Hello everyone,

I am close to utter panic as I type this.

My beloved soul mate who is now 14 years old is not in a good way.

Some history - 12 months ago he was diagnosed with chronic renal failure. The vet said my vigilance had caught it at a fairly early stage. A diet change and the addition of omega 3 has greatly improved his urea and creatinine levels. He is now due for his next blood level check.

However, 8 days ago (Saturday night - always the same!) he started peeing fresh blood. Off to the vet where a catheter was passed to check for blockages. All clear. Urinalysis showed blood and leucocytes present. Diagnosis of UTI and antibiotics. All went well. Stopped antibiotics as prescribed - two days later and the appearance of fresh blood again. Back to the vet last night. Various possibilities discussed but, seeing as he responded to antibiotics, agreed on a 3 week course of different antibiotics (Baytril) to clear up any persistent infection. If no improvement in a few days, we would re-evaluate.

I came home tonight. He was unable to stand. Balance seemed completely gone - head tilted to one side. Now, this has happened a few times over the past couple of years but he recovered within minutes. Vets unable to find cause. Not had an episode for perhaps 6 months. However, this time seems to be persisting for longer. He is now able to stand, still with a head tilt, unsteady gait and will stumble. Head is held quite low. When walking he is veering to the side of the head tilt. Still wanting to eat. Passing urine fine. No bowel movement since this morning (not unusual). He has now settled into bed and sleeping deeply.

My mind is flying through various options and, of course, tomorrow a vets appointment will be made. I just wondered if anyone had any thoughts on possibilities.

This old man is my soulmate. A sleepless night for me I think.

Many thanks for any advice anyone might have

Sorry to hear this about your old boy.
When you look at his eyes are/is the inner eyelid/3rd eyelid flickering across the eye?
It may be a Vestibular Incident....
Common signs of vestibular syndrome include falling, head tilt (rotation of the head with one ear held lower than the other), flickering of the eyeball from side-to-side or up and down (nystagmus), general wobbliness (often with the dog drifting to one side as he moves around) and/or circling.
Vivitonin is often given by the vet but often rights itself without medication.

Ask your vet.

Thank you so much for your kind reply.

In the past, during previous similar episodes, his eyeballs have rolled upwards and flickered. This time, I can't recall that happening. Of course, I was in utter panic (although trying to remain extremely calm for him) so can't say this was something I have noticed. He is now out for the count and I am reluctant to stir him whilst he is resting.

I have considered the Vestibular Incident after reading about it tonight. I was rather surprised to read that strokes are quite uncommon in dogs. To be honest, I am hoping it might be this given the recovery seems quite positive.

I have a feeling I will have to call in sick to work tomorrow with some human illness. Not many people are understanding that our dogs sometimes need us close by as much as children need their parents!

My anxiety levels are through the blinking roof!

Thanks again, it really is appreciated

I was right - 3am and it's a sleepless night! Every little noise and I'm jumping up to check on the old boy - of course, he is fast asleep and oblivious to it all!

They can be such a worry but, more so than loreal - they're worth it!

I am sorry, I know nobody here knows me and here I am bombarding the forum with posts.

He lost his balance a number of times this morning when I let him out to pee. He was trying to eat breakfast but the food seemed to be falling from his mouth. I sat and hand fed him. He looked at me with those brown eyes as if to say "mum, what's happening to me"?

I am absolutely fearing the worst and am close to meltdown. My vet is a 30 minute drive away so I am going to set off at 8.00am to arrive for them opening at 8.30am. I don't even want to wait until they open to call. That seems too long to wait.

Please, please let him recover from this.

Colliecrew - you go ahead and bombard us - sometimes you just need to know that someone out there is listening and there is little that puts you through the wringer quite like a pet.

I'm thinking of you both this morning.  ((((((((((Cyber hugs))))))))))) xxx 

Has the vet checked his prostate? Blood in the urine can be a symptom of prostate problems as well as urinary tract problems.

Fingers crossed the his other problems are vestibular syndrome which will right itself with time. Good luck!

Hi, so sorry your going through this. i do hope the vet sorts this out.
You mentioned a possible stroke which was the thing i thought of as soon as i read your post.
i saw on a vets program an old dog with the same problems as yours, head to the side etc the vet said this dog had a mild stroke and with medication he did recover but the head tilt may not go back to normal only time would tell. After treatment the dog was happy in it's self but needed to carry on with medication.
I'm not saying this is what your dog has but at least if it is then it shows that dogs can recover from this.
fingers crossed for you both.

I have no advice but just wanted to say I'll be watching for an update and I'm keeping everything crossed for your lovely old boy.

Oh dear they do put us through the wringer at times don't they. I have no advice but am thinking of you this morning. I hope the vet has some answers for you. Fingers and paws all crossed for you here. Hope the news is encouraging.
Having just had an awfull month with mine I can imagin how you are feeling. My heart goes out to you.
Aileen and the girlies xxxx

Any news?

Hello all and so many thanks for your kind thoughts and wishes.

Well, it's a vestibular incident. Never thought that would bring relief! The vet said he has all the classic signs particularly with the flickering of the eyes. You wouldnt actually notice this without studying but we held his head and the vet pointed out the slow movement to one side and then the rapid flicker to the opposite side.

I have spent the day catching up on some sleep and hand feeding him small amounts of food. He can now stand for a limited time but walking is a real problem. The vet hopes that over the next 7 days I will see an improvement. He wasn't keen to commence vivitonin but feels we should monitor for any future episodes and then consider this as an option.

Jeangenie - yes, we had the prostate checked as far as possible (eg rectal examination) but the vet didn't feel anything untoward. I had another dog with a prostate infection some years ago and he displayed similar symptoms (frank blood towards the end of his peeing). He had to go through a prostate wash which sounds awful. I would be extremely anxious if my old man had to go through this.

Of course, I have now come away wishing I had asked more questions of my vet but I was all over the place this morning. I did ask about continuing the Baytril for the next 3 weeks and was advised to keep with this treatment. One thing I am unsure about - do I encourage him to walk or to rest? The vet said something about the brain adjusting so I am assuming that perhaps encouraging gentle potters out to the garden should be encouraged? The other part of me wants to cosy him in a crate to ensure his safety. Does anyone have any ideas on this?

I can't thank you all enough. Most people don't understand just what I do and sacrifice for my dogs (a holiday? Not a chance! lol) Fingers crossed for improvement over the next few days - it's simply awful to see him this way.

xxx

course, I have now come away wishing I had asked more questions of my vet but I was all over the place this morning.
I think you have done really well - I wish I'd know of this forum to ask quetions ofnever mind the vets.  One of my soulmates I had PTS 2 1/2 years ago and I feel so guilty that she may have had something similar - maybe a stroke or somethig but I didn't questin my vet enough about what was wrong with her.  Ok she'd had lots of problems - sever Hip dysplasia and arthritus, thyroid problems etc but maybe if I had asked the questions you are, and with the help you're getting on here maybe she'd have had another year or 2 of quality time
You're doing the best you possibly can - and don't forget [despite my maudlin comments] the last loving thing you can do for your dog is .. when you've exhausted all other possibilities - hope I don't offend or upset by this.

Excellent news.
Being a vestibular incident is the best news in the circumstances for an old dog - could have been so much worse.

Now the most important bit of his recovery is reassurance...it's a pretty terrifying experience for an old chap and he will be very scared.
Dont push him to do anything stressful like walks etc until he asks. He feels rather like he's on the top of a very narrow cliff edge and very frightened to move - dont make him.
He will recover and may recover all his faculties but it will take time - dont test him - just spoil him. :-)

Best wishes for his complete recovery.

I just wanted to offer you a little support and reassure you that things can get better.

Charlie had a "stroke", with similar symptoms to you old chap, nearly 4 years ago. The head tilt and going round in circles lessened over a period of about 2-3 weeks and he was put on vivitonin straight away. 3 months after that he had to have his spleen removed and recovered from that remarkably quickly. Only in the last few months has he been unable to go for walks, but is still active about the house and garden and can hear a crisp packet being opened 3 rooms away!

Yesterday he went for his 6-monthly MOT and the vet couldn't believe what great shape he was in considering his age (he'll be 17 in October!).

So, think positive, hopefully your old boy will be around for a while yet if he's anything like mine!

Thank you thank you thank you!

Toolz - you are totally right. Reassurance is most certainly the key and I will take his guidance on his recovery. He seems to have areas of the house he feels more safe being in - my bedroom seems to be his chosen spot!

Pedlee - thank you for this story of hope. I do hope my boy is here for some time to come.

Please don't feel guilt over your dog. You have to be guided by a vet. That's what we pay them for. That said, you must have faith in your own vet. I moved house some two years ago but still make a half hour journey to my vet rather than use a local one. I have absolute trust in him.

Jaff is still very wobbly. Head tilt still very pronounced. He refused any breakfast this morning but my vet told me to expect this. He ate yesterday though but I guess the nausea is worse at some times than others. I did persuade him to drink by adding natural yoghurt to some cold water. However, he did eat his tea tonight - although not with the gusto he usually would.

He's at my feet snoozing at the moment and for that I am so thankful.

xxxx

The blessing of old dogs...they sleep a lot :-)
This will make things easier for him...and you!

If you just keep remembering that ( for now) he will feel as if he's going to fall and will behave accordingly, this will pass and his confidence will grow.

Hi
Please ask your vet for Vivitonin.  My collie, aged 12 was very ill, she had 3 'vestibular attacks' over a 3 month period as well as suffering facial paralysis (unrelated).  They said Vivitonin was not licences for Vestibular Syndrome, but they found that in a lot of cases it did help.  Jess has been fine for 11 months now, in her case it has definitely helped prevent further attacks.  Good luck with your old boy.

Hi Colliedancer

Glad to hear Jess is doing well - such a worry isn't it?

My vet was not keen to commence vivitonin at this stage. We did discuss it but he feels it would only be appropriate to consider if Jaff has a further episode. He says that in his experience most dogs will not have a repeat episode. He also seemed slightly unconvinced that it works with vestibular syndrome. I have to say, if Jaff does have another episode then I would be quite keen to try this medication. However, I agree that putting him on a life long medication for one attack when he might not have another seems an over reaction. My vets own dog had a vestibular incident two years ago aged 13. He is now 15 and had no further attacks. It was similar to when my other dog had his first seizure. We held off with meds to see what the future brought. Sadly, he did go on to require meds.

My vet said that two of the most disturbing things to see in a dog are vestibular syndrome and epilepsy. Sadly my dogs have had to go through both!

Hope Jess stays well :)

xx

Well, Jaff is slowly progressing. However, his appetite is still fairly poor (particularly in the morning for some reason). I am more concerned about his fluid intake. He is in chronic renal failure and currently is being treated for a UTI so it's even more important I encourage fluids.

My question is - how do you encourage a dog to drink more? Natural yoghurt in a little water sometimes work - ice cubes are a no go. Any tips would be gratefully received :)

xxx

A little glucose in the water, let him drink then throw away and wash bowl.
Milk, just a splash in the water bowl, offered then throw away...many folk make the mistake of adding stuff to water and leaving it or just leaving water to get stale and neither are attractive to drink.

If the worst comes to the worst I will always syringe water into the corner of the mouth at regular intervals.

Chicken soup ?

2 chicken drumsticks
1 carrot
1 potato
parsley
1 stock cube
This one is really easy - just cover the chicken and
chopped up veg with boiling water and simmer on a low
heat for thirty minutes. Then fish out the chicken, remove
the bones and return the meat to the pan. Sprinkle in the
parsley and allow to cool. Best served slightly warm.

I just wanted to offer my sincere thanks to everyone who has posted on this thread :)

Jaff is slowly making progress. Tonight he even managed a little run down the garden...before promptly falling over...and getting straight back up to bark at the grass for tripping him up! I am still having to hand feed him but hey ho...we can cope with that.

I am in regular phone contact with my vet. Over the years we have developed an excellent working relationship and he is quite happy for me to call for advice if I feel an appt is not totally necessary. I was slightly concerned about the tremors that Jaff is having when he is awake. My vet says that this is common with vestibular syndrome but, if it continues, we may have to consider an MRI scan. At the moment, we are content with the fact that he is slowly making daily progress.

The past two weeks have been terrible and I am horrified at the reactions of some people - even those with dogs..."oh well, he's old...perhaps you should have him put down". It was as though I could discard him as if he was a skirt that didn't fit me any longer! Forums like these remind me that there are people who feel for their dogs as I do....I am not a raving lunatic! Some people have even said...."oh wow, this must be costing you a fortune". Like I actually care how much it costs??!! I would sell the last thing I own if my dogs needed vet attention. Anyway, isn't this the very reason why God invented credit cards? lol

So, thank you from me and from Jaff....and give those pups a big old hug tonight

xxx

:( Jaff had another "incident" today. It's not as serious as the last one but significant nonetheless. It's just awful to see him this way - and he was doing so well!

Anyway, it was back to the vet. Long discussion and decided to try him on Vivitonin. My vet isn't convinced of the effectiveness of this medication but felt, given the short time scale between incidents, we should try it.

I just feel that he is too old to be going through this and it's so distressing to see him stumbling around and falling over.

All this two days after getting great news on his renal function blood tests - phosphorus and urea levels normal and creatinine just slightly raised :)

I feel so helpless to make him better.

xxxx

Give the Vivitonin a try, it may well help. As I've said before, Charlie has been on it for about 4 years now. Whether he'd still be here if he wasn't taking the Vivitonin I don't know, but while he's still OK I'll keep giving it to him.

Fingers (and paws) crossed here for Jaff.

my old boy a rough collie suffered from epilepsy he was on pheno and vivitonin for many years he began when he was 7yrs and lived until he was 15 and half well past the normal lifespan of a rough .

Hope you see some improvement .

R~

You poor thing, I know exactly how you feel.

Try the vivitonin, we were advised that in our boy it would make no effect as he is too young but I know with our very old dog it did help generally and you have nothing to lose by using it and it is one of the suggested treatments. I hope he improves again for you.

Well, this morning and Jaff is worse :(

He does not want to move at all and is refusing all food and water. He also had a slight dose of the loose stool but I think that might be related to the antibiotics.

Goal for today - to at least get some fluids into him and to keep him comfy. All plans of trips to Edinburgh for the Craft fair have been firmly cancelled.

Thank you everyone for your kind thoughts

xxx

How is Jaff today? did you manage to get any fluids/food in to him?

Positive thought going your way

Thanks red :)

This is just a nightmare to be honest. Last night he managed some food only to vomit it all back up a wee while later :(

Today has been better on that front. I am feeding him a small handful of food every hour (oddly he will not look at his usual diet which is soaked in water but will eat it dry!) and that seems to be working. Fluids have been a nightmare. Today I went out and got a large syringe in preparation for syringing fluids in to him - cue long questions from the pharmacist about my need for a syringe and measuring cup lol

In complete despair at trying to get him to drink and trying every trick up my sleeve, I tried a little ice cream on my finger - success! So, I am now giving him a half teaspoon of icecream in some water and he's taken a fair amount of fluid this evening. I know icecream is not great for a dog, especially one with kidney problems, so please nobody give me a hard time :(

My other choice is to have him hospitalised. I just don't know what to do. He would be miserable at the vet and I am so scared that my time with him is short that I want to keep him as contented as possible.

I am completely exhausted with it all :( Really hope your pup is feeling a little better today

xxx

A wee glimmer of my boy returning today :) He had a wee woof as I was preparing tea for everyone! He is still needing hand fed but his appetite is much improved today. He's been eating boiled turkey and water with ice cream the past few days and he did look a little disappointed at the return of his soaked kibble at tea time lol

I so hope this is the last "incident" we have for a loooooooooooooonggg time to come. Thank god I have been on holiday this past two weeks. Thankfully, I am soon to be getting a home working contract which means I will be around much more for the dogs!

xxxx

So pleased to hear that Jaff is starting to come round again. Re the fluids, I always find that using the concentrated water that you cook chicken etc in, added to some fresh water always is taken!
Keep up ther good work and keep us informed.
Big Hugs to you both.
Anndee

Colliecrew
Have just read this thread, and you and poor Jaff have really been through the mill. So pleased to hear he is coming round a bit. It can be such a rollercoaster, and each setback just hits you harder.

Keep persevering, and I sincerely hope that you and Jaff get past this. If you ever feel the need to read up on things to help with renal failure have a look at www.dogaware.com. It helped me get another good 8 months with my dog in end stage renal failure. Do keep us up to date.

All paws and fingers crossed for you here as well :)

CB - thank you so much for that website link - it's fantastic and has so much information for me to take in! Jaff was diagnosed with renal failure almost one year ago. He absolutely would not tolerate any of the specialised renal diets so, after speaking with John Burns of Burns Pet Food, I have him on a mix of their fish and rice and hypoallergenic mixer. I also started supplementing his diet with EPA oil and Apple Cider Vinegar. His levels have much improved which I am so thankful for. However, that website contains much more information and I will most certainly take a closer look at diet/supplement changes.

What a rollercoaster our dogs can take us on for sure! Still, the worry is a drop in the ocean in comparison to all the joy they have brought into my life :)

Today we passed another milestone - he managed to eat a little of his food from his bowl :))

Thanks once again to everyone xxx

The littlest triumphs can be SO rewarding :) Long may it continue.

How is Jaff doing now?