Has anyone experienced some kind of post natal depression.
My bitch had a litter of puppies 4 weeks ago, this was her second litter and last time she was an excellent mum, very attentive etc. This time she had the puppies on day 55 (there was only one mating so defiante dates), they were all big, healthy puppies - 9 in all which is a huge litter for my breed (mid size terrier). Over the first few days she managed to sucessfully cull 6 of the puppies by various means, digging at them, throwing them against the wall of the whelping box and sitting on them. We seperated out the puppies from mum and just put them with her for feeding and cleaning, we lost one more due to weakness. So we were left with two puppies.  What a horrible experience for everyone, so I am sure that it must have been hard on Bumble (the mum).
Over the past few weeks she has been on auto pilot, doing the minimum just feed, clean and leave. She seems so sad and lethargic - she is eating well and her milk is still in good supply - but she just seems so unhappy. If she was human I would say she has post natal depression - but do dogs get this and if so what can be done to lift her mood? Any help would be greatly appreciated and I feel so helpless with her, she doesnt want to know the other dogs in the house and doesnt really want to know the humans either - she just lies on her pile of newspapers and looks miserable!!!

hi, My girl suffered post natal depression. I don't know if its proven but knowing my girl i am certain she did. Being a pug she unravelled her tail and went from being hectic to down. She didnt appear to be in any pain. Even when the pups were about to go i would bring her into the lounge to play with her favourite toys and it would only have taken her a slightly high voice or eye contact to get her jumping and running around. I couldnt do anything to excite her. In actual fact it has taken her till now to come back to life 6 months later. She seems more mature but had life back in her.
My girl did not enjoy being a mother, although she was a very good one. I guess it isnt for all and she is being spayed very soon because i couldnt put her through that again and that is how i felt about it, i was putting her through it.
Your girl though has been through a lot and may well be grieving for her loss too. i hope things get better.

Poor Bumble (and you). Hope things improve soon.

>Over the first few days she managed to sucessfully cull 6 of the puppies by various means, digging at them, throwing them against the wall of the whelping box and sitting on them. We seperated out the puppies from mum and just put them with her for feeding and cleaning, we lost one more due to weakness. So we were left with two puppies.

She killed the puppies in front of you ? Bitches should never be left alone for the first couple of weeks let alone the first few days

She was supervised 99.9% of the time, split night shifts with my husband - she was very quick and efficient - once she had thrown a puppy against the wall there was very little we could do to save them bearing in mind that they only weigh about 200gms.
I was in two minds whether to post this or not having seen the judgemental answers in the past - please try to help me with the post natal depression - not judge me if I could have saved them or not, we seperated them very quickly once it was clear what she was trying to do. It was very distressing for everyone and I am still very upset about it and I am sure Bumble is - any ideas to help her through this difficult time would be much appreciated.

Well if she is so unhappy I would wean the puppies completed asap & also take her to the vets for a full health check, she may have an underlying health condition.

I am not being judgemental, we had a bitch that never wanted her puppies at all(natural whelping on the correct date)she was never left alone with the puppies & in fact was only with them whilst feeding them(they were also supplemented with bottle feedings), the puppies were weaned by the time they were 3 weeks old & with the help of her daughter were reared without her. They had no after-effects & in fact were some of the most outgoing puppies we ever had(she was never bred from again). I would never allow a bitch that was "unhappy" with puppies to rear them whatever the cause.

There are cases were bitches have actually killed & eaten their puppies, not from "post natal depression"but from instinct for some reason

Just as an afterthought the puppies could actually have had something wrong with them that was not apparent to you, this again is the bitches intinct.

Have you had her for a vet check?

What may be being diagnosed as depression may infact be pain, dogs often don't cry and show their pain, their intitial response is to seperate and look miserable, I really would have her to a vet for an immediate check. Dogs generally dig after whelping to help with the afterpain, I have to admit I was shocked like Moonmaiden that so many could be lost, every movement of a bitch needs to be watched over as pups can easily be sat on or dug at and they need our rescue, throwing them around is something I haven't witnessed however as you say the pups are lost so I agree no point in harping on the hows and why's it's too late.

How is your bitch eating, drinking? Her homones are raging and sometimes there can be a lack of something that causes a depressive, aggressive or weak state.

The honest truth is, none of us here can see your bitch or really advise on what she is in need of, you do need a vet, to give her a thorough examination, check her calcium, sugars, see if anything comes up in a blood/urine sample, before we start to give her the label of depression, she needs a good examination to make sure she has expelled everything, doesn't have the onset of mastitis, eclampsia, it could be so many things, only a vet can tell, but she does need a check over, for her sake and the remaining pups.

> Over the first few days she managed to sucessfully cull 6 of the puppies by various means

How sad for you & bumble but I agree with some of the other posters (albeit I have no experience) mum's tend to do this for a reason, so maybe there were something amiss with the pups you hadn't spotted or the mum had picked up on, but agree there is nothing that can be done to change this now.

Have never heard of PND in dogs but I think you need to take her to the vets & get her checked over & make sure you give the vet all the symptoms.  Please let us now what the outcome is, I would imagine this thread could be quite useful for future breeders.

I took her to the vet three days after whelping, she had full bloods done and everything came back fine - her calcium levels were a little high but OK aparently, she was checked thoroughly and the vet was certain there was nothing left inside etc. The vet thought it had probably been natural selection as well. We took her back a week later for a general check and still happy with her health wise, no obvious pain and she had returned to condition quite quickly, eating well, toileting normally etc.
Thanks for all of your replies, I think only time will heal and maybe when her hormones have settled I will have her speyed - this was to be her last litter anyway.

how sad for you.
hope your girl gets better soon, maybe she knew something you didnt..
good luck with the 2 remining pups x