Hi,

I am new to this and wonder if anyone could offer some assistance please? We are considering studding our Staff dog and I am trying to find out information on how to go about this in the right way. I'd like some advice on contracts and where I can get a draft of one, how much to charge and when to charge i.e charge for mating or only charge if bitch becomes pregnant.
Any advice would be gratefully appreacited and if anyone knows of a website about studding that would also be extremely helpful.

Thanks!

J.

if you knew how many staffies were given into rescue every week you wouldnt be asking that question,my advice is unless you have a stunning show winning dog with good health and temperament dont breed !!
Staffie's get in the wrong hands there was one at the kennels we use he had been used for fighting he had a lost eye and scars everywhere his side was ripped open as well.As far as I know the SBT Club Rescue have around 300 looking for homes on their books.
Sorry to be blunt :(

Thanks but when we were looking for our staff we wanted a pup, as you have mentioned the ones in rescue have unknown temperament and as I was pregnant as the time, I wanted a dog that we knew would be good around children. I also think that other people should have this opportunity so to stop breeding would surely be denying them this opportunity. I would not let my dog breed with just anyone. Our dog has a lovely temperament and is 5 generation pedigree from champion bloodline.

I didnt say the staffs at the kennels had iffy temperaments what I am saying is maybe your dog is well loved and has a home for life but how many pups have a permanent life/home ? not as many as you may think,these rescue dogs were pups one day a cute little pup thats been outgrown or discarded by his owner.Also if you start mating him his temperament will definitley change !
I would advice anyone thinking of breeding or "studding" as you put it to think again,Staffies are being put down everyday in rescue pounds because they are unrehomable ie: not cute anymore and I say again they were all cute puppies at one time.

Hi Jill 22, perhaps you would be kind enough to tell us why you think your dog should be used at stud, temperament excepted as that should be taken as read. We are always being accused of being over hard on people who post in the way you have, so perhaps you can put us straight by telling us why you think it would be a good idea to use your dog at stud. Thanks.
Ja:)kie

<< is 5 generation pedigree from champion bloodline>>

I have some 30 generation pedigirees with champion bloodlines but this does not mean that every dog is good enough to be bred from

I agree.
Even if the dog were out of a Ch dam by a Ch stud it would not necessarily guarantee the dog itself was suitable for breeding or showing.
Nicky

As I previously stated, we wanted a Staff puppy NOT a dog as I was pregnant at the time and I wanted to raise the pup myself. I did not feel happy with a dog as who knows how it has been treated and what the dogs temperament is. Would you rescue a dog if you had a baby? I wouldn't. My child comes first before anything. I was raised with a pup - a lab - and loved her immensely as she did me, I wanted the same for my child. Our dog is absolutely lovely natured and he is gorgeous, so many people tell us that. The vet says he is a lovely staff so this is another reason for us wanting to stud him. We would not stud him with just anyone and I would request that the pups go to families only - again this is the kind of thing I wanted advice on - would I have any input in where the pups went?

If you read my post, I also said I wanted advice - I didn't say we were 100% going to do this. I am fully aware of the number of unwanted dogs there are, not just staffs. We have a rescue cat from battersea so I have seen the dogs in there as well.

I am not an expert and people replying with things like 'I have some 30 generation pedigirees with champion bloodlines but this does not mean that every dog is good enough to be bred from' is not helpful. Its just making a dig. Please can this person then advise what makes a dog good enough to be bred from, that would be more helpful to me.

Please don't all have a go again, I just want some help.

Thank you.

In which case I would suggest that you should go back to the breeder of your dog and ask for another puppy.
Ja:)kie

Jill
No one is getting at you for buying a puppy and raising it well instead of taking on a rescue, but they are trying to point out the numbers of dogs in rescue, which despite your best intentions *some* of your dogs pup's *could* add to. :(
There are lots of established Staffie breeders out there already producing good quality stock for both pet & show homes, all the other posters were trying to ask is why you feel the need to offer your dog at stud?
If you are genuinely looking for advice then go back to his breeder and talk it through, start showing him and IF he starts winning you MAY get people approach you with regard stud use. If you don't show what is your alternative? You may advertise his services in a paper which would bring replies from any Tom, Dick or Harry who happens to have a Staffie bitch in your area who fancies having a litter regardless of the compatability of lines etc.
Just think it through. It really isn't a matter of just finding a bitch for him to mate. :(
Nicky

Thanks Nicky, your advice has been helpful. My reason for writing was to get more info, I didn't want to just place an ad in my local paper and that be that. I think we will look into showing him - if that's the right way to go about it? Even if he isn't good enough we love him anyway and we won't breed with him. I've contacted the KC and they've just e-mailed me some info which I'll read.

Welcome to the forum Jill :-)
If you type 'stud dog' into the search facility in the top right hand corner of the forum page, you will fine many past threads on the subject of stud dogs. I am sure you will find lots of useful points there :-)

Hi Jill
One thing to think about (among others), is that useing a dog for stud often changes there personality, they are always looking for bitches. and can become very restless. Not all studs but a fair few.
One person I no had to have his dog castrated after useing him as he went from a lovley family pet to being a monster in the house,senting everywhere, and always barking to get out.Just somthing else to think on.

hi jill
please do not take offence, we are very protective of our chosen breeds,most that are on the board are very helpfull and experienced and want to see unnessasary breeding stoped or for novices to think very seriously, one poster has mentioned the once lovely family pet then changed once he had a bitch, cocking his leg at everything including your nice furniture etc, the stud dog owner also takes on the responsability for the pups that he produces so if the bitch owner for some reason could not take back or rehome the pups they bred it would fall to you thats if you have a consience and want to be seen as a caring and responsible owner/breeder, if not you become one of the many back street breeders with little thought to what you have produced, i think people think because they have a nice looking dog or bitch then it is good enough to breed from, very wrong, do you know the breed standard for staffies, again the person who bred your dog would or should of told you wether it has showing potential. if not love him for the family pet that he is. regards tina

I tried to contact the breeder last night and they seem to have changed their number. I tried directory enquiries and they are ex directory. Can anyone please tell me who else might be able to give me advice since I cannot get hold of the breeder? Would a vet be able to tell us if our dog is of show standard? Regarding the question of looking after the pups, this would not be a problem as I am a housewife. We cannot breed - which my husband and I would love to do - as our house is not big enough, but if we had to take the pups in then we would. Eventually our plans are to breed dogs, but not for years, at least not until we have a house big enough and have research into it properly. I hope this give more of a background on us and you realise that we are not heartless people and are dog lovers.

Thanks

Vets unless they are exhibitors of your breed are NO EXPERT IN THE QUALITY of a dog.

their expertise is animal disease, and treatment thereof.

In fact some are remarkeably ignorant about healthy dogs.

You could write to the breeder, as you should have paperwork with their deatils. You may also like to contact the owner of the sire.

Try a Google search on the sires name, and you may find show results, which will give the owners name.

Alternatively get to some shows, and talk to the owners of winning exhibits. the ones coming out of the ring at a Champ show with a red prize card, witll at least have a decent dog themselves, and may be an experienced owner exhibitor.

Why not pop up to Birmingham on Friday 13th (Terriers, Hounds and Gundogs) or 14th (Working, Pastoral, Utility and Toy Groups) December.

It is the Ladies Kennel Association show at the NEC Birmingham International (Airport and Train station). It is the last, and probably one of the best shows of the year! Most of the active exhibitors will like to enter.

You won't be allowed to take your dog though, but can arrange to enter a local show, or have your breeder, the stud owner come and see him.

Jill,

What champions does your dog have in his lines? Who are the dam and sire? Where do you live? - you can go along to a bull breed ring craft class and they would be able to tell you if he fits the standard... or join your local breed club... Most staff breeders would be pleased to help you if they were aware that you are trying to do things right...

What is your dogs age? Height? wEIGHT? and type? also helps to se if he falls within the easy points of the standard..
what are his ears like, teeth, front, movement...

Hi Jill , i dont think they are telling you that you should have bought a rescue , more that if you contribute to breeding more~who knows where they will end up as so many people breed sbt's right now.If even the very very best from perfect parents still end up in shelters or ripped to shreds then think carefully about the atributes of your dog before doing this.
Thats what i think they mean.
I too with young children wouldnt necesarily go for a rescue dog..but then i wouldnt mate my bitch if the statistics for my breed where like yours.
Zoe

Doesn't your dog have endorsements on his pedigree papers? Usually they do. This allows the original breeder the right to decide if your dog has the potential to add benefits to already exsisting lines. If you contact your breeder, they will help you assess if your dog would be a good stud, they'll remove any endorsement and will probably help you decide who,if anyone, you should breed with. I definitely say contact your original breeder.
Julie :)

tell me who your breeder is??? email me at home if you like!!! as a breeder myself im horrified when someone with a pet dog decides theyre going to do the world a favour and [STUD] theyre dog, you wont know anything about whats in his genetic makeup, what lines youd not want to use him on etc, he i assume was bought as a pet, im afraid its normally back street breeders who just use any male, -unproven or otherwise, youve had good sound advice, buy a puppy in if you need another , most breeders of good stock use the show ring as a guide to what male is siring what, and this is taken into consideration when a carefully planned litter is on thier mind, youve no idea howmost of us plan, watch and listen hoping to improve on our stock , so would you expect a serious breeder to even think about using your dog-if notthen which breeder would you think youd be attracting :(

Hello Jill
You have been given some very good forthright advice.You say you want to breed in the future when you have more room.What I can`t understand is why you want to put your pet Staffie out to stud.What enjoyment will you get out of that!
Having a stud dog is not to be taken lightly.Would you be prepared to be a responsible stud dog owner and take in and rehome your dogs offspring if need be.What would you do if it changed his temperament.Its true dogs do vary and they do not always become manic and escapologists wanting to go in search of a bitch.
I`m sorry to say it but when someones involvement and experience in dogs is nil and the first thing they want to get started with is stud work it just makes me think they are just thinking about how much money the dog can earn for them.
Enjoy him as a pet and show him if he is good enough
(you`ll soon find out after entering him in a few shows
whether he is as good as his contempories) and use him to get to know the breed then when you are able to breed you will have hopefully gained enough knowledge to do it properly and responsibly.
Sorry to be blunt but you did ask.
Regards Carole

carol. --jills written on idle chat that she wont beusing her male :D

THank you Dizzy
I haven`t been on here for a day or two and was just
working my way through the new posts(to me)and hadn`t got to idle chat.
Better not contribute to anything else before I`ve read everything.Still glad to hear Jill has had second thoughts.
Regards Carole

Here's a copy of my message I posted on idle chat just in case some of you haven't seen it.

Thanks

Jill
I Just wanted to thank you for all the information you gave regarding studding my dog. We have decided not to go ahead with it and we will be getting him neutered. I can now see why some of you replied so stongly to my message and I agree that it is irresponsible just to breed without having a dog good enought to breed from. I'd love to show Saxon but after closer inspection I don't think his teeth are exactly correct so we'll stick to keeping him as our pet only! One positive thing is that we have found a local training class so every Thursday I will be taking him along and I'm looking forward to it.

Thanks again, and I'll probably continue posting under the 'general' board.
Also just wanted to say sorry, I feel really irresponsible for even considering doing this but we genuinely didn't realise the implications. I'm very glad I asked for advice and beleive we have made the righ decision.

Jill

I hope you enjoy the training, you may well get the bug, and decide to enter some Obedience classes at next summers exemption shows.

you will be able to enter all the fun classes, and the breed ones if you like, where him being castrated will not hold him back as much as at the Open and Champ shows.

Staffies are smart little dogs, and you may find he takes you into a whole new hobby!

Best of Luck

If you decide that showing is your thing, then I would advise attending shows, and eventually once you know what you are looking at, getting a nice little bitch to show.

hi jill,
have not been on the boards for a few days and have just read your message,how refreshing to have some one come back with a response and thank you's for hopefully giving you sound info, this is what this is all about, some of us can and have been sharp and blunt, but this is only to protect the breeds and to protect novices makeing sometimes very upsetting and disstressing mistakes, for those that have a genuine love for there animals they will stay and come back to the boards, good to know you have thought about all the advice given. regards tina

Listen, If your dog was really of such good quality to warrant becoming a stud-dog, then his breeder would almost certainly have kept him themselves, or else made sure that he went to live with another breeder / exhibitor. They would not have sold him to a pet home.

And I totally agree with Dizzy. Far too many people think that just because their friends, the local shop keeper, people at the park, vets etc tell them that they have a 'handsome' or 'nice looking' male dog, that he will automatically be a widely-used and successful sire if they put him out to public stud.

The only reason any dog or bitch should ever be bred from, is to further and improve that particular animals breed as a whole.
I mean, appearance and pedigree aside for the moment, is your dog specifically health-tested for the genetic conditions that cause problems within your breed?
You need to join your local breed club, read and research your breed's BREED STANDARD until you know it off by heart, and speak to and show your dog to as many experienced breeders as you possibly can.

Unless your dog is of outstanding quality, or a proven sire that has fathered show winners and/or champions, then believe me, no sensible breeder would ever use him.
We really aren't trying to be funny or argumentative - we're telling you how it is.

OK, well I'm in Australia, and I'll tell you the info that you're looking for, seeing as though no one else will:) This is the contract that we used when we got our Labrador mated to a male Labrador.

1. If the mating between the male dog and the female bitch takes, dog’s owner has a choice between the pick of the litter, OR $$$.

2. There will be Two (2) service’s within 72 hours to ensure that the mating takes.

3. The male dog’s owner will NOT have to pay anything to do with the bitch and her litter. The Bitch’s owner is responsible for the following
(a) Bitch’s Food
(b) Bitch’s Worming
(c) Bitch’s Vet bill (includes any whelping problems and caesarians if required)
(d) Puppies Food
(e) Puppies Worming
(f) Puppies Vet Bills
(g) Puppies Microchips
(h) Advertising Puppies For Sale
(I) Organization of Puppies Transport to new homes (if required)
(m) Puppies Registration

4. If a miss-mating occurs, and there are no puppies born, there will be no fee due for the male dog’s owner.

5. If any puppies are born dead or alive, this constitutes a litter, and will result in the service fee being paid to the dog’s owner, if no puppies survive the 8 weeks.

Bred on the _____ day of _________________, ________ to the above named bitch.

Litter due to be whelped about the _____ day of _________________, ________.

Pick of subsequent litter born from this mating in exchange for stud fee.

Stud ___________ Owner ____________________ Signed___________________

Date_____________________

Bitch ___________ Owner____________________ Signed___________________

Date_____________________

This is to basically cover everyone's arses in case something goes wrong, and we decided not to pay the male dog's owner, or give them a puppy, then they have something which I've signed, so they could take me to court to try to retreive the moneys owed - but I'm not like that so it's a "Just in case" thing. Hope I helped

Chocolate Carter - you must have missed Jill's reply in the messages on this thread.

<I Just wanted to thank you for all the information you gave regarding studding my dog. We have decided not to go ahead with it and we will be getting him neutered. I can now see why some of you replied so stongly to my message and I agree that it is irresponsible just to breed without having a dog good enought to breed from. I'd love to show Saxon but after closer inspection I don't think his teeth are exactly correct so we'll stick to keeping him as our pet only! One positive thing is that we have found a local training class so every Thursday I will be taking him along and I'm looking forward to it.

Thanks again, and I'll probably continue posting under the 'general' board.
Also just wanted to say sorry, I feel really irresponsible for even considering doing this but we genuinely didn't realise the implications. I'm very glad I asked for advice and beleive we have made the righ decision.

Jill>

For all the right reasons she is not pursuing the issue. As you can see - she did get the information she was looking for.

Also Jill - don't listen to all these people telling you not to breed. Put your dog up for stud - it's the bitch's owner's who are choosing which dogs they want to use to breed with - not the people on this board. You might get 10 people wanting to use your dog over theirs...but you might also get none. It's your choice what you do with your dog - not anyone else. Go with your heart.

she has gone with her heart choc-carter and if you read all the thread you will see she decided not to put him to stud :)

CC

I must say that's a very irresponsible attitude and not one we try to engender on this board. Both parties in breeding need to be responsible for what is happening - otherwise you get two inexperienced people leading to a recipe for disaster.

Going with your heart is the last thing you should do when breeding dogs. Use your brain - it's less fickle.

Looks like yet another one appears out of the woodwork to try and stir up trouble. :rolleyes:

If I'm wrong then I apologise but it looks like you either haven't understood or read the original poster's posts and/or have unresponsible breeding attitudes.
I won't bore you with going into all the reasons seen from your few posts that make this glaringly obvious. IMHO I've got more important things going on in my life.
Dot

I'm begining to dread weekends and school holidays.
Ja:)kie

Chocolatecarter,

I am DEFINITELY not studding my dog. You should read the whole post, I did get the info I want and I believe it would be irresponsible to breed with him. I want to do the best for my dog and his breed and would hate to think I was adding to a problem of unwanted and uncared for dogs that anyone can get their hands on. Dogs are generally bought as pets, not as money-makers :(

Hi Jill, chocolate is a troll (someone who comes to forums to make trouble). Great to find even one person who listens to the good advice you've been given :). Many people, maybe most, start with a dog they shouldn't breed from so enjoy your dog now and think to the future. Hope you stay around and keep posting :).

SORRY!
Just re-read the posts (naughty me for not ready all the way down before!... thus ignore my previous message).
I'm so pleased with the conclusion you've reached Jill. Well done!

It shows that you've done your research now, and have made a sensible decission from what you've seen and heard. If he's a great pet, then let him stay just that. After all, thats what you bought him for, right?
Enjoy him for what he is. :)