Has anyone read this book by Shirlee Kalstone? If so, does it really work? I have just finished reading it. Trying to get prepared for our pup. Shirl :-)

I've had Labradors clean in a couple of weeks and others where i was still struggling at nearly six months so I cannot see how it's possible to guarantee just how long it's likely to take. I must admit I’ve not read that book though. If you try it and it works, let us know as I for one would love to find a way! ;)

Regards, John

Hi John. I think I'm going to give it a try. It's a very strict schedule for 7 days, but it sounds like it may work. I guess I won't know until I try. I'll let you know how it works out in a few weeks. I get my pup in a couple of weeks. Shirl :-)

Hi Shirl,
I'm just reading this book too, as we get our lab pup in 5 weeks (not that I'm counting!!) The thing that bothered me was she says that as young puppies (under 14 weeks) do not have complete muscle control, you can't expect it to work too well before then. But she also says that if you want to house train completly, then using paper can cause confusion. So now I'm confused!!! What do I do for the 5 weeks between getting her and her reaching 14 weeks? I guess I'll be here with her most of the time, so would taking her out every hour plus all the usual times work? Or should I use paper too but not make a fuss of her when she uses it?
Anyone else??
Nic :)

I get a new pup in two weeks and am *dreading* the housebreaking bit!

I have never used paper training. It only extends the process. First you train the dog to use paper, in the house. And then you have to train the dog not to do its business in the house. The paper is really incidental to "paper-training", what you are really training the dog to do is to relieve themselves in one particular area of the house.

What works the best is taking the puppy out very frequently at the required times. After waking. After meals. After playing. Pups sleep a lot. They eat often. They play a lot. Hence, this is a real pain for a short period of time. Crate them when you cannot watch them. In contrast to paper training, this way you never give them the message that it is okay to relieve themselves in the house.

Either method the puppy needs to have a degree of control over eliminating before it works. This will vary with the breed and the puppy.

Hi Nic, I use paper and regular trips outdoors, especially on waking and after feeding. Some people are dead set against paper, but I've not had problems with it. Haven't read the book but like John I've had pups that were clean very quickly and others that took a long time to get the hang of things.

Hi Nic! I've heard from a friend of mine since I posted this message. She said she read the book and it worked well for her. She said there were accidents in the crate though, which is to be expected. She says that using the paper confuses the puppy and it takes longer to housebreak them. (just like the book) She said she stayed up until midnight every night for the first seven nights to take the pup out, then up at 6 to take the pup out. I guess I'll be outside more than inside for awhile! :-) I'm not working right now, so I'll be able to dedicate my time to my pup. My house will suffer, but OH WELL!!! It's just like a baby, they are only puppies for a short length of time. I want to enjoy it. I guess you'll have to make your own decision on what you do. I'm going to give it a try as soon as we bring her home. I read on one of the post here, that as soon as their paws hit the floor, take them out. Good advise I'm sure. Good Luck!! :-) Shirl

Hi Shirl, you may well be successful but you may well not. I would advise against setting yourself and your new puppy time targets, as that way lies frustration and disapointment in your new baby. They all get there in the end but you can't expect a puppy to be clean until it is able to control it's bowel and bladder. It is usualy the bowel that comes under control first followed some time later by the bladder. Much the same as human children and as with them they can't be expected to ask for the potty if they don't know they want to go. It is of course possible to train yourself and that will cut the number of accidents, but don't drive yourself mad now is the time to enjoy your pup they grow soon enough.
Ja:)kie

Jackie. I have thought the same thing about being successful with this idea of 7 days. I really appreciate your response. It sure does help to get others opinions when your new to all of this. The last pup I had was 23 years ago!! We had cats after that. I didn't do well at all housebreaking 23 years ago, so I wanted to learn as much as I could this time. Hopefully I'll do better at it this time. I'm older and wiser, that's for sure!! :-) Shirl

Hi Shirl,
Having read all this, I think I will forgo the paper, take her out every hour and after playing, eating, sleeping etc. I too will proberly wait up till 11 or so to take her out, and my husband is up at 5.30 each morning (EEK!!) so she will go out then, but what about during the night? She's going to be crated, so should I get up a couple of times to take her out, or will she be okay? I don't want her to have to sleep in it if she has to go, and I was going to partition off the crate, so she just has the room she needs.Help!!!!
Nic :)

Hi Nic,
What I plan on doing is putting her crate in our bedroom at night. If she wakes up whinning, I'm going to get up and take her out. Maybe someone with more experience will respond to help us out. Shirl :-)

That's a good plan, I wander if the noise of the dog would wake up my 16 month old down the hall!! It would'nt encourage the pup to whine just for attention would it? Hmm, I'm sure somebody must be able to help us!!
Nic :)

Are you planning on having her in your bedroom for the rest of her life, if not I would start as you mean to go on and put her in the kitchen. You are not going to sleep if you are cocking an ear to hear if she wakes up, it's JMO but I would rather mop up in the morning than be up and down all night. But it's not really experience it what suits you and what you are prepared to do, remember dogs are creatures of habbit and it is best not to start something you may wish to change at a later date.
Ja:)kie

Hi Jackie,
I had thought that too, a bit like children, once you do something once, they tend to remember forever!!
So if I leave her downstairs from 11 till 5.30, will she be okay in the crate, and is it fair to let her soil her sleeping area, or will she soon learn to hold on until morning? I'd rather not be up at night, and as you say, I don't want to lay down routines that are not what I intend for the longterm!
Nic :)

She wont hold on till morning until she is physicaly able to do so, but she will be used to sleeping not just in her own mess but also that of her litter mates. Sounds nasty I know but she wont mind. I'll tell you what I do if you like but it does not involve any training as such and I've never had a puppy dirty after about 12 weeks give or take the odd accident but I do think I am lucky in my breed who seem to prefer to be clean. Let me know if you want a blow by blow account.
Ja:)kie

Hi Jackie,
Yes please!! That would be really helpful.
Nic :)

Have e-mails you

Hi Jackie.
thanks for the email, it's really helpful advise. Just one thing, do you keep the pen with the paper etc just until she has control and can go through the night? Then transfer into the regular crate without paper?
Thanks again,
Nic :)

Yes I usualy have them out of the pen at about 10 weeks but puppies do differ and so does the domestic situation so some times it is left up for longer than others. It is not just to avoid pee and poo where it is difficult to clean up but keeps the puppy safe whilst my mind is on other things. You could do the same sort of thing with a large cage that would have enough room for a bed and paper, I prefer a pen as it gives the puppy room to play as well.
Jackie

OOOOOOOH Hadn't thought of that. :-) Shirl

Shirl,
That's what I did with my last 2 pups and both were clean at night really quickly
Anne

Anne, Did you put your pup in your bedroom or did you stay on the sofa as well? Shirl

Shirl,
One was down stairs with a baby alarm so I could hear him, but Cava was in my room from start, still sleeps either in my room or on landing outside
Anne

Hi Shirl - I had my boxer house trained in under 2 weeks. I spent the first 2 weeks sleeping on the sofa next to the crate. I got up every time he woke. I never used paper. As soon as he woke I took him out, also after he ate. I watched him like a hawk all the time and you just get to know their body language and know when to put them out. I always stood outside with him so that I could praise him when he did the deed. He only ever had 3 accidents in the house. I am at home all day though so it was easy to devote my time to him, I appreciate not everyone can do this with work etc.
Hope this helps - Joanne

Hi Joanne! I don't have a job right now, so I will be able to devote my time to her. Did your boxer wake up alot at night when it was a pup? I did read it was very important to stay with them outside and praise them when they went. Phew, so much to learn. I hope I'll do okay.. Thanks for your help. :-) Shirl

I never used paper with Kassie- not one to say it's wrong though- I've never experienced it:) I got Kassie at 8 weeks old and had her fully house trained by 11 weeks:) After a few days of her being here I began to recognise the *rain dance* and scooped her up and took her outside- just on the edge of the lawn- when she went praised her- I didn't do anything though when she went in the house- never told her off- I just didn't clean up after her in full view of her- I'm sure I was told somewhere along the lines- that since they see you as their new Mum- it's their Mum who used to clean up after them so they begin to expect you to clean up after them rather than going outside themselves:) Basically I had her peeing all over for a few weeks then she was dry day and night. The only thing I wish I'd done different is- I wish I put her on the paving slabs in the first place because now she only *goes* where I used to put her as a very young puppy- on the edge of the lawn- which being a bitch has completely wrecked my lawn:) Like the others have said after a while they don't like to sleep in mess anyway- I'm lucky that I never had to crate kassie she sleeps in the utility room leading off the bathroom- but she's never *went* in the utility room- she used to go in the bathroom until we locked the outside of the door- then she was clean at night:) Hope this helps someone- I've not been through much with Kassie since she's still young but I have been through this stage:) Again as others have said- I think she was/is quite a clean dog anyway:) And like you say Shirl- stay outside with her until she goes:)

Stacey x x x

Hi Shirl - He went out last thing at about 11 then woke at 3am then that was it until 7.30. But by 9-10 weeks old he stopped the 3am one. It was like having a new born baby really. Because I was next to the crate, as soon as he moved I picked him up and went out. My husband thought I was nuts getting up at 3am but I think it was worth it to have him trained so quickly. Luckily I used to be able to get straight back to sleep so had no ill effects from getting up, did look a bit like the walking dead at 3am in the garden though lol.
Joanne

Shirl, I read your messages regarding the housbreaking of your puppy they are dated 11/02...I'm getting a 9
week cockapoo on Sunday 6 8 03 I was wondering how your puppy made out nd I would love to have your
input....Please

I take it you were home during the day..well I work full time..Molly will be crated from 8 to 12:00 ( when my
husband comes home for lunch) then 1: to 3:30 when my son comes home from work....canthis be done? It was
14 years since I last trained a dog...I have to put my JRT down in January...I swore No More Dogs...but I find
I'm empty without them! go figure! I never crated before either...I need any help anyone is willing to give me.

Thanks
jsolemene

Jsolemene, I posted on your other post. I hope you don't take any offense to it, but it is very difficult to housetrain a pup if your not there. Yes, I was home all day, still am, and it was a difficult task. I read this book and ended up trashing it and the idea that a pup can be housetrained in 7 days. Others may disagree with me I'm sure. I'm not an expert, by no means. I had a very difficult time housetraining my yorkie. You have to be quick and very observent. You have to learn what signs it gives you when it has to "go". It took me 3 months to housetrain her. It got very frustrating at times. I posted my frustrations on CD and they kept telling me not to worry it would suddenly "click" with her and she would know to go outside to do her business. And they were right. All of a sudden, she stopped having accidents in the house and would go to the door to be let out. I'm sorry to you and to all the others who have puppies that work full time, but IMHO I just think its so sad that they have to stay at home most of the day crated. They need companionship, love and attention. They are just babies. This is why I waited so long before getting my Yorkie. I wanted to be home with her everyday, so I decided it was best to wait until I was no longer working. I know I'll probably getting screamed at by someone on here, but it's just my opinion. I wish you the best of luck, but please don't think he will be housetrained any quicker in a crate if noone is there to let it out of the crate every 1/2 to 1 hour to go. Shirl :D

Hi!
I'm new to the puppy stages of raising a dog too, but what I've been doing with my 7 week old regarding housebreaking seems to be slowly working. This is what I do:
I do have an area (in the kitchen, to serve as a play pen) which is papered, but I do not teach my pup to go on this. It's simply a precaution as he will inevitably do his business here when he's left alone for little periods at a time. If I see him about to go in the house, I say no or shake a jar with some coins in it to startle him & stop him. I then pick him up & place him in on the grass in the garden & wait for him to go there (takes a little while at first, as he then gets interested in exploring!). If he manages to go in the house before I can catch him, I just ignore it, clean up with an odour eating pet cleaner, and make sure I keep an eye on him more vigilantly. If he starts going off exploring away from you (ie: down the hall) that's a big tip that he's looking for somewhere to go potty! So follow him, & interrupt him! Also, I make sure I take my pup out immediately after he's eaten (surprising how quickly they poo after eating!), after he wakes up, after he's been playing or excited for some time, and after he's drank a lot of water. This never fails & really helps with the housebreaking, I find.

During the night he is crated by my bed, and whines when he needs to go out. This (for poor old me) is about every 2 hours. Although, he's now been sleeping for longer periods without needng to go- in only a few days! I also make sure that he's been to the toilet before I put him to bed. Sometimes it IS hard to tell the difference between the whine that says "Let me out I need to go pee!" and "Let me out, it's a bit scary/lonely in here"! My general rule is that if it's been less than 2 hours, he's probably just lonely, so I'll let him whine for a while & see if he settles back in. If not, then I'll just take him out in case.
My little lad has only pooed in the house once, and pees only once in a while (when i can't catch him in time). Everything else he does quite happily outside. He also already knows where to go back inside (2 steps which he's to little to jump up yet, but he puts his front paws on the 1st one when he's done [$ wants to go back in)- which is great as it saves me freezing out there waiting 4 him to poo as well, when he only needed to pee. ])

I think housebreaking in 7 days is a bit much- unless you adopt a slightly older dog, who catches on quickly. But don't worry- doggie poos & pees clean up well, even out of carpet (which my place is covered in! Who knows why the english are so obsessed with carpeting everything!). Just make sure you praise your pup profusely as soon as he starts going outside, & he'll catch on quick. Paper training to me is a waste of time, delays the process, and causes confusion for a poor little one who has so much else to learn & get used to!

Good Luck!!

Emma =)

All of yall's information has been so helpful. So.... we'll see how it goes when I bring her home. Thanks so much! Shirl

Hi Shirl,
I'll second that!!:)
Let me know how you get on, as you're getting your pup a couple of weeks before me so I'll be intrested to hear what works for you. G:);)D Luck!!
Nic :)

No problem Nic. I'll be glad to let you know how things are going. Thanks! Shirl :-)

hi nick and shirl
i will be getting bradley 7 week old boxer on 14/6/03. i have only been responsible for one dog and that was sam a border collie. i have to say he was a golden boy. Easily trained in all areas maybe two accidents at night. But i have a feeling i will be in for a shock with bradley.
he won't be left that much as my partner runs a restaurant so he is home most of the day. and when i arrive home my partner leaves. (he never gets home before 1am). so in all i think the pup will be left at night for about 5 1/2hrs so there is a fair chance we could knock the toilet training on the head relatively fast, depending on the pup of course.
horses for course and all that. im sure me and the pup will grow to know each other
em

Hi Shirl
I read with interest the questions & answers, I am due to get my Bichon pup on 20 jun, I have read so much stuff on toilet training I dont know if I am coming or going. I also work full time, I will come home every lunch time for a play. I am also considering a dog flap, the part of the side garden will be safe, I intend to try the idea out once Molly is a bit older it may not work but I will give it a try. What was the name of the book you suggested? also I read you received an email of a member about training was it helpful? are there any tips from it you can pass on? What type of dog are you getting? are you like me counting the days, we visited on saturday & took pictures, I cant stop showing them around at work, they think I am mad (probably am but shes so lovely). Keep in touch & let me know how you are getting on. Good luck, not long to go.
Regards Pauline

Pauline sorry I just now saw your post. That email from Jackie was to n allenandsmith, not me. :D I posted this question back in November 2002. I got my Yorkie in Dec. 2002. After getting her home, it was a whole lot harder to housetrain than I thought it would be. Plus she hated her crate. That didn't help. So I ended up keeping her in the kitchen all the time, unless I was in the living room for a long length of time, I would bring her in with me. But.... I had to watch her like a hawk. She had many accidents, even with me watching her all the time. I kept her in the kitchen at night as well. She was dry and clean at night a lot quicker than she was during the day. I spent a lot of time in the kitchen!! Good thing its quit large! My tip would be perserverence. (sp) Think of her as a baby in diapers, except no diaper, so the mess is on the floor. I can't give you any tips as far as housetraining when you work full time. I was home all day with my yorkie. I guess the dog flap would be your best bet. Good luck. Shirl

Is that possible? House breaking in 7 days? I'll be getting Molly on Sunday.. she'll be 9 weeks old...I plan to
crate her ... but I work full time...She'll be crated from 8 am to 12:00 noon, when my husband comes home for
lunch..then from 1 to 3:30 when my son comes home....am I going to be banging my head against a wall? I know
that I must expect accidents...but while she's in the crate what's in there with her? just paper? or do I put a
carpet of some kind that can be washed...I realize I must be diligent in taking her out after she plays, eats, sleeps,
and during the middle of the night...but will I be confusing her for the time she is in the crate during the day when
I'm not home?

Please help!!!!

Jsolelmene

Hi! In answer to your question is it possible to housetrain a pup in 7 days, I would say no!! It depends on the breed and the individual dog and I honestly don't think it's wise to set yourself a time limit or you'll get terribly disappointed. At least I did!
I think the crate training works best if you're around to supervise unfortunately. I could well be wrong - I'm certainly no expert.
You might find it a problem keeping your new pup in a crate for 4 hours I think you said it was. It's a long time for a baby to be confined and he's bound to have to spend a penny in that time.
I tried crate training my Shih Tzu puppy last year after someone told me about that. It's brilliant if you're consistent (I'm not!) and one thing to hang onto - they ALL get there in the end!! So don't be like me and despair. My puppy was 4 months old when we got him and had lived in a kennel all his life, so he thought it was wrong to go outside and pee and inside the house was right! It was hell for the 1st few weeks but he's brilliant now.
I got him gradually used to going in his crate first, then put him in for 1/2 an hour at a time and wouldn't let him out till he stopped complaining. He got to use his crate as a refuge and play pen! I'd then make 2 hour intervals where he'd go in the crate - I'd let him out in the garden. If he peed he was allowed freedom for an hour, if not - back in the crate! It feels terribly harsh and cruel but it does work - if you're there to constantly keep watch.
Eventually what really cracked it was taking him out 3 or more times a day as he doesn't like going in the garden. The walks really fixed it in his head that going out was the right place to go to the toilet so if you're not going to be in the house all morning, maybe a method other than crate training would work.
I haven't read this book so perhaps there's a different way of crating for people who work all day. The main advantage of crating is it's the only way you can contain them and keep the house pee and poo free!
Anyway, I wish you luck - don't despair or give up - it's really only a few weeks of trouble and then you're winning! And some dogs are terribly quick to learn!
All the best
Alison

Hi Nic
Been reading all the tips/ideas for toilet training, where do you start? We get our Bichon pup on 20 june, I am counting the days, went to see her on saturday & took some pictures, they are nearly worn out with showing them around. I am trying to gather as much info in relation to toilet training but I am sure things will slot into place once pup arrives, well at least I hope so. Its so exciting isnt it. Keep in touch & let me know how your getting on. When do youget your pup? what is it? looks like Shirl, you & me will have a lot in common....
Regards Pauline

I was introduced to this book many years ago by a Boxer breeder who used to give a copy of it to all her puppy buyers. I have used it myself and recommended it to many of my puppy purchasers. Yes it does work because it make you aware that a puppy does not have full bladder control until 16 weeks of age. This book helps set out a routine so mistakes don't happen so the puppy can be praised for good behaviour and ignore bad behavior. Many new owners don't know where to start training puppy. The schedules give you guidelines for whether someone is home all day or works all day. The more reliable the puppy becomes the more freedom it is allowed.

A crate is a great house training tool as the book states. Puppy doesn't like to soil its bed. If everyone in the household follows the rules in the book the routine will be set in no time. You will be amazed how your puppy really wants to please you.

Give the system a try! It's remarkable.

Margaret :) Canada

I have to put an answer to this, we got our GSD on sunday she is going to be 8 weeks on Friday, the good thing with the weather in Oxford at the moment is that i can leave me back door open so that she can relieve herself when ever she needs to, but i do put her out for a toilet when she wakes up , and already in a few days she walks to the back door (when the door is shut) has a sniff and looks, so as long as i see her i can promptley put her out. So getting a puppy in the warmer weather is better lol as you can leave the door open.