Can anyone describe what "shoulders well laid back" means (the breed is border collie) I have been trying to figure out on pictures of dogs to see if I can tell the difference between upright shoulders, and laid back, and just can't. Thanks

Very hard to describe, when you've seen well laid shoulders you'll know!   The neck is long and it flows smoothly over the shoulders and then along the back.  Its hard to describe without showing pictures with 'added lines' to show the angulation.

dogsteps is a good dvd to explain the conformation of a dog.

Imagine running your hand down the dogs neck, usually upright shoulders you can almost feel 3/4 down the neck, well laid shoulders are much further back

Just popped in to see how folk are managing without the use of paper and pen...... :-)

This is a visual and tactile concept which doesn't lend it's self to written description.
Hands on with several dogs and a good teacher is what's needed.

There's a picture here that might help.
http://www.siriusdog.com/anatomy-working-canine-dog-shoulder.htm

and another here
http://bowlingsite.mcf.com/Shoulder.html

> Hands on with several dogs and a good teacher is what's needed.

I think unless you are judging a very coated breed, your eye can tell you how a shoulder is placed, mine can!  ;-)

I find when teaching front construction it helps to have the person feel the points of the long bones to measure upper arm and feel the space between the scapulae.
When an 'eye' for construction is learned, looking from the centre of the ring ( in smooth coats mainly) can be enough to assess front assembly but I believe the OP is not judging yet.

Many people 'know' what looks right without understanding why, this often causes them problems when being assessed for judging and that's where hands-on learning comes into play.

True Tooolz,  you see this often when people are judging and they are feeling in the wrong places even though putting the dogs in correct order.    Handling the dog lets you understand things like short upper arms and how it affects the dogs movement etc.  It is a great subject the shoulder area I think.

Thank you to all for your helpful responses :) the link in particular was very helpful. I've spent the last breed show trying to work out what shoulders were where and how it affects movement... guess it takes a while before you develop an 'eye' :)