My puppies are almost 4 weeks old now and getting quite big and as there are 10 they are getting very messy. I am forever cleaning their run but as soon as I put clean newspaper in someone wees on it.
I have set up a large run outside with a shed and I have been trying to put them out in it for an hour or two for a change of scenery but all they do is howl.
I know they are still fairly young but I was hoping I would be able to have them outside for at least some of the day as the run inside is getting too small for all of them.
Mum won't stay outside with them. I have put food and vet bed out there but they start howling and as there are so many of them they are very loud. I am worried that either someone will call the rspca about me abusing them or I will get complaints about the noise.
how do other people get their puppies used to outside pens?

I don't use outside pens.  I do have an escape proof garden, and the whelping room has a door to outside.  I leave the puppy crate open all day, and I leave the outside door open, and, however long it takes I don't take a pup outside myself.  Once they are curious enough they are delighted with their cleverness!

They go out because they decided to explore, not because I decided for them.  It does depend on size though, as my tiniest pups do take longer.

My pups (large breed pups, tiny would be different) get to go out in the garden on a daily basis from as soon as they are able to walk -but then I am WITH them. They need to get used to it gradually and the first couple of times they aren't sure. When I've put them out in my kennel at 5 weeks I've never had a problem as they have already been so so used to being outside. Pups in a kennel WILL be noisy - not all the time but when they wake up in the morning (which usually is early), when it is feeding time etc, they will make a lot of noise (I usually say they sound like demented seagulls LOL), there isn't any way around that.

I have quite a large garden with a lot of bushes in it and I worry if they were just out on their own I would lose them. It is dog proof but there are a lot of places to hide.
they can't make their own way outside as there are steps down from the house.
they have been out there with me but if 10 run in different directions I can't watch them all

So I am probably expecting a bit too much from mine yet then as they are not 4 weeks yet.
they have been in the garden and the pen for short visits but today  was so nice and sunny I thought it would be nice for them to stay outside but they just sat in a huddle and howled.
Demented seaguls is right!

Remember it's much brighter outside for their new sensitive eyes so I always put a huge garden parasol over the top.

I make a pen in the garden and taken everything familiar from inside out - their bed (mine have a cardboard box with one side cut out just as soon as they can walk), vetbed, feedbowls etc.  And I sit in the pen with them and they settle in a few minutes

> and I worry if they were just out on their own I would lose them

If it's any consolation I had a litter of small breed pups a while back.  They were well grown, and, at 6 weeks, already socialised into the pack.  When I call the whole gang in, it's normal for puppies to follow instinctively. 

I was one pup short, and, although I knew that he couldn't get out, I didn't want him left out there alone.  I looked everywhere.  Mind you, it's an old 1930's house with huge mature garden, so plenty of trees and shrubs (must sack the gardner for not cutting some back.)  I can't get into some of them.

I eventually went back inside to start feeding, and it must have been an hour before I went back outside.  I found a little tot yawning as he crept out from under the overgrowth, after having his siesta.  He wondered what all the fuss was about!

your garden sounds like mine. I am not sure my nerves would stand it though.
Another problem is one of my other dogs does not like puppies. I dont want him to hurt them so it makes it difficult to allow the puppies to mix as trying to keep 10 away from him is almost impossible.

Mine go out about that age, but they are more than happy after the first day to have the extra space, so maybe yours despite their number haven't reached that level of maturity yet.

As your finding there is no way I could find enough space indoors for a litter of medium to large breed pups, mine start the howling and screaming when they feel they want more space than they have indoors.

As for the noise pups make, that is one reason I try to have winter litters.  Pups can be noisy and from 7 weeks upward I am forever trying to limit the noise they make and living on a knife edge re neighbours.

> I usually say they sound like demented seagulls LOL

Yep that is the description I use.

> do have an escape proof garden, and the whelping room has a door to outside.  I leave the puppy crate open all day, and I leave the outside door open, and, however long it takes I don't take a pup outside myself.

This won't really work if you have other dogs using the same area or entrances, as the adults do deserve being able to not be with the pups..

my set up is where, once the puppies are walking, the door from the whelping room is opened straight onto the garden where i have a puppy pen set up, as the puppies grow, i add more panels to the pen, until around 6~7 weeks, then they have the run of my garden. If i am in the garden then all dogs and puppies are together, but if i need to go indoors then i use the panels to the pen to section an area off to separate the puppies from adult dogs. I also find the puppies demosurate their seagull howls when they get hungry or are wanting more space and shelter :)

> as the adults do deserve being able to not be with the pups..

I agree Barbara, but I do have a huge amount of space outside to make this possible when needed.

Bought the house for the outside space for the Collies years ago.  I had to make a decision.  In my price range I could have a bigger house with a handkerchief size lawn.  Or a tiddly house with loads of room outside.

When they all come in the front room, the room is so small that it's wall to wall dog!  :-)

> how do other people get their puppies used to outside pens?

Ours are large breed pups. We have a covered run set up outside the whelping room (which used to be our dining room :-)) It has a gate and is secure. It means our adults can share the garden without being bothered by the pesky pups. To start with I carry them from their indoor space and put them in the outdoor run. There is a large basket with a comfy mat inside, a big fleece blanket and a nice squashy mat too. There are familiar toys and also some new ones. Like you, I put them out from about 4 weeks depending on the weather. They are usually mostly weaned by then so I can feed them out there which tends to keep them quiet. Also a bowl of goats milk can quieten them down if they are doing their seagull impression!

I'm sure yours will get the hang of it soon. I do like them outside in the fresh air weather permitting so keep at it. Best of luck.