job? They don't want to drive this behaviour underground and not be there to do something. They want this person caught and stopped.

The only way for this person to be caught and stopped is for evidence to be obtained and used as proof. Video taping would be excellent but not always easy.

If the RSPCA visit I'm not sure it would not acheive a lot as people act totally differently in front of authority and tell lies. It would need lots of complaints to the RSPCA for them to keep the pressure on of checking up on this salon.

I would rather be tossed out my family than continue to let dogs suffer in this way -  if they stand up to this person other family members may have the courage to do the same and then this bully would be in the minority.

I liked Kikamom's idea of somehow videoing the goings on so she has hard evidence for the RSPCA. That's just terrible - I admit to a 'for heavens sake stand still' here and there with the more wriggly dogs, but this sort of thing is just disgusting! :-(

> They want this person caught and stopped.

If they really want this to happen then THEY are the only people/person who can do it.   We cannot do it from an internet forum - it has to be the action of the person who is witnessing this abuse to report it.

>If they really want this to happen then THEY are the only people/person who can do it.   We cannot do it from an internet forum - it has to be the action of the person who is witnessing this abuse to report it.

If you read my posts THEY know this and it HAS been reported to the RSPCA. They know YOU can not do it from an internet forum. THEY are asking for the best possible way to go about it so that THIS person does not get away with it. It's responses like this that are not really helpful.

Thanks to the people who suggested video recording or at the least voice recording. I have a video camera that is small, but unfortunately will still probably be noticed and makes a lovely musical sound when turned on, so probably not so discreet. I know they can't record video on there phone, but can record voice. The difficulty that they have is that it is a tiny and cramped space with the tables and people facing eachother, so not so easy to video someone or something without them noticing. :( Voice would be an excellent option, but how much weight will be placed on it as evidence without the video to back it up I don't know.
They are concerned that reporting it to the RSPCA with no evidence, that it may drive them underground or not actually stop the abuse, but their partner decided to report it due to seeing what it is doing to the person they love.

>I would rather be tossed out my family than continue to let dogs suffer in this way -  if they stand up to this person other family members may have the courage to do the same and then this bully would be in the minority.

Yeah me too and from the sounds of it, this person is not just a bully, but must have some serious issues that they need help with, even if it's just anger management, something doesn't sound right with this person. It seems they are very much a Jekyll and Hyde type of character.

Well, after mentioning that I too have had a bit of an 'experience' at a grooming parlour, it went from pretty bad to worse.

The lady who owns the place has also employed a certified master groomer (as called here in Australia) who seemed ok to begin with.

Bear in mind that out here, rarely are any of the breeds groomed that are actually done to breed standard.  They are mostly clipped right off because of the heat and owners/groomers seem quite happy with that.
I'm finding that quite difficult to get my head around, but different strokes and all that.
We actually had two dogs in who were very very heavily coated, I'm pretty sure they were Japanese Spitz, one black and one white and they were both clipped off with a no. 7 blade and the tail and head left fairly full.  Eeeeeeeek!!!!  Oh my goodness, I know it's hot out here but those poor dogs just looked terrible.  A lady came in to drop her dog off and asked the master groomer what breed the black one was and she said she didn't know, that she thought it might be a collie cross!!!!!  (insert roll eyes again!!).

Anyway, I was called in on the same day as the master groomer, and whilst she was grooming an adorable spoodle (insert roll eyes!) she smacked it one around the head a couple of times.  I had my back to her at the time as I was bathing, so I didn't actually see her slap the dog, but I know how it would sound if someone slapped someone or something else, and by her body language (and the dogs) as I turned around to look I'm pretty sure that's what had happened.  They don't use neck harness / restrains so the poor animals are bound to move around more than usual!!
Anyway, I left that afternoon and I've actually contacted the people/group who register certified master groomers as they most definitely do have a code of conduct, even if the miriad of self taught groomers out here don't.  I doubt I'll have much luck with a response as I didn't actually see physical contact, but I know my gut instinct on the incident and so I have emailed to begin with.

I'm very disillusioned with the whole thing out here. :(

I'm afraid it's  sad fact of life, but the world is full of cruel, heartless people.  I would never leave my dogs alone in a grooming salon where I didn't know the people. 

But unfortunately, I have worked or been in situations where I have first hand witnessed cruelty and these people seem to get pleasure out of it.  Probably school bullies at one time.  I have heard of, and witnessed, cruel comments by NHS nurses, saying degrading things about elderly patients, I have witnessed bullying in nursing homes and I have seen people being mentally cruel to people with special needs, let alone dogs!  On each occasion I have reported them - they don't deserve to carry on as if nothing has happened.  I hope it's just a coincidence on my part, and that this isn't widespread.  The nurse situation came about when my mother had to spend a couple of weeks in hospital a few months ago.  She told me that she heard the nurses making loud personal comments about her (in a full ward).  I couldn't believe it, but I did when I overheard the same three nurses 'slagging off' for want of a better phrase, another woman a day later.  I was getting some water, and they weren't aware of my presence.  I faced them, and they looked embarrassed.  After my mum was discharges, I wrote a letter to the hospital manager, copying in the consultant my mother was under.  This, hopefully, is isolated and I know nurses do a briliant job (I have two close relatives who are nurses), but sometimes certain people like the power they are entrusted with two much. 

> I would rather be tossed out my family than continue to let dogs suffer in this way

Me too, even if I was told that I'm too emotional.  And I probably wouldn't bother with the RSPCA.  Just do my utmost to get enough video footage to back up my accusations.  And take it to the press.

Film it with a mobile phone and then confront the owner with the evidence - threaten to put it on Youtube. (Young people would be more concerned about their peers watching Youtube I would think)

wouldn't that also breach privacy laws though tooolz?  particularly if the filming were to take place on or in the owners property? (i.e. the grooming salon).
I'd be really concerned about  doing anything like that tbh

I did say threaten.

A young spiteful little piece of work like that would assume that everyone is the same.

As an aside though:- (I dont really think the privacy laws in this country have any teeth anyway. I doubt that a  fraction of the stuff on Youtube was taken with permission.
Lordy I watched the whole of Britains Got Talent pirated from the TV company :-( )

hi tooolz.
I know you said threaten to put it on youtube, my concern would be the filming of said person in the first place.  Whether the privacy laws have any teeth or not, I'd still be very worried about someone like that taking legal advice and finding out the person who did the filming was / is breaking the law.

Hi debussy

I have also witnessed slagging off by 'nurses' but this was in a care home.  My nanna was in one and I too overheard someone talking about her saying she stunk of wee and 'im not touching that', sadly I lost my temper and pushed her up against the wall and threatened her (im not at all normally like that) my temper was raging, and threatened to set my newf on her (god he wouldn't know what to do just like the little sod to death i suppose lol).  She said it was'nt her who said it, I pushed her by the kneck again up against the wall I said im going to report her and wrote a letter to the home and to my local council,

when I got home, I was so shocked by my actions as iv never been like that, but I was thinking of my poor nanna so in the end we got her out and now she's in a lovely place where caring people look after them and she now looks great.

Also, Im a groomer with my own salon, and my shop is all open plan except where we bath them, but we are in and out of there within 10 mins depending on each dog, I always tell the 'parents' to pop in anytime and see their doggy being groomed as my table is in eyeshot of my main big window, I have a large reception area but you can still see us grooming (well me as i only have a helper at weekends).  The are totally well cared for and have the run of of my salon after their groom, they are are also taken out in the back for a wee and a poo also I have bowles of water all around my shop and have doggie treats to give them the odd one if they are fretting.  I talk to my dogs in the shop all the time, I totally love my job - I must admit, I do get dogs in who fret for their mum and dad, but I calm them down by talking and stroking them again in full view of the public.

so what you are saying about groomers - yes there are cruel ones like i have witnessed by the mobile ones and my customers have told me a couple of people who are mobile that they were awful to their dogs in the vans and also when they came to pick them up and take them away to where ever they groom them, which is horrific in my view,

To be honest, there should be something where you can complain about dog groomers to protect people and us, iv heard some awful stories about groomers myself and I know who they are and they are still operating.  There was one incident about 4 years ago where the RSPCA and the 'pet care trust' were involved, about a small dog collapsing on his table and he told them the dog had collapsed and he was sorry, the family couldn't believe it so they were not satisfied and they shelled out £500 for a autopsy, they later found out it had all buises all over it's body and it died of a heart attack it was 2 years old, but he is STILL operating by putting the business in his sister's name, I know who it is but what can you do!!!!!! they did close the shop but as I say, his sister took it over even tho she isn't a groomer but she just helps out and he is still there today!!!

but I totally understand there are some cruel people, we just have to keep reporting them until something is done, but in the meantime, I love my profession and would never ever be cruel to anyone or even a dog, but after my last incident with that girl, i wouldn't now think twice on jumping on anyone being cruel to anyone even a dog or a cat....