Hi

I've registered to join these forums and seeing as you seem to be a nice friendly bunch of dog folk I thought I'd dip my toe in the water here on the health board to ask for advice.

My bichon MN aged 8 has recently been diagnosed with canine meningitis and it was only when he went blind did I realise anything was wrong.  He showed no signs of a stiff neck, loss of appetite (doesn't eat much anyway) though he was 'slowing down' somewhat on our usual walks.  Looking back now, I feel guilty as heck as I think this may have been the start of it all and there were probably other signs that I missed as well.

Anyway, I'm at my limit on my dog insurance and my vet has decided to keep him on prednisone and antibiotics for a while.  Now I know it's not about money, as I love my dog to bits.  What I'm after is some advice on coping with a blind dog.  You see, I cried and grieved for my little dog I've lost, (he won't enjoy all the things we used to see together on our ways, I can feel myself filling up now writing about it).  Now I've got a new friend with special needs I'm walking him slowly and giving him commands like, step, post, up, down and he's adapting slowly.  However, I'm not sure if the tablets are making him feel a bit odd or is he's getting depression.  I mean, it can't be much fun for him thinking I've turned the lights out *sob*.

The vet has said it can come back and I may have to look at chemotherapy for him.  I've never heard of this before, does anyone know if it's harmful to him or (dare I mention) the cost.

She also suggested I consider another dog for him to be his eyes, does anyone else think this would be a good idea?

I would love to hear your opinions and experiences on dealing with this illness and how to cope with a blind dog.

Love welshdoglover x

I can't help with the meningitis, however with regards to the blindness, as long as nothing is moved with regards to furniture he should be ok. I know a dog which is both deaf and blind and you wouldn't know he was any different. He has a lovely life. Dogs dont sit and feel sorry for themselves like we do they just get on deal with it. Just treat him you would any other older dog.

I can't help regarding the meningitis, but I had a dog who lost about 95% of her sight, and it really didn't affect her badly at all. She very soon learned to follow voice commands and was able to run around in the fields following her nose as though nothing had changed. I've also seen a video of a labrador doing some excellent send-aways and retrieves guided by scent and commanded by voice - the dog had had both eyes removed due to glaucoma. Dogs don't rely on their eyesight nearly as much as we do, so the loss of it isn't such a trauma.

I have a dog that lost her sight due to a type of meningitis. She was seen by a Canine Opthamologist and was on steroids to try and save her sight, once we new it was irreversable she came off the steroids and was/still is on no medication.  Is there a chance the sight can be saved? Is that why your dog is on medication, has your Vet enough experience?

We contined to treat her as normal and the only things we did differnet was to try not to change furniture, leave clutter about.  You can try putting different scents on significant corners/edges etc if you feel the dog is having trouble moving around the house.

I do not baby her at all, although we do have to think more for her on walks and she responds well to 'ah' as a sort of stop command- although she occasionally bumps into posts, benches etc.

As she is a sibe we don't let her off the lead anyway, however I was reading an article the other day on blind dogs and they do say you can let them off, in controlled spaces, so again this may be possible for you?

Sight is not as important as smell to dogs so I find other then keeping her whiskers forward more, she copes well and can track sounds extremely well, many people meeting her, including anohther Vet feel she can see something, however we know she can't she just adapts extremely well.

Please stop being upset as this will rub off on your dog, be matter of fact and make life fun and an adventure, dogs do not worry as we do, nor respond to illness as we do, so it is up to you to carry on and help your dog adapt to the new situation in a positive manner.

I would only consider another dog if your dog enjoys the company of other dogs and would benefit from another one. Expecting another dog to be it's eyes is a touch disney in my opinion.  My girl lives with 7 others and our initial worry was her continuing OK in the pack, the others do make allowances for her, but I wouldn't call any of them her eyes

There is lots to read on blind dogs and I bought a great book from Amazon called Living with Blind Dogs which contains lots of training hints and advice. I am waiting for the day when I know my welshie could lose the sight in her left eye, she lost her right eye to Glaucoma and initially I was petrified, but the more I read about how well dogs cope, the more I realise both Scarlet and I will adapt. I hope things work out well for you.

Sue and Waggydog

> I've also seen a video of a labrador doing some excellent send-aways and retrieves guided by scent and commanded by voice - the dog had had both eyes removed due to glaucoma.

Funnily enough have seen similar with a Vet nurse I know and her Welsh Springer.

She was doing retrieves at an exemption show obedience class, and she had lost both eyes due to Glaucoma.

As JG says to a dog sight is one of the less important senses, smell and hearing being more important.

Hi

I think you could be right about him adapting quite well.  I've just come home from a 30 minute walk with him, the longest so far and he done it really well.  Bumped into afew posts but I think that was my fault but as for pavements, well, we've got the step command sorted out. 

I'm going to buy that book from Amazon, thanks for the tip on that one!

I'm still toying with the idea of another dog though, more to keep him company.  At the moment, the kids are off school so there is someone to stay with him while I'm in work. 

Any suggestions on how to cope when I will have to leave him on his own?  I'm thinking maybe a crate, but he's so used to sleeping on the settee in his 'spot' so not sure how he'd take to that idea.

On another note, the prednisone tablets are making him wee!  I bought a vax machine to clean the carpets and that seems to be working well, I just hope it doesn't start to pong!

love
welshdoglover x

Toni my blind girl stays loose and mainly just snoozes on her fav spot on the settee all day, I am sure that is what your boy would prefer.  If he is already well behaved, being blind shouldn't change him :-)

hI Welshdoglover,  I had a little dog that had to be PTS earlier this year. She presented 2 1/2yrs ago with just the same symptom as your dog- sudden blindness. I realise now that she too had been showing very subtle signs prior to loosing her sight, ie slowing down on her walks, which vets thought was skeletal. She had shown neck stiffness at times as well. Refered to specialists she was diagnosed with meninoencephalitis (GME)after an MRI & spinal tap. I presume your boy had these which is essential for diagnosis of inflammatory CNS Disease. The mainstay of treatment is high dose Pred, slowly reducing over a long period, together with chemotherapy (which doesn't affect dogs the way it does humans) My girl had vague sight in the top corner of one eye, which could have improved if the Pred had been started earlier. She coped well with her vision loss while she had this bit of sight. Sadly she also had cough syncope which also needed Pred to stop her fainting and it was this continued use of Prednisolone that finally caused her liver failure but she survived the meningoencephalitis. Don't worry to much about the blindness. They cope much better than we would do but personally I wouldn't bring in a new dog as a seeing dog and indeed my vet advised against it. Also without the insurance I had (up to £7.500 per condition) I could never have done for my girl what I did. Trouble is the heart rules instead of the head in these circumstances.
Good luck. Shall be thinking of you.

wow thanks peanut.  I've often wondered about the side effects of Pred and whether it would actually cause something else.

Can I ask about the chemo, did your dog cope well being on that drug and how much was it?  I'm upto my limit on my claim,  I got a cheapo policy and never in a million years did I think vets bills would be so high so quickly, it was the mri and spinal tap that stung me the most.  Never mind, I could spend £2000 on a holiday for a week or spend it on my dog who gives me many weeks pleasure.

love
welshdoglover x

I wanted to say i really do hope that your dog pulls through this.
Not a lot else to offer on this but it appears from where i am sitting that more and more dogs are being diagnosed with meningitis. Now i don't know if this is due to me being more open to it or vets are more aware of it therefore dogs are being correctly diagnosed now but it is a worry.
It doesn't seem to have any rhyme or reason in correlation to any particular breed or anything triggering this off.

I must admit Suejaw, I've never heard of canine meningitis before.  I still don't know a great deal about it but I'm hoping he'll pull through and give us many years of pleasure.  On the other hand, I've also read stories in similar forums where it came back with a vengeance and the dog had to be *whispers* PTS

*shuddering at the thought of doing that*

love
welshdoglover x

Hi
I am sorry to hear about your Bichon.
We have sadly gone through a simlar experince with our IWH aged 2 who problems started with a back problem that appeared to get slowly better then a month later her movement got suddenly worse and her sight was servely effected.
In her case after the diagnose was reached the treatment was also high dose of prednisolone gradually reducing after treatment at seasons 3 weeks apart with Cytarabine which is adminstered in 4 doses 12hrs apart by injection this has been done as an in patient. Cytarabine is a drug commenly used in the treatment of canncer, i belive it is a steriod and that it supress the imune system.
The prednisolone does have quite a number of side effects drink a lot, panting,hunger..the good new the effects get less as the dose goes down.The cytarabine means you have tobe very careful incase of infection. So in are our case we have been in self imposed quartine since April.
I rember the dark days at the begining of this of her bumping into things, walking on our other dogs(who have been very tolerant and understanding),but very slowly there has been an improvement her movment is much better and her sight has slowly improved infact this morning she actualy saw a rabbit and had a wee run. She is still undergoing treatment which we expect to last for some months yet.
I would surgest talking to your vet and finding out about the treatment the drugs are not they expensive part, i wounder if it could be adminstered as an out patient?
every case of meningitis is different but our girl has come a long way in 5 months.

Hi Welshdoglover. Pred is a good drug and is an immune supressant as well as being an anti inflammatory. The problems occour when its used long term as with my girl. Trouble was she didn't need for the GME any more but her quality of life with such frequent fainting meant she just had to continue with it until it was too late i suppose.
The chemo she had was Cytarabine, given 12hrly over 2 days subcutaniously. It started at 3wk intervals and gradually increased between treatments. In all it lasted 16 months, and apart from her scruff getting thick she had no side effects from the chemo at all. These days this comination of drugs are the accepted treatment so I would discuss with your vet about getting your boy the treatment that may save his life. Where did you get the MRI etc done?
Someone said she thought canine meningitis was getting more frequent. I agree with her. When my girl was being treated I did hours and hours of research. It can be caused by infection, paracites, or more commanly its immune mediated ie the immune system becomes over excited and basically attacks itself. I learnt that my girl (Cas) could never have another vaccination booster for the rest of her life ! I have read that some veterinary professionals believe there may be a connection between meningoencephalitis and vaccination. I know that if I get another dog I'll think twice before annual vaccination.
If I can be of any further help !
Best Wishes

A big Ps as i didn't answer one of your questions. It used to cost about £48 for the vet to give the 4 injections. I used to pay for the cytarabine independently which was about £70 ( it lasted 3-4 bouts of treatment) Then they have to have bloods done a week ater treatment and that was about £45. So your looking at about £ 100 per treatment session. ok
Good luck.

Funny you should mention the annual vaccination peanut.  It got me wondering too as he had his boosters in June, and he started slowing down about the same time so I did wonder whether it was linked.  Don't suppose I'll never know until more research is done on it.

Thanks for the feedback on the chemo, that will be useful should he need to go on that medication.  I went for the MRi down in Bath, brilliant place.  It's just a bit of a trek from wales to bath (not to mention the cost of petrol and bridge toll money, then again he's worth it).