>If you don't compare, quality control or in some way assess your stock....

Nothing wrong with comparing, quality controlling and assessing, what I'm trying to say is that I do not believe that 'competition' should not be the be all and end all in dogs.  Competition can do strange things to folk and things end up out of control, which we see in the extremes in some breeds today. 

What happened to the fun, a good day out, nobody really caring who won so to speak and not everyone racing to breed from the winner...

>Moderates shouldn't leave the show ring to fashions or fads but keep bringing out typy moderate healthy dogs for all to see...what goes round comes round as they say :-)

It shouldn't happen but it does......people get tired at the fads and politics taking hold despite anyone's best endeavours...

>But wouldn't you then end up just breeding for the pet market?

Yes indeed but is that really so wrong for a sector of the breed if everyone else is breeding tightly into saturated genetics of the same dogs...

Like I said before, I appreciate that every breed is different..

> i have to say the gsd is sdo ugly now, every breed should have a level top line!!

This is the description of the topline laid down in the breed standard by the SV
The topline starts at the base of the neck and continues over high and long withers and a straight back up to a slightly sloping croup without a clearly visible disruption.

I think that this is what you mean, and is generally considered a gently sloping topline. What it should not have is a rounded (or roach) back, as in the modern

Not all have the distorted topline you are referring to.  Some working lines and those from predominantly english lines still have a lovely gently sloping topline and, despite what some would have you believe, often coupled with good temperaments and working ability. This is where showing has undoubtedly influenced undue and unnecessary exaggeration, as in some other breeds.

All of these exaggerations are of course fixable, by blending of different lines, but when you have those who see beauty where you and I see ugliness this of course won't happen.

Dakkobear : How did the pre 1960's Sieger show winners manage then? They all have a straight topline, look much better than today's efforts and > presumably managed to perform well enough to be the best of their kind at the time. Has the test changed significantly since the 1960's? If so, was it changed to fit with the 'new look' GSD?

I was wondering the same thing yesterday when I was looking at the historical GSD pictures - all Sieger winners. MM?

>How did the pre 1960's Sieger show winners manage then? They all have a straight topline, look much better than today's efforts and > presumably managed to perform well enough to be the best of their kind at the time.

From what I understand, the sloping topline maybe contributes to hind thrust by allowing the hindlegs to reach further under body.  It serves no functional purpose that I have heard of other than to give the shep an impressive gait...

ok, i used the wrong words but i dont like the sloping back, some are ok and its not so bad, but others it just looks ill and deformed.

no i didnt mean it like that i just meant that i dont like the look, my yorkie x t.poodle has a rouched back, from this he is the fasted dog that our agilty trainers has ever seen.