I am very new to the world of Breeding, and am learning all the time, so please be gentle with me. Your thoughts please.  My bitch is 1 year old, she is KC registered.  I have been granted my kennel name, and have a Accredited Breeders Certificate.  My girl has a clear eye cert,and has been hipscored today,vet says the plates are worth sending off.

In my search to find my girl a suitable stud for next year, I have sent several peeps her 5 generation pedigree.  I was contacted this evening from a breeder of 24 years asking if I had bred before, to which I explained that I was new to the world of breeding.  She went on to say that in my girls generation there were 2 puppy farmers i.e. grt grt grandparents, and that was she breed standard and that she may be ok for family pet but not for showing:(

I am terribly upset, I didnt know this information regarding puppy farmers in her lines::((  I have found a very good stud boy with a very good pedigree, mother was a champion and he has all current health checks in place.  Do I continue, to improve her lines or give up now, or do I develop a thick skin and carry on.

Any advise please.

Looking at you girls pedigree TBH really honest I would cherish her as a pet & if you want to breed join the breed club, go to shows & talk to breeders/owners/judges etc. When thinking about breeding the advise I was given many years ago, was to buy the very best bitch & take her to a dog who produces puppies without her faults & who has the same strengths as she has.

I would say that the majority of her pedigree are pets at best & puppy farmed at worse. There is only one dog on the fourth generation of any known quality.

Sorry if this isn't what you want to hear

Thank you for your honesty:(

Bearing in mind ive not seen the pedigree and dont know the breed...

I would say show her, see how she does, enjoy the process and absorb as much information as you can.

She is only 1 year old so shes not 'done' yet I wouldnt imagine, and if you show her and talk to people about her AND... look at other peoples dogs and honestly compare them to your dog, you will see where and why she is lacking and shouldnt be bred from.

That said, you may... just may... find she turns out nice despite some of her background and that *might* be worth breeding from... that is a very tentative might as I say i dont know the breed and havent seen her pedigree and I will say if Moonmaiden doesnt think shes breeding potential then she isnt likely to be, but (as far as i konw) none of us have set eyes on her...

It does sound like breeding from her will be a BIG risk and at the end of it all you have to decide, armed with as much information as you can possibly get, whether you think its a risk worth taking. She could, with the aid of a fantastic stud, produce offspring better than herself - but.... if shes NOT going to produce offspring that are as good/better than other pups being produced... then even if shes improving on her self shes not improving the breed as a whole...and that should be your main aim.

And of course along wtih the chance that she produces offspring better than herself, she could produce offspring that throw-back to her ancestors who were worse...

So go, show her, see her lined up against others, let her grow and in the meantime do lots and lots of research....

what if this person was just being a bit unkind abut a rival who breeds a lot of puppies??? Might be worth getting to a few shows and getting some judges opinions.....unles you have a minority breed with 2 or 3 per class, you will soon find yourself  well placed or chucked out depending on bitches merits!

Oh you have removed your website from the your profile. was going to have another look today at the pedigree and see if any of the ggp affix's bring anything up. I would be doing that and see what he net brings up for you

Not knowing your intentions and why you choose to breed dogs - I can only give general advice for someone who wishes to test their puppies in the realm of showing.....
Starting with a less than excellent bitch may go either way.
Mate her to a top dog and you may get a good one, a flyer even but
subsequent pups, including those of the flyer, may revert to the lesser dogs in the pedigree.

It depends whether you are happy to tinker around the sidelines for a while or have higher ambitions. And are you are in for the long term - where you want to produce a line of dogs which reproduce quality....consistantly?

The advice for long term success is usually start with the best - mate it to the best - keep the best.

In my original breed I started with a very well bred bitch who was not a stunner herself (and would never have won) but produced a stud book quality litter first time off.
It can be done both ways....breeding up from a poor pedigree or buying the best....one is quicker ( if you can get hold of a top quality bitch)

It's all horses for courses IMHO

if it is quite far down her pedigree, i would start showing to see if she was breed standard, if she doesnt get placed dont worry.
talk to breeders etc.

but i would have to think hard to whether or not to breed. i dont think i would. you are an ADB.

If you have a one year old bitch it would be best to show her for a year or so , see how she does and then take it from there.

You are two steps ahead of yourself unless you want to be just a breeder in the world of pet breeders.  I think personally you have to find out how good she is and ask yourself why you even want to breed.

My website is back on my profile.  I have been thinking very hard and I have decided to put things on the back burner for now.  I do however think maybe the world of showing for me and my girl is a no no:(, as for breeding her I will await the results of her hipscores before I go anyfurther.

I thank you for your advise and honesty.

A good hip score & clear eyes are not the reason to breed puppies from any dog. I am close friends with one of the more experienced OES people & he's rarely had more than 2 OES & only bred a very few litters, however all his dogs have been super typical OES, lovely temperaments & characters as well as healthy & long lived. He has more than 40 years in the breed & would never consider breeding from anything, but a well bred typical bitch. He's bred champions & bought in OES that he has made up. I value his opinion on OES he has no bias, he doesn't breed enough or have stud dogs to view anyone as a "threat"to his puppy sales(no has only ever bred for himself)

Why not show your bitch at the smaller shows & see how you do before venturing into the Championship Shows. Presentation & the correct coat & structure are very important in OES

Is it me, I was worried about one main thing in this post and that was the comment re. the vet!  I hate it when people have dogs x-rayed to be hipscored and then the vets don't send them off as they think it would affect maybe the breed average score.  I believe that anyone who takes an x-ray to be hipscored should be made to send it off for scoring.

Ooooooh id missed that, good point! Theres naff all point in a scoring system if only the good ones get sent off!

Why do you think showing isnt for you?... I think this is a big error, I cant really see how you can get a good feel for the dogs in the breed, peoples preferences, your preferences etc etc... ifyou dont show (unless ive missed it and you work your dogs in some other activity).

Whilst I definately do not think that winning at shows is the be all and end all of breeding, I dont think anyone ought to breed if they dont at the very LEAST attend shows, even if they dont show their dog. If you only ever look at your own dog or photos of dogs you think you like, and never see them in action, how can you truly know whats 'good' out there and whats not.

Ive seen dogs in pictures (though talking deerhounds here) that ive really liked... gone to shows and seen them in the flesh and thought 'ew no.... not for me'. Equally ive seen photos of dogs and thought 'whaaaat why did that win' and then later on seen them in the flesh and realised the dog is fantastic and moves like a dream.

As I think Moonmaiden said... hipscores and eyes and wahtever other 'good' test results are just the starting block, theres a long long way and a lot of hoops of fire to leap through before a bitch is worth breeding. You are only at the start of that process.

To answer your question re. vet, my vet expressed an opinion that they were worth sending off.  They were sent off that very same day!!!! I will attend some shows, just to reafirm to me that the world of show people are not for me!!!!!

I came on here asking for advise, I got it, thanks.

There are some really nice people at shows and some who are real horrors :-D , just like everywhere else :-D . If you think that your dog is a good example of the breed then it is certainly worthwhile going along and seeing how she gets on. We haven't shown for years and we never won at crufts or got a CC, but it was fun and we learned a lot about the breeds we had at the time. I don't breed and have no intention of ever breeding but it is interesting to see what is winning and what is not and if you can find a friendly exhibitor at the ringside who will explain the good and bad points so much the better! There are quite a few puppies out there sold as pets that have gone on to do very well in the show ring as well as lots of with show potential that have done nothing - the point is that until you have shown your dog under a few different judges you won't know if your dog is a good example or not. Regardless of whether she wins at shows or not you will still take the best dog home!

But if he expressed an opinion that they were worth sending off does that mean that previously when he's felt that they weren't worth it he hasn't?  My vet sends mine off no matter what he may think the outcome will be.

Umm I'm a show person and have to say the comment really grates on me,  I'm a normal person who enjoys a day out with my dogs and people who enjoy having dogs also.  Luckily there aren't that many people in the show world that I wouldn't want to spend time with.

> I will attend some shows, just to reafirm to me that the world of show people are not for me!!!!!

Mmmm, why don't you attend some shows with an open mind and a friendly manner and you might be surprised, seems better than going in determined not to like it and intending to find fault!

Ill be the first to admit, there are some people out there in dog showing who have questionable motives and attitudes I do not like.... but on the whole, I can honestly state I have met FAR more friendly, kind, open, honest people who love their dogs, than I have ever met rotters.

This is absolutely no different to ANY group of people with a common interest, theres a load of nice ones, and theres one or two bumfaces, and thats just the way life is.

I think you might have got the wrong end of the stick WRT comments about vets sending off hip xrays - we know your vet sent your bitches off the same day, you said that in the first post. Its not *you* we were questioning, its this concept some VETS (and yes some breeders too) seem to have, of only sending off the good xrays. Since the value of hip scores lies in the number of dogs being scored.. if the average score is not averge for the breed but average for the 'good ones of the breed'... then it starts to get a bit pointless!

I will attend some shows, just to reafirm to me that the world of show people are not for me!!!!!

What, you don't get on with people who love dogs?