just had a litter of guinea pigs.
the runt isnt feeding.
i have put it under mum byits slef and it just doesnt know what to do with the nipple.
i looked on teh internet, it said it was safe to feed a very small amount of cows milk. (i drink the 'one', which is very skimmed milk) that was 2 hours ago and it is fine.
im going feed it a little again.

it have read the lactose free milk is best, should i just leave the guinea and let nature take its corse as i usualy would with the runt, but this one is really bad!

baby guinea go on to solids on day 2-3 so i may only be feeding it today as this is day two.

If I understand you correctly you are saying that this runt is a really bad runt as in poorly? Personally I would try feeding some goats milk if you can get it but if it doesn't find it might be kinder to put it out of it's misery! I've used goats milk with young rabbits, although I would not try to hand rear baby rabbits nowadays as they seldom make it, but I do give goats milk to big litters and it doesn't upset their gut at all.

If you are still worried can you tap into your family contacts and get a free consult with your vet dad - what does he think?

> baby guinea go on to solids on day 2-3

Can I point out that healthy ones start solids.  This runt isn't going to start eating solids, when it's too weak to feed from Mum.  Having bred, judged, and exhibited them for over 25 years, can I respectfully ask that you get stepdad to PTS rather than letting it die slowly.

tap on the head I would have thought!

tap it on the head!!!!
would you do that to one of your puppies!!!!

i have been feeding it every 2 hours, on cows milk, she is doing really well she can walk, she has started whistling!!yay!!
she can follow mum, will feed her in a few hours to get her through the night.
my mums friend may have her so she is going to a good home.

thanks any way.

he is an old fasioned vet. and he would say leave it or kill it.
i would normally leave it, but like i said it was in a bad way!

Would have thought cows milk too weak, and skimmed milk of even less value.

> Would have thought cows milk too weak, and skimmed milk of even less value.

Totally agree.  When I've had large litters, but babes strong and using water bottle (which they do fairly early on), I've put small hamster bottles up with Lactol in, and they have used that no problem.  You do have to renew often, and ensure that the pipe is uclogged (I used pipe cleaners.)

> he is an old fasioned vet. and he would say leave it or kill it.
> i would normally leave it, but like i said it was in a bad way!

A vet who says leave it or kill it? Well that's what a tap on the back of the head would do - put it out of it's misery! Leaving it is cruel. If we have runts in litters with the rabbits they are disposed of rather than left and I know cavy fanciers do the same.

I was told when we started breeding rabbits that a doe has about the richest milk in the animal world and the nearest substitute that we would be able to find is goat's milk which I get from a local goat breeder so it's not pasturised or treated in any way. This is why I suggested it for your runt at least if it started to feed it would get more goodness from goat's milk than cows milk.

i dont know i read it on ethj internet on 2-3 places, that they can have cows milk, just not too much.

skimmed is better, because teh larger fat molecules have been removed, which is what makes cow milk hard to digest for some animals. goats milk has fat molecules of all different sizes which is why any animal can drink it.

she is really strong now. i have brought her in again, she was under mum, but with 5 other big guinea babes she cant ever get a feed. she is asking to get fed, nere enogh every 2 hours. im feeding on demand which she would be getting if she was strong enough.

the hard thing is tring not to get too attached.

i was told by my vet that what they normally do for guineas is put  mineral and vitimin tablets in water.
so cows milk is probably too rich

oh and a guinea is a close reletive to the cow, well thats what im led to beleive.

>a guinea is a close reletive to the cow

Cavies are a totally different species (cavia porcellus) to the cow (bos taurus).

From experience I have learned not to listen to vets when it comes to rabbits and cavies, listen to the more experienced fanciers cause they know an awful lot more than the majority of vets do.  My daughter had a phone call a couple of months ago from our vet asking what we would recommend feeding to a young cavy that had lost it's mum - says it all really! 

Sounds like a sensible vet to me, ask an expert! Vets can not all specilise in every animal surely!Quite refreshing for one to acknowledge that breeders have invaluable advise to offer.

> Sounds like a sensible vet to me, ask an expert! Vets can not all specilise in every animal surely!Quite refreshing for one to acknowledge that breeders have invaluable advise to offer.

Only one vet in a 5 vet practice sadly. She is the only vet I will see if I have an ill rabbit as she listens to my concerns and wishes. I have heard that vets only study rabbit medicine for a day in their 5 year course so they can only learn a small amount of specific medicine in that amount of time!

no but I would for a guinea pig. Likewise id eat a GP....(have done so in past) but i woldnt eat a puppy!! Not sure what your logic was really???

> Likewise id eat a GP

That is what they were domesticated for in South America.

but the europeans have them as pets, the chow chow was bred to eat, does mean i see it as food.

Europeans have rabbits as pets, and eat them too.

but they eat wild rabbits not domesticated.

any way i got some goats milk, as its better.
she is surviving much stonger, she is lifting her head!!
i hope she can go in with the others soon she has started eating tiny ammounts of apple im poping in to her mouth.

>but they eat wild rabbits not domesticated

No, the rabbit you find in supermarkets is domestic rabbit. Even at markets I've seen 'unpeeled' rabbits in a wide variety of colours; black and white, tan and white ...

but they eat wild rabbits not domesticated.

I think you'll find in the UK the New Zealand White is one breed kept for its meat, in large commercial rabbitries. This is why rabbits are split into 3 breed groups: Fur (used for its fur and meat), Fancy (no other use than showing/pets -although curiously the Angora is a Fancy breed despite its fur being used but that of course is clipped, so doesn't have to be killed) and Rex (also used for its fur, it's kind of a mixture of fur and fancy.)

>but they eat wild rabbits not domesticated

Really? ...

> but they eat wild rabbits not domesticated.

What are you talking about???

Rabbits have been kept as a meat animal since their arrival in the UK with the Romans, and become feral since, and certainly when I was a child not that long ago I hasten to add, only about 30 years they were mainly viewed in the same way as chickens, which many people also keep as pets.

I kept and showed pedigree rabbits and was told my one of my elders that I should know how to utilise the surplus stock.

One of 'Chaz and Dave's' lyrics was 'she's got more Rabbit than Sainsbury's.

Rabbit keeping for meat unfortunately is not very profitable especially when your stock gets wiped out with Myxamatosis and more lately Viral Hemorrhagic disease, so most domestic Rabbit these days in the shops is imported, and what little else is on the table is wild caught.

All breeds are eaten, the classification like in dogs is based on primary use or the aspect of most importance.

Fur Rabbits are judged primarily on the quality of it's fur (Rex are really a subdivision), but all are equally good eating.  The breeds kept most for meat are the medium to fairly large quick growing ones.  The largest breeds actually grow too slowly to be commercially viable.

The two most commonly kept varieties for Meat in my youth were New Zealand White and Californian, often crossed for Hybrid vigour for the table but kept pure for breeding stock.

yes, my grandad used to breed them. what i mean is that they are pets!

i got mum guinea, and put a little goats milk on her nipple and the runt has started suckling on mum, i dont know if she will with out help, but she is out there all day to day i hope.
i will still top her up but she seems to be keeping up.

> This is why rabbits are split into 3 breed groups:

They are now split into 4 groups as the powers that be gave lops their own section since they became hugely popular.

> but they eat wild rabbits not domesticated.

A lot of rabbits fanciers do not see their rabbits as pets, they are stock and many of them do not rehome excess stock to pet homes because an awful lot of rabbits get neglected in hutches at the bottom of a garden so you will find that a lot of people who breed and show rabbits will also cull their own and use them in the food chain, either for themselves, for people who feed their dogs raw, keep snakes or birds of prey.

> what i mean is that they are pets!

No they can be pets as all domestic animals can, but that is/was not their primary role/purpose/use.

> A lot of rabbits fanciers do not see their rabbits as pets, they are stock and many of them do not rehome excess stock to pet homes because an awful lot of rabbits get neglected in hutches at the bottom of a garden

I fall into that category and find it strange to see Rabbits in 'rescue' an unwanted/surplus Rabbit is someones dinner.

> I fall into that category and find it strange to see Rabbits in 'rescue' an unwanted/surplus Rabbit is someones dinner.

Me too, but I keep Polish, the smallest breed there is so the dogs or a friend's birds get any excess. lol We also have Dutch but we sort them out at a few days old as you can clearly see their markings and my OH has Belgian Hares and a waiting list of other fanciers looking for stock. I've often thought about keeping a big fur breed but space is limited.

The Californians are lovely natured and have a decent amount of meat at the front compared to most breeds.  Great Mums too if your looking for Fosters, but that wouldn't apply as Dutch and English make great Mums.

I used to keep Chocolate English, but often stewarded Poles;), as many people were a little nervous of handling the fast nippy blighters LOL.

I have a friend in the Norfolk area who keeps Calis and they have always appealed to me as they are so laid back compared to Polish! lol

> I used to keep Chocolate English, but often stewarded Poles;), as many people were a little nervous of handling the fast nippy blighters LOL.

Don't see many choc English about these days!  Some stewards still disappear when the Poles come out but they're not that bad if you keep your eye on them. The whites can be temperamental but the coloureds are more laid back.

http://www.rodentretreat.co.uk/cct.html

I think you may find this of interest, I know Peter Gurney who was a guinea pig "expert" used to
talk of the Cambridge Cavy people and I think Vedra was one of them - I hope this is the correct
phone number. There seems to be an emergency helpline.

Vets aren't always that up in exotics (which is what guineas are). They really need more training.

Good luck,

Lindsay
x

we also used to have british giants. but the breeder we got ours from stopped, and we have a rex now. its no where near as special as the BG.

Me too, but I keep Polish

Oh now I feel all nostalgic -that was my breed in the 80s/90s. I only had coloured, mainly self blacks and tans/otters, a few blues too but they were never as good as the blacks.

> Oh now I feel all nostalgic -that was my breed in the 80s/90s. I only had coloured, mainly self blacks and tans/otters, a few blues too but they were never as good as the blacks.

Our garage is full of Polish. lol I started with siamese sables and marten sables, then I got some rews, then himalayan and last year added blacks and blues. I did have torts for a while but just couldn't get them to breed. My daughter also has Poles in bew.

> oh and a guinea is a close reletive to the cow,

The closest relative of the Cavy is actually a Capybara

http://images.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=capybara+rodent&cr=countryUK%7CcountryGB&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=D46QSq2vFIbbjQfArMHMDg&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4

Loads of pics on this link, you can see the resemblance, except the Capybara is the largest rodent you can find.

> I think you may find this of interest, I know Peter Gurney who was a guinea pig "expert" used to
> talk of the Cambridge Cavy people and I think Vedra was one of them - I hope this is the correct
> phone number. There seems to be an emergency helpline.
>
> Vets aren't always that up in exotics (which is what guineas are). They really need more training.
>
>

Wow, you have just given me a blast from the past!!!  :-)

Remember Vedra well, I was a member of the Cambridge Cavy Trust, and it was really the only place that we exhibitors could get advice, other than the research laboratories.

I can remember going to a party and boring a young vet student rigid with questions.  Until he told me "we only get one A4 sheet to read on Guinea Pigs."

As others have pointed out, having them for years, you learn so much, and I've had vets phone me when they have had problems that didn't respond to treatment, and asking how I dealt with it.  I remember, in particular, one vet lending one of my thick volumes, and I hadn't realised that that they had to buy their own books, even when they were employed at a practise, and had to build up their collection of books on different species.

As proper information didn't come in your everyday pet books, I often went halves with another Cavy fancier to buy research books, as they were so expensive.

> The two most commonly kept varieties for Meat in my youth were New Zealand White and Californian, often crossed for Hybrid vigour for the table but kept pure for breeding stock.

LOL!!!  :-)

As a teenager, and more interested in going out at night than bothering about what Dad was up to, I never ever thought much about the two pet rabbits he kept.

Durrrr!!  They weren't pets!  They were New Zealand Whites, and when he killed them my mother nearly had heart failure.  She said "I'm not cooking those!" 

He went round to the elderly couple next door, who were more than delighted for him to stop to dinner!

What happened to the baby guinea pig, did it live?

no it died. i left it with mum over night, she was fine in the morning and a few hours later to give her another feed, and i found her dead.

so i think she got squished under mum. i dont know? i wish i had kept her in, but it is hard knowing what is best. i will still do the same next time though.

she is burried under the apple tree.

Wow, you have just given me a blast from the past!!!  :-)

Remember Vedra well, I was a member of the Cambridge Cavy Trust, and it was really the only place that we exhibitors could get advice, other than the research laboratories.

Oh gosh, me too! Used to be only place you could get Ivomec from so it was worth being a member for that alone! Did visit them once as well, must be going on for 20 years ago now.

> Used to be only place you could get Ivomec from so it was worth being a member for that alone

I can remember asking my old, now retired vet, for Ivomec, and he asked what I wanted it for.  Obviously, in those days, he told me that it was licensed for use on cattle not cavies.

However, as I was a member of the trust, he said that he would provide me with enough for my entire stud, as long as I could tell him the correct dosage, as he didn't have a clue. 

Mind you, I am going back to the days that we also used Cooper's Fly and Scab dip.  I had longhairs, and when you had an adult with 18" show coat, the last thing you wanted was to pick up Selnic at a show.  I used to bathe my pigs ready for show, and once all the shampoo was out, put them in a bucket of sheep dip.  Never picked up anything from a show, and the coat gleamed like magic.  But boy, you could smell my pigs coming!!  :-)