I have had a puppy enquiry , from someone in scotland. she rang but I was out. and sent a text message. I replied to the text and she asked for photos of the pups and parents which I sent. then she asked for more so I asked her to ring me which she did. She asked all the right questions and seemed to know about the breed and said she will come next week end to see the pups. a 250 mile drive. However she is now texting asking for more photos and asking for photos of my other dogs which are not even the same breed and asking how many I have. I don't want to turn down a good home but why would she need pics of my other dogs. Am I being over cautious?

You're right it does sound a little 'off' BUT could she be trying to ensure you are not a puppy farmer? 

Someone recently posted a list of differences between puppy farmers and responsible breeders.  I think a house full of different breeds might be one of the things she's been told to be wary of, as is atypical looking pedigree dogs.  Perhaps she's hoping that pictures could answer some questions and from her perspective it might seem like a good idea. 

On the flip side you'd hate to fall for a scam of some kind with thieves checking out what you've got at home.

Perhaps you could just ask her what she is worried about (and what she is hoping to learn from pictures) and try to find ways of re assuring her - after all she is planning a long drive and may want to be sure she isn't making a mistake.  However, presumably you won't be allowing her to drive away with a puppy on one meeting only so she can meet your other dogs when she comes next weekend, and still have time to make up her mind.  From your perspective remember you are vetting her to see if she is suitable, not the other way around! :)

i dont understand why she would want pic's of your other breed !! sounds strange to me !! if it was me id ask her why she wants them .

maybe she's just trying to make sure your not a puppy farm and seeing your other dogs within the home may reassure her. It might be a way to get a glimpse of your house in the background of the photos, again to assess you as its quite a distance to travel.

same as has been said before you are vetting her! ask her for photos of any dogs she has already!!

I would send her as many photos as she want and also use the flip side of this to find out as much as you can about her by asking for photos of dogs,house,garden etc.Could all work to your advantage and give you peace of mind.

I asked why and she said she just wants to see what Jack Russells look like? I did send her a couple. It just seems like I have spent all afternoon texting her and sending her pics. she says she hasn't any of her dog as he died. I don't know. Just got a nagging feeling that all is not right and i don't really know why.

I know we are not meant to name breeds on here but i think i can work out what your pups are by your post!Whenever i sell a litter i never commit to anybody without having met them in person first.If they won't travel to vet me and me to vet them,no puppy.I know it's a long way but i had a pup go to scotland(from cornwall) and insisted on a meeting first.I don't know how old your pups are but you could always wait and go with your instinct and place your pup with somebody else.Have you had a long chat on the phone with her,it's so hard to get a feeling about people by text and e mail.Maybe that would put your mind at rest.

I would ask for an address and land line number if I had any doubt.  Post the pictures and ring her up to see if they've arrived.  Then you have at least confirmed that where they are if not quite who they are. :)

I must be a youngish old fashioned person. I would never get into any conversation with a stranger via a mobile. I don't even reply to text message enquires.  

If the person is only 250 miles away that is 3-4 hours max I would be home checking if you are stuck for puppy buyers more locally.

She She has now sent me her address so I will send her my puppy questionaire and directions.
No landline number was forthcoming though.
Blue, yes I agree with you about the text messages but things seem to have escalated and I just keep getting more requests for pictures. She wants pics of mum, dad even though I have said he doesnt live here, grandparents , with puppies, without puppies other dogs, and now I have just had another request for pictures and she wants a picture of ME too!! i really can't see the relevance of that so haven't sent one, in fact have not replied to the last couple of texts.   I must have sent her about 30 texts today. I have never sent that many in a month before. She says she has no computer so I can't email her.

And after all this I have no real idea what she is like. The pups are only 2 weeks old so if she comes to see them next weekshe can't take one with her.

When you say directions i would no way send her directions to her house yet,not ntil you have managed to speak to her,and i certainly would not send a picture of yourself.At the end of the day you don't really know if 'she' is female after all.Be careful.

As far as I am concerned I will not entertain anyone without a landline. Unless I have other sure references.

I'm afraid I wouldn't either.  Call me old fashioned ......... ;)

I think that I'd suggest that she finds a puppy nearer - maybe you've been advised that it's a long way for a pup to travel ..... ;) ;) :)

Quite a lot of people these days dont have a landline, and it may just be that shes asking in a friendly way - I know when ive talked to breeders on the phone I have asked after their other dogs, its mostly just curiosity but it gives me a clearer idea of what sort of person the breeder is, which is important to me!

With the communications being done by text i would think the questions may come across a bit abrupt and 'ruder' than they actually are intended to be so I think I would give her the benefit of the doubt until you meet her.

After all, to vet people they are going to have to come to your house and any one of the people who phone enquiring about pups COULD be a theif, it is a risk you take and I dont particularly see why this one is more likely to be a theif than anyone else. Unless you are regularly leaving the house totally empty, which I cannot imagine you are doing with a litter of pups there, I dont see where the massive risk is.

dogmad1234, since you have her address have a look on the google map thing and see if it is a real address.  If she doesn't have any dogs at the moment you could ask her for her previous vets details and say you are wanting a reference from the vet.  the other option would be to enlist the help of any CD'er who lives close to her to do a homecheck on your behalf.

I don't know about not entertaining anyone without a landline but I would definitely want to speak rather than text with someone and would probably do a bit of digging prior to the visit.  A bit of online research never went amiss.  Even though she says she doesn't have a computer it may be worth checking for a bebo/facebook or myspace page.  I also would't send the address until you get the questionnaire back and see if it tally's with anything  you have found out.

Or if this all sounds like too much hassle tell her you are not willing to sell her a pup.

>As far as I am concerned I will not entertain anyone without a landline. Unless I have other sure references.

Ditto. I know many honest people who don't have landlines, but I also know many not-so-honest who don't. So unless a stranger has a landline (which means a fixed, traceable address) then I'm not going to trust them with one of my precious puppies.

She might just be really excited about getting a puppy, but it does sound a bit dodgy! If its a KY or PH postcode then I can possibly check out what its like if you PM me!

this person sounds like a nutta (sorry) but asking for your picture too ????....i ALLWAYS say go with your gut feeling ,and if things but sit right with you ,DONT let her have 1 of your pups .

Have known this sort of behaviour to come from Tax and benefits agencies to an individual I know in a giant breed. 

> Have known this sort of behaviour to come from Tax and benefits agencies to an individual I know in a giant breed.&nbsp; <IMG class=qButton title="Quote selected text" height=10 alt="Quote selected text" src="/images/mi_quote.gif" width=20>

Just what I was thinking.......

Thats the conclusion I am coming to. I think I am too worried about it all to let one of my puppies got to her. I would worry too much about him. I want to be completely happy with the homes they go to.

That is worrying. Do the tax people want tax on the money from the sale of the puppies? I never even considered that when breeding? This is my first and probably last litter, so I am not going to make a fortune on it. I will barely cover my expenses and if I have to pay tax on the money as well it is likely to show a loss.
And would the tax people keep asking for photos etc? really strange

Unless you are classed as a business then I don't think so; even if you were taxed on it, you would only pay tax on your profit after all expenses (stud, food, vet etc), so I wouldn't worry too much.

Yes, any income you receive is taxable, regardless of whether you are classes as a business or not, however, you would only pay tax on the profit after expenses so unlikely there would be one, especially if your first litter.  Don't forget, you have the cost of raising the bitch, do you show? because all those expenses can be deducted.

If I only need to pay tax on profit then I should be Ok as I doubt there will be much. I do show although not much this year.
when you say you have the cost of raising the bitch, is this from a puppy in which case as she is 4 then 4 years "running cost" for her will totally out weigh any profit I make

Of course to be able to offset costs you'd need to show receipts for the expenses, otherwise it's all classed as income and is taxable.

Our next door neighbours don't have a landline as they both have contract mobiles, so I wouldn't hold that against them.

They're not strangers to you, so you trust them. Most other people wouldn't know them from Adam, so the lack of a landline might well move them down the waiting list.

After receiving some information from another CD person via private message it does seem rather as if this person has done this before with other breeds and did not turn out to be a serious offer of a home, so I will not be taking this enquiry any further. thanks very much for all your thoughts. It was very helpful to have somewhere to turn with mu concerns.

Im glad you made that decision to not go ahead...it all sounded very odd.
That is one reason i could not breed myself as i am to worried who will be interested in my puppies....i would end up wanting to keep them all and that would be silly.
So i will leave that for the experience breeders as im sure they get to know who is genuine and who is not.

>Unless you are classed as a business then I don't think so; even if you were taxed on it, you would only pay tax on your profit after all expenses (stud, food, vet etc), so I wouldn't worry too much.

Yes, they will be interested in it, business or not. They are clamping down heavily on people making money from other sources while claiming benefits. It's just the same with people selling cars illegally at the roadside. People can easily make quick money from such selling a variety of things without having to declare it. This is one of the reasons you can only sell two cars in a year before being considered a trader.
If you breed, regardless of what it is... dogs, cats, even rabbits, you should keep detailed records, receipts and invoices that show your outgoings for each litter and the incomings and detail anything, even the smallest expenses. Otherwise it could end up costing you even more and not just on the income.
Think about it... most back yard breeders (different to puppy farmers) are on benefits, they are breeding from their pet bitches, cutting corners on care and expenses and it is all extra undeclared and untaxed income on the side while they are taking the tax payers money too.

I forgot to add at the bottom of my post, regardless of claiming benefits or not, earning any kind of extra income, it is considered taxable and this includes the breeding and selling of animals. This is why I have never understood the claim that breeding is a hobby.

> This is why I have never understood the claim that breeding is a hobby.

Because if done correctly there is no money to be made!!

>This is why I have never understood the claim that breeding is a hobby.

A hobby is something one does for enjoyment.

>> This is why I have never understood the claim that breeding is a hobby.

>Because if done correctly there is no money to be made!!

So as an example, if someone has a litter of say 8 german shepherd puppies and charges £500 per puppy, regardless of quality and sex, that would be a total of £4,000. Can you break that down for me from mating to homing, how this litter of 8 cost £4,000 plus to rear correctly? Then in the long term, breeding from that same bitch maybe 3 times maximum within her lifetime, say that's £12,000. Can you break that down for me also, so that I can understand a little better?

Thank you for your time.

>>This is why I have never understood the claim that breeding is a hobby.

>A hobby is something one does for enjoyment.

So are you saying that anyone who enjoys breeding can take it up as a hobby?

Sorry to the OP and any mods, maybe I am hijacking their threads with my innocent questions. Should I start a new one?

>So are you saying that anyone who enjoys breeding can take it up as a hobby?

rather that than someone who doesn't enjoy it taking it up! ;-) The more interested (in dogs, not money) the breeder, the better the pups are likely to be.

Some people can make their hobbies cover their costs - others can't.

>Can you break that down for me from mating to homing, how this litter of 8 cost £4,000 plus to rear correctly?

each puppy will have cost the same to rear, so each puppy should be sold for the same price. The most logical way to determine price is to divide the total cost of producing the litter by the number of pups, remembering that time is about the most expensive item - if the breeder doesn't look after the pups then he/she would have to pay someone else to do it.

Can't argue with that Jeangenie, but if time is the most expensive thing, then surely this is an income? If you are getting paid for your time. Also how do you determine an appropriate amount to cover your time? Also, if each puppy has cost the same to rear, would you still charge the same for the puppy who shows the most prospects re: showing over the puppy with the clear visible fault that will definately be only a 'pet' prospect.

Thanks.

> but if time is the most expensive thing, then surely this is an income?

Off set in alot of cases by loss of earnings from other employment due to taking extended leave to cover the litter

ive had people text me regarding stud and puppies.
ive replied but made it clear any other questions they need to ask to contact me via phone.
again with emails id rather speak to the person than emailing or texting back and forth.
id rather not sell her a puppy and wait for a much better home to come up.
good luck

This seems really familiar to me! I recently received a text from someone asking about puppies(i don't have any right now), said she'd gotten my mobile number from a friend. Asked for photos so i asked for an email address to send them to - doesn't have a computer or a landline. Sent a photo of one of my bitches, she asked for photos of ALL the dogs, which seemed off somehow. She was very persistent, texting to remind me while i was working nights!

She then started texting me several times a day, asking what time i finish work, am i having a good day, what am i doing on my days off etc. I was quite sharp with her and said i didn't believe she was genuine, that she seemed quite freaky, but instead of being insulted she started texting even more! Asked me how many kids i had, how old they were, who was looking after the dogs when i had a night out, even who babysat for my kids!!

I didn't reply to anymore texts, but she kept on for about a month. Definetly odd, i won't reply to text enquiries in future.

Karen

As far as the taxable income thing goes..

For each tax year you work out what the dogs cost.. (the ones you need to own to do your 'hobby breeding', not the ones that are purely pets that you dont show), so food, insurance, excesses on vet bills, any dog walker or pet sitter or kennelling fees, equipment costs (collars leads), show entry fees, fuel to shows, is there a specific dog vehicle if so then factor that in (the depreciation of its purchase price is involved but its confusing),, then if you have a litter, theres all the associated costs with that... if you want you can deduct the cost of your tea and biscuits given to prospective puppy buyers, you can certainly knock off some for heating, lighting, phone, internet, vet bills, extra puppy foods, time off work presuming you are unpaid for this time off.

If by the end of all that you HAVE a profit, and either it is above your personal allowance for that year or (for instance if you already work full time) your personal allowance is already 'gone' then you will have to pay tax on it.

Some people; might say you shouldnt include the day to day 'running' costs of keeping and showing dogs, but without these costs you wouldnt (hopefully!) be breeding dogs in the first place!

Just to put it into perspective, my dog food for the year alone comes to over £1.2k. I have five dogs and only two of them are 'big'. I spend about £800 a year on insurance (thats just for two dogs the other three arent insurable), and of course if i were to breed (i wont be doing though) none of the breeding/whelping veterinary costs are covered by the insurance so you could add up to £2.5k realistically if you needed an emergency out of hours visit, call out or say a C-section.. Add in the rest, the showing costs, all the gear you need...

Profit? what profit?

Beware!! they sound like puppy traders. Some use your photo's to sell there puppies. I have seen loads on the net. They are always miles away from you, so you can't check them. If you put "puppies with your breed" in to googles you can see loads of puppy adverts. Some say free to good home then £250.00 transport. To pay through moneygram, others puppies £180.00 send money through Great western, then they will transport the puppy. Big Con!!
I had a Lady phone me a couple of weeks ago for a puppy, after a long convo. She had just been scamed. Lost her money and NO pup.
If it sounds to good to be true it usally is!!!

Denese