http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/4541889.Sussex_puppy_Louie_needs___4k_operation/

I have read and re read this article and can't see anywhere as to where they got this pup from but reading between the lines it appears that they bred this little Cocker.
I have to agree to some of the comments made on this article about the fact if you are going to breed at least have the money aside to cover things like this or take out a loan, but for requests through the GP for donations i think is a bit rich tbh.

I've not looked into this bone defect but is it that rare and is it something that Cockers are known to sometimes get?

Its a beautiful looking dog but should be PTS (mind you if it was mine I would pay up and give it a chance)
I expect they will get the funds, I havent heard of it as a cocker only problem its more a birth deformity.

hi suejaw
Just had a look at the article,poor little thing.I agree with everything you have said about if you are going to breed you should have enough money put aside to take care of the puppies and also to cover the unlikely event you may get some back at some point for reasons that include illness ,people not coping with a puppy etc.
I also think perhaps they are a little cheeky asking for donations from the general public to help pay for the op but if they have overlooked saving any money(and yes they were silly imo too) or money is just a bit tight due to the current credit crunch,but if they love their puppy like most people would im sure they would be desperate enough to try anything at all to save him.
Having said all that I do hope the little man can have his op to save his legs,hes so cute bless him and I hate to see animals suffer.

>I've not looked into this bone defect but is it that rare and is it something that Cockers are known to sometimes get?

It doesn't say what the condition is, but sounds like carpal subluxation (not a 'rare bone defect', it's loose/weak wrist joints, can be heredity, a growth problem or from an injury). Buster was nearly completely flat-footed at one point (vet wanted to opperate), but it rectified with a change in diet & careful exercise, thanks to the breeders advice, (I must say that the vet did agree with the breeder about getting Buster off of puppy food).
It looks awful, but it doesn't actually harm/hurt them, the risk is arthritis in the wrists (from being at the odd angle) later in life.

ARGHHH, just re-read the article - why on earth would they put him down if he doesn't get the OP????????  Has a specialist really said the dog should be put to sleep if he doesn't get the opperation (without mentioning splinting, hydro-therapy, diet/suppliments?????) or they have given thier sob-story to the paper in the hope the GP will pay for the OP.

I feel sorry for the pup, but the pup doesn't care less, he has flappy, flipper feet and knows no difference, he does not need to be 'put to sleep' if his owners don't get enough money in response to thier sob story. :( :(

Here's a bit on carpal subluxation. I haven't looked at any medicle articles on the condition, but every breeders article I've seen on it agrees that a change in diet with restricted excercise works.

Having read the article, and realising that they had other pups to sell, I do feel that this pups welfare is their responsibility.  They should have taken out a loan and have the operation if they genuinely love the pup. 

My girl had a C-section last year that cost me £1,086 and I took on that responsibility when I made the decision to breed.  I paid with a credit card, and worried about the cost later, when I knew that my girl was safe.  My adult Beardie collapsed with a haemorrhagic tumour on the spleen.  Surgery cost well over £1,000 and they couldn't guarantee that she would live.

Again MY responsibility and we are all accountable for the welfare of pets in our keeping.  Don't keep pets if you don't want vet bills.

So if they bred him, and have sold the others where's the money gone i know you recoupe back what you pay out but its their responsibility to that puppy to do what they can for it. Just my opinion

Such a shame.

Sounds like he wasnt the healthiest puppy from the start if they hand fed him night after night.

Part of me thinks it is survival of the fittest and it would be kinder to put him to sleep and not make him endure endless op's and recovery time. However, i also think it is the breeders responisbilty to fund it, after all, you have to think of costs when you breed and ride the waves between good times - when healthy litters are sold and there are no complications with mum or pups and bad times - when mum or pups may need medical intervention.

I'm sure by putting it in the paper they will get lots of donations and probably wont need to put their hand in the pocket which IMHO is naughty.

My opinion might be unpopular but I too think that the dog should be pts. £4000 is a lot of money and could do a lot of good if donated say to  a rescue center or such like. it could help a lot more dogs rather than just that one.
I am not sure societies attitude today that everything must be kept alive at any cost does dogs any favours. Years ago if a dog was ill or injured or had a bad temperament it was put down. This might have been harsh in some ways but it it meant that things like hereditary defects and dodgy temperaments did not get passed along so easily. nowadays the rescue centers are full of dogs with behaviour problems who are adopted out then as the new family discover the problem they then end up in another rescue center for another family to adopt. The same does happen with health problems. These less than sound dogs also can get bred from which perpetuates the health and temperament problems in some of today's dogs.

The 'breeders' really do take the biscuit!

They should face up to the financial and moral responcibility of the veterinary care this pup needs. If they want to keep him going, then they should pay up and keep him.

Also I cant believe they said 'if there is someone who has the ability to help, and they are a suitable owner, they could keep Louie'...
What!?! My god, they are just soooo generous!
Here you go, one defective pup (with possibly other hidden defects...), you pay the bill, and you carry on paying for after care... Complete joke!

If they cant/wont pay for it themselves, they should have him PTS. I cant believe theyve allowed it to go on this long and then resort to begging and emotion blackmail on the guilable animal loving GP!

Wonders never cease! *rolls eyes*

His owner said his tongue was too small for him to feed as a newborn, does that mean he still has that problem too?

> My opinion might be unpopular but I too think that the dog should be pts. £4000 is a lot of money and could do a lot of good if donated say to  a rescue center or such like. it could help a lot more dogs rather than just that one.
>

Do you think he should be PTS because £4000 is too much to spend on one dog? If so, what would happen to your dogs if they ever needed an expensive opperation? Would you be happy for the insurance company (if you have dog insurance) to pay that amount or would you still think £4000 is too much to spend on one dog, so have the dog PTS? I'm just trying to understand wheather you think dogs are not worth spending large amounts of money on, or wheather you think if one cannot afford the cost of treatment they should have thier dog PTS.

If you think the dog should be PTS soley because of it's condition - why do you think the dog would be better of dead than with loose wrists?

>I am not sure societies attitude today that everything must be kept alive at any cost does dogs any favours. Years ago if a dog was ill or injured or had a bad temperament it was put down. This might have been harsh in some ways but it it meant that things like hereditary defects and dodgy temperaments did not get passed along so easily

I know nothing about breeding, but I can guesse that its the parents of defective dogs that need illiminating form the gene pool as they have proven to produce undesirable off-sping. Simply killing the defective puppies is just hiding the problem. Of course dogs with problems should not be bred from, but neither should thier parents and I never see anybody saying it would be better for the future of dogs if all dogs that produced these less-than-perfect puppies were killed!

I am glad I wasn't a member of this forum when my pup went down on his pasterns, I shudder to think of the advice I would have recieved :( But then again, he was sorted without the opperation - just like many other dogs that go down on thier pasterns, as I've said further up the thread.
Here is a little snippet in support of my waffle taken from here:

"The interesting and surprising thing that I learned from recent reports is that some improvement to the point of apparently resuming normalcy is sometimes possible with manipulation of the nutritional intake of the dog. While much of the survey response had nothing to do with the disorder, a recurring theme and the most likely approach to use in improving both the weak pastern and the true subluxated joint, is the lowering of protein level in the diet." by Fred Lanting

But then again, what would this man know, he's not a canine orthapedic specialsit (ie. somebody making a living from performing bone-surgeries on dogs), these are his only credentials :
A well-respected and frequent GSD specialty and all-breed judge for many clubs around the world, with KC and other-country credentials, Mr. Lanting since 1966 has lectured on Gait-and-Structure, Canine Orthopedic Disorders, and other topics, and has judged in about 30 countries, including the prestigious FCI Asian Shows hosted by Japan Kennel Club and the KC of India, the Scottish Kennel Club, and many National Specialties in the USA and elsewhere. He has been described by a former OFA director as the world's leading non-veterinarian authority on hip dysplasia. A dog breeder since 1945, a GSD owner since 1947, and a show judge since 1979, he has lectured at numerous veterinary schools in the USA and abroad. He is the author of "must read" books for the dog owner (see below for ordering info).  Curriculum Vitae available upon request.

> If they cant/wont pay for it themselves, they should have him PTS. I cant believe theyve allowed it to go on this long and then resort to begging and emotion blackmail on the guilable animal loving GP!
>
>

Well ive been thinking of this poor little puppy all day after reading this thread and watching the vid and I see what you are saying.Emotional blackmail certainly hits the spot when it needs to, I wouldnt say I see myself as guilable though just very caring about all animals,especially ill ones i cant help it. I dont have a lot of spare cash but im seriously thinking if I can get some together I will donate as I just cant bear it.Also I know I wouldnt be able to pay for all his vets bills in the future as I doubt being a pre existing illness anyone would cover him so I couldnt take him on full time but still why do I feel so bad that I cant take on this dog which is what I would love to. I think I will probably have a sleepless night over it tonigh if im honest and hes not even my dog.
Why do these things have to happen?

Well guys it seems the local people have been stepping up and have been donating towards his operation. My colleagues were as shocked as we all are as well about this.
Yep there was a small article in yesterday's paper that people have been putting money forward for this little mite.

I still can't comprehend why they couldn't of found the money themselves or got a loan, guess we just will never know their financial situation. But if they don't have the money to pay for this as its been mentioned before they shouldn't be breeding.