Hello,
I'm off work with a back injury and so thought I'd make use of my time off by asking some silly questions related to my satanic, evil, male dobermann called Hugo. He's 18 months old, huge and very energetic. He's the most adoring, devoted chap I've ever had and I used to love walking him until he started to jump barbed wire fences and 6' hedges and disappear off on his own little sprints around fields and woodlands. He seems to just be running off his excess energy which I sympathise with as we also have an American Beagle, Bert, whose legs are about 2mm long and our walks tend to be slower to allow him to do his sniffing but keep up with us. We're always out for a minimum of an hour, at least once a day.

Hugo will disappear for 4 or 5 minutes, running at top speed jumping streams, ditches, tracks, gates & fences. This worries me as no doubt one day he'll break his legs and it will be my fault cos I can't train him to stay in my sight. We're very alert to putting him on the lead if we pass cattle/sheep/other dogs etc but sometimes we get caught out, or the the cattle are three or four fields away and we haven't spied them, so off he hurtles and he'll half heartedly chase them until he gets bored. I'm fully aware of what will happen to him if he's caught doing this or worse, catches one. It gets worse the longer the walk as he seems to warm up and listen to me even less. He always comes back, usually covered in scratches and minor nicks. I bought a mountain bike so that we could go longer and further in the hope he'd just try and stay with the bike, but alas, my plan failed and I nearly ended up in the canal one day so this was abandoned.

We've just ordered one of these collars that gives the dog an electric shock when they misbehave etc I'm assuming it's just a distraction technique to give you time to bang in a command that he'll hopefully listen to, if he disobeys then it gets uncomfortable for him. What's the consensus on these collars? Has anyone ever tried one? Or is there a better way? His obedience in every other respect is very good, his recall is perfect - as long as he's not further than 20 feet away from you. We've not tried the collar yet - it's really a last resort that we'd prefer not to use if there's a better way to enjoy our walks once again.

Waiting in hope of a miracle...

Jaime

Please, please join the board as a member. It is free. You can actually join in by posting again, which I'm sure in this case you're going to need to! There are members on here who have young male dobes who will no doubt be in touch!
LynnT

Seeing as Jaime has asked me to respond - there are no miracles in dog training as most of us have learnt the hard way, just hard work and persistance. The recall, to be reliable must just about be brainwashed into the dog so that when you call him he comes before he has even had chance to think about it.

Regarding collars - imagine the scene. Dog charging around and approaching a ewe, you zap with collar and on reciving the buzz the closest thing is the sheep which gets blamed for the feeling and dog, in his hyped up state tears it to pieces. Thereafter buzzing with collar is assocated with sheep because that is what happened the first time because he did not understand your explanation that you wished him to return to you when using it. IMO collars should only be used by very experienced trainers who have the ability to get the timing right and should not be freely available for any inexperienced owner to use.

By all means have fun with a dog but make sure that the fun is under control and does not expose other living creatures to risk

Christine

The ONLY time I have ever seen e-collars used to good effect was with *stock* worrying. But, you must know what you are doing. Timing is crucial :-)

Oh yes,please join :D I have a 13/14 month dobe and I do like to hear of fellow sufferers :D
Liz

Welcome to the forum Jaime :-)

Sorry to hear about your back, but as you have so much time on your hands, you will be able to do a *search* using the facility in the top right hand corner of the forum page and read lots of past threads on e-collars ;-) You can register here

Hi, my inlaws have bought a similar collar for their dog, they didn't have him from a puppy and though in every other way he has improved drastically in training, they couldn't get him to return to them (whenever my husband and I look after him he remains on a long lead, that was something we were resigned to).
The collar they have does administer a shock, but it has a "warning" function that would just make a noise - just a slight buzzing is all we can hear. I guess the idea being that if he doesn't respond to that then he gets the shock. As far as I know they have never had to give the shock, the noise surprised him so much that he returned :) And now I think they have got to the point that if he is in sight and call his name and hold up the remote so he can see it he comes running back.

I suppose the next step would be returning just at the call - but it is such an improvement from the way he was.

:)

Hi arwenwulf. Can I ask what training your inlaws had in the use of their e collar? Formal training by a person qualified in there use or just reading the words on the box?

John

Personally I hate the things (the Electric collars - not Dobes:D)! I think you have to be extremely cautious going down that route , and if there is no other option (surely there must be!) then please please have a professional trainer (I don't actually know of any that are willing to use them) help you!
Please don't take the above as critism of you, its not meant that way in the slightest:) welcome to the forum:) julie:)

Ps You are definitely not alone! I'm the proud owner of some EXTREMELY naughty dogs!!!!:D

Ah, there's me spouting off when I don't know the full story (again!) :o
OK, firstly, I don't know the brand name of the collar so I can't say specifically which one it was. I think they had spoken to a friend who had used it with good results on their dog, but again I don't know what sort of training (if any) the friend had had. I don't know where they bought the collar from or if they were given any professional advice when they did - they are very good friends with the local vet so they *may* have spoken to him first, but again I don't know. They haven't been to any formal classes with him (at least I am 99% certain they haven't), just using the same training techniques as they have with previous dogs.

Do these collars need formal training to use them? Would there not therefore be restrictions on the selling of them? Sorry if I have spoken out of turn, I was using this as anecdotal evidence of *one* situation where the collar has been successful - but I wasn't aware you might need training to use them. I guess they could be open to abuse, but then so can a collar and lead (I'm thinking specifically of the American so-called dog trainer Stephen King - not the writer).

Sorry for the long-winded reply ;)

All I will say is that in Denmark they are illegal. They are illegal except under licence in Sweden and moves are afoot to have them banned in quite a few other countries. I personally detest their free availability in this country. I acknowledge their use under certain circumstances but as a general training tool, NO!

Regards, John

Hi Jamie,

I am sorry but your post has brought a smile to my face as it brings back the training of my boxer bitch she was a lunatic until she was 2 and I mean lunatic. She actually jumped at me one day and knock me unconscious in the park. So I can relate to what you are going through.

She could until she was about 14 months leap 6 ft fences, I had to put trellis on top of the 6 ft fence. By 14 months she had filled out and could not reach it.

I can't really speak for Dobermann but there are a few knowledgeable Dobermann owners and breeders here who can help.

Just thought I would welcome you and tell you, that you are not alone.

BFN

Pam

You need Kerioak- but BethN will sympathise- try typing 'Mockodile' into a search on this forum:) The posts speak for himself:D

Stacey x x x

Greetings,
I hope you don't mind my asking...but when you tried the bicycle out with your dog, was he loose or did you keep him on leash? It does make a difference. Did you start out slowly to get you both accustomed to being next to one another? I had to work with my dogs for a week before we had our 'patterns' down enough to switch to offleash trail biking.

IMO, You do have to have your dog used to (by habit) staying/heeling on one side of you when you are walking to be successful biking off leash. Otherwise, it's a comedic disaster in the making!! :D :rolleyes: Switching from right to left or sudden stopping by a dog in front of the bike is not fun at all :(

Perhaps you might try out the "springer" fastener that some on here use to exercise their dogs. I'd ditch the cheap string that comes along with it and use a chain/leather connector... The idea is to have enough looseness in the restraint to provide maneuverability, but not enough to cause tangles and chaos

Once you get him used to trotting alongside you, eventually offleash biking is much easier. I honestly think the dog has to learn that you don't have as much control in maneuverability as s/he does.
He also has to learn to pay attention to YOU when you're doing this. So a refocus from "Out there" to "on YOU" is necessary.... I use occasional treats and the 'fear of abandonment' to help maintain my dogs focus. I think every dog is different, so you'll have to discover what can get his attn. Of course, some of that 'roaming' and 'racing off' can be just due to raging male teenage hormones. :rolleyes: :P :)
hth.
good luck with your 'beast' :)
toodles

Many thanks for all your posts, I could hear all the sniggering and gales of laughter at my plight from here!

Re the bike training, we've been practising for a month. We train on towpaths (nice sraight lines and no hills - hurrah!) Hugo is on a 3-4ft leash (long enough to stop when he wees, short enough to not get in front of the bike) which is attached to my left handle. This can be released at any time if things start to go wrong. He's very good at just trotting alongside with some sprinting inbetween, the problem occurs when we meet another dog. Hugo holds back until the last minute then lunges at the dog across the front of my bike dragging me & my bike after him until he's satisfied that he's put the living fear inside the other person/dog. Then off he trots, little stump wagging happily, leaving a trail of disaster after him. I've tried stopping when we meet another dog & dumping the bike to retain control of Hugo (who is only playing after all!) but this makes him realise that other dogs are important and his guard goes up - I'd prefer him to ignore other dogs completely therefore I've also tried to sneakily cycle faster past them with Hugo trailing after me but then the thug puts in a really good emergency stop and the bike & I part company. Don't forget I've also got Bert the Beagle weaving in and around the bike with all this commotion. We do let Hugo loose when it's quiet, but it doesn't stop him from running off into fields and we still have to put him on the lead when other dogs are about. We'll continue to do the bikes when we can but really it needs two of us to control bikes & dogs therefore keeping the public safe from 'The Beast'.

As I type, Hugo is lying at my feet, all four legs dangling in the air proudly presenting all his assets, four feet of pink tongue lolling attractively out the side of his mouth and glazed eyes staring at me with disinterest. They never put pictures like that on calendars do they?!

Lady G

Sorry, I know I should not laugh but I have got tears running down my face at the *picture* you have just painted :D

Welcome to my world :D
I think you are sooo brave going on the bike -I struggle to stay on my feet !!!!
I hope you realise that you have sent myself ( Liz ..although it says steve at the top ) and probably Beth N into a blind panic !! We both have young male dobes and we've been assured that they'll calm down at about 18 months
Well thats out the window now !!!!!
Hugo sounds very like my Murphy -lovely when he's asleep ( in all his glory !!)
Murph always gets his bits out for the inlaws
They think he's going to eat them ( if only !) -mind you the're not coming for christmas this year ( first time in nine yrs ) so he's been worth every penny just for that :D
I'm sure Beth will be along soon to say hello
Liz :)

No modesty whatsoer, aye??? :P :)
Ah, makes me very glad for my 'gels' :) :D (no, they're not Dobes, sorry :) )

Sara -It is absolutley shameless
and he knows when youre trying to impress and does it even more :D
We had the house valuers round last week and I'm trying to talk sense to this man whilst IT was shredding blankets and rattling his crate so much the poor fellow left ,
It was like trying to hold a conversation with a velosoraptor in the same room .
Liz

With regards to his assets - he always feels the need to sit on his haunches and stick out his 'lipstick' at full length when he meets someone new. Honestly! Men!

Oh the lipstick is out at every opportunity ...if you put the kettle on -there it is
when you get the food out ......there it is
It's vile -bit like those things Leighs dog eats --what was it ...pizzles??
Yak Yak Yak
Liz

>>bit like those things Leighs dog eats

EXCUSE ME! my dogs do not eat pizzles ... LOL :P

sorry Leigh I thought you said they loved them cos they stank !!!!( can't see any other attraction :D )
must have read it wrong :(
Liz ;)
I've just been back and looked and your right you didn't say they ate them BUT if the dogs don't then who does and how do you know they stink ?????:D :D
just very intrigued ;)

Welcome to MY world too. Hudson , my soon to be 1 year old (if I let him live) constantly expects his lipstick and crown jewels to attract adulation and plaudits from everyone within a 2 mile radius.

*sigh*

I never realised that the paperboy/neighbour/cat/toy /...anything else was quite so attractive in canine terms

:D

Melody