I know of someone, through a friend, who is a hobby breeder of BC's. Really knows her stuff and her dogs are excellent in show, agility and obedience. She bred a litter from her 4 year old male, and one of the puppies was born blind. She immediately arranged to have the bitch and her dog tested for eye disorders, and he has been diagnosed with glaucoma.  She is obviously never breeding from him again, and has been searching to find out where in his pedigree this originates. I believe the outcome was that it is from an australian blood line, and has been known for some time, but she has met with nothing but abuse in trying to identify it. 

The sadness is that her boy, who is primarily a pet and her pride and joy will be blind by the time he is 7 and she is devastated. She has bought blackout blinds, and is training him, in the dark, to the sound of a bell, to prepare him for when he does lose his sight (he is 4 now). It is so very sad.

My question is, how prevalent is glaucoma in BCs and is there a particular line that it originates from. Is it planned that glaucoma will become a standard test for BCs in future?

At eye testing in Haddenham on the 30th June we had several border collies attend for glaucoma testing. Since Glaucoma is not usually present at birth I would be looking at other eye problems for a puppy born blind like Collie Eye Anomally (CEA).

As to dogs definately going blind with glaucoma it would depend on what type of glaucoma predisposition they have as to how the disease would progress. The collies at the Haddenham eye testing were having the same test that Vizslas and flatcoats have done. So a specialist would be looking for a predisposition in the drainage angle of the eye to estimate the possibilty of the dog getting glaucoma. In flatcoats for example some dogs are so mildly affected that they will not unless very unfortunate go blind.

You are several months behind the research, when the first case was diagnosed in Australia, Alan Wilton started research & there is an ongoing program of eye testing & DNA sampling for affected dogs & their close relatives.

There is an online database for this

I don't know who has been abusive as on the Yahoo group I'm on everyone who has had their dogs tested & irrespective of the results has been quite open about it. I've yet to find anyone who has tried to hide anything. The There is one bloodline that has been noted as being behind more than one affected dog. The mode of genetic inheritance is not yet know & everyone who intends to breed from their dogs should have them eye tested via Gonioscopy before they breed from their dogs.

I suggest your friend contacting Alan Wilton directly for the submission of samples for research purposes via his e mail  a.wilton@unsw.edu.au

> I don't know who has been abusive as on the Yahoo group I'm on everyone who has had their dogs tested & irrespective of the results has been quite open about it. I've yet to find anyone who has tried to hide anything.

I would agree, as everyone at the Haddenham session I spoke to was very open and we even discussed this as they were booking in for the eye testing. Interesting you have an online database for this too.

I dont think this lady will be unaware of the research Alan Wilton is doing as I do believe I know who it is. I do however feel that the puppy in the litter who was found to be blind at eyetesting maybe misleading to some extent as she was also a pup which would not have survived to that age without intensive breeder input. That said I also find it intolerable that she has been treated badly in anyway. She has done nothing but think of the breed first by being open and honest about her experiences.

I had a dog score 5, the worst on the scale, she lived to the ripe old age of 15 still seeing, never getting glaucoma, so even a high score does not necessarily mean that a dog will end up with glaucoma.  Of course though my breed is different so I cannot comment on BC's.

He was referred to a specialist at the Animal Health Trust I believe. Presumably it is a standard test, and doesn't vary in any way?

Definitely not CEA as both parents were clear.

We have bred one litter of Aussies -born 2002, so now adults - both parents were CEA clear, and pups that have been tested have all got clear eye tests as well.  However optigen testing has become available since since the litter was born, and sadly tests show that sire carries CEA gene.   Such a shame - beautiful dogs, lovely clear eyes - but will never be bred.

MM I'm not up with any research, as border collies aren't 'my' breed. I was sad to hear her story and as I am interested in all things 'dog' so posted here to learn more.

As I said, she is very knowledgeable about the breed, and having looked at the link (very interesting) I can see she has registered her boy's details there.

The reason she had the dogs tested for other eye problems was because of the blind puppy in the litter, I'm not aware that the puppy was a result of that, it simply raised alarm bells with her, and her boy proved to have GC. She was told categorically that he would lose his sight by the time he was 7. I hope for both their sakes that it doesn't happen. I would hate to live with that possibility, but, as I say, she is already training him in the dark. She is very forward thinking and her dogs are very active and love training.

MM Regarding the abuse. To my knowledge this did not occur in the UK (but I can't be sure), but arose when she was trying to pin down where it had come from in her dog, so it may have been directly from Australian contacts, as she is very thorough and very determined. 

Thank you for your help, could I ask for the address of the Yahoo group, and I will arrange for my friend to forward it to her.

Borderbility

> Such a shame - beautiful dogs, lovely clear eyes - but will never be bred.

Have the puppies been DNA tested ? There is only a 50/50 chance that they would be affected & that is reduced if the mother is DNA Normal for CEA to nil & they could at the worst simply be carriers

I think you have misunderstood the proper way to use the DNA test results, a carrier can be used on a normal with no risk of the puppies being affected. The DNA test should be used to prevent the puppies being affected, rather than throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Thank you MM. She may well have it or even be active on the forum, but I would like to send it to her anyway in case she hasn't.

MM - there are so many good dogs out there - why take the chance - we decided that we wouldn't.   I know we could have DNA tested, but we decided not to.

China Blue, E is or was an active member of the forum mentioned as I am myself. The lines are going to be increadably difficult to track down as if you look at the database posted above there is no clear picture apart from with one possibley two dogs that  have probably passed this on to their offspring which dogs further back in the pedigrees that they have inherited  this from themselves is the problem. I do honestly think it is going to be quite a way down the road before anymore answers are known as it isn't a simple recesive mode of inheritance and unfortunately we can already see dogs that have been tested unaffected themselves have produce offspring that have narrowed angles. Also there is now an ISDS dog that has failed the goinoscopy so although it has been mainly attributed to the Aus/NZ lines and this may just be a one off occurrance it could also mean that its there but not as common  and has certainly not caused the anguish the E has had. So the best we can do at the moment  is test and publish the information and hope that with more results and more research we can move this forward. so that no one else and their puppies have to face what E has.

Margot take out all the carriers for CEA, then all the carriers of TNS, then carriers of CL, all the dogs with poor hipscores  and all the dogs that fail the goinoscopy and of course the deaf dogs, avoid know epeleptic lines and only use dogs that have had all these tests. It soon narrows the gene pool down considerably. Breeding from a clear to a carrier will never produce affected and then slowly and gradually over several generations carriers can be dropped from the breeding pool also.

The BC is not an exotic breed and has plenty of gene pool available.  If dogs are DNA tested as carriers yes they can be bred to non carriers but I still dont think that is the best thing for the breed.  My young BC was DNA tested after we found out that her mum was a carried for TNS.  We knew Dad wasnt as he had previously been tested.  I had planned on breeding from my youngster when she was older but after her test came back positive as a carrier she was speyed, I dont see that I have the right to introduce even more carriers to the breed as that is just increasing the amount of time it will take to remove TNS from the breed. 

I have been up front and honest about her status and she is listed as a carried on both anadune and on the test result listing to assist other people in researching their dogs.

I know not everyone agrees with my opinion and that opnion would be different if we were talking a less common breed but we arent.

I wouldn't breed from a TNS or CL carrier, but CEA is different & if the dog/bitch is outstanding/has good breeding/ability then I would consider it. However I was replying to a post about discounting ASDs because one of their parents was a CEA carrier-the puppies DNA status is not known as they have not been DNA tested & could very well be DNA normal for CEA

Who has said Border Collies are"an exotic breed"(what does that mean anyway ???) No one has mentioned it but you. Shouldn't your bitches mother have been DNA tested before she was bred from ??

For the record my TNS carrier is also spayed however that was a personal veiw. It doesn't change the fact that narrowing the gene pool by excluding all carriers for all diseases and then further reducing it by trying to breed away from conditions that have an unknown mode of inheritance does lessen even a large gene pool and could infact mean breeding towards something else that isn't a known issue at the moment.  Not many ISDS dogs are tested for all the known illness's so that does infact reduce the gene pool immensely and the argument that they don't carry these conditions can't be proved without them being tested so maybe riskier than breeding from known carriers.
We all were suprised to find carriers of CEA when the DNA test became available from lines that had never produced an affected.

Thanks Satincollie
Yes I believe we are talking about the same person. Well spotted, and I hope that having posted my question I haven't spoken out of turn in any way. The distress involved is so very, very sad.

Is there any movement to make this testing a recommended health test like CEA? Or does more research need to be done first?

It's good to see it is being tackled head on though.

K

Any open discussion can only help inform others and E has my genuine respect for facing this head on. 
The only way forward at the moment is to test and share information with each other and Alan Wilton. The border collie breeders took even the eye-testing panellists by suprise with how proactive they are and they were not sure how to document the dogs being tested to start off with. I think they are now issuing certificates to all,  my own two who have been tested so far were certainly given them. We may need to have the test redone again once it is an established test with the KC as some other breeds have I believe.  I don't think it is only down to the breeders whether it becomes a recommended health test it is also driven by the BVA and the results they see.

when I say exoctic breed I meant that it was a common breed and not a breed that is in sharp decline or has a very small gene pool where there was little choice but to breed from carriers. 

Yes the bitch should have been tested but the breeder was advised when the test first came out not to bother by the clinic as it was extremely unlikely that she would be carrier due to the dogs in her line behind her.