Am I the only one who's sympathy lies with that teacher - I wonder just what he has had to put up with in the lead up to that incident?
Knowing what pupils are like from my daughters stories is enough for me to draw a premature conclusion on it!

It's all being kept very quiet thought isn't it? I read yesterday there were 3 children involved but only one was seriously hurt.  Obviously it will be a while before all the information is released but my opinion is that teacher must have been pushed to the very edge to have reacted in this way, parents of other school children at the school in mansfield were interviewed ystdy saying this reaction was totally out of character for the teacher.  Either way it's bad news for teachers, they can't be seen to react in this way regardless of the situation, they are given great power & responsibility & should never resort to violence, quite scary really.

>they are given great power & responsibility

They're certainly given great responsibility, but power? No, they've been totally emasculated and had all real power removed years ago.

Its the kids that have the power these days... they know their "rights" and they're not afraid to use them!

Totally agree - I would not wish to be a teacher in these times.

> No, they've been totally emasculated and had all real power removed years ago.

Do you not think someone who is resposible for a childs education, therefore a key role in how the child will grow up, what careers they will take etc also powerful? Some of my old teachers gave me some great advice which certainly helped me in my further education & career choices.

They only have that ability if the children choose to listen; the teachers are powerless to insist. It's the children that have the power, which is totally the wrong way round.

I agree that children have the power these days however I do feel that the teacher should have walked from the room.  I am sure the teacher had been pushed to the very edge of reasoning but he had the option to remove himself from the situation and get help if needed. I suspect he had some kind of a mental breakdown. They did say he had just returned to work after a period of "Illness". From what the parents and children were saying he had been an excellent teacher till that piont. He has my deepest sympathy as his career is now lost but we all need to have the ability to turn and walk away.
In my days at school the cane was still very much in evidence and quite a few of the lads in my class were subject to it...it made them think twice about going too far, and as far as I know never did anyone any harm as a threat!! I am not a great advocate or corpral punishment but I know the odd clip round the ear never did me any lasting harm. I think as per usuall those who abused the system and turned a punishment into a from of torture as in many of the private schools are to blame for the softly softly aproach now used with children in schools. There are so many places now using treats to elicite good behaviour..most unfair in my mind as those who are habitually Good are not getting the recognision they deserve and it is more a case of rewarding in the hope that it will turn kids around. Rewards should be for those who have shown consistant good behaviour, maybe at the end of terms.
This poor man has payed the price for a long run of too slack a leash!!
I smacked my children on rare occasions, a short sharp reminder! they are well adjusted happy grown ups with well adjusted happy children of thier own now. I know only too well that some children are subjected to unacceptable levels of violence (I see it at work unfortunatly) and that MUST be stopped but it is the minority and it's another case of a nanny state.
Aileen

Merlot i totally agree with every word....our village bobby used to give the boys a clip around the ear..my fella being one of them and he credits the local bobby with how he turned out a law abiding citizen (if you dont count the speeding tickets he keeps racking up, he thinks he is the stig!)
as for school bring back the cane! it was a deterant and worked ....Dave had it once and learnt a valuble lesson....

> Am I the only one who's sympathy lies with that teacher

No Carla, you're not!   I too have every sympathy with him - too often I've known really good people who are good teachers leave because of the little darlings :(

This pupil apparently was swearing and insulting the teacher immediately prior to the incident - and this guy - who is said to be a popular teacher has, sadly lost it.

> however I do feel that the teacher should have walked from the room.  I am sure the teacher had been pushed to the very edge of reasoning but he had the option to remove himself from the situation and get help if needed

People don't always have the option to remove themselves from the situation. Confronted by 3 teenagers, maybe armed, with your life being threatened and exit routes cut off, I think most of us would fight to defend ourselves instead of taking the beating.

I'm not saying that's what happened in this case but I can imagine it a possibility. Only a few weeks ago in another Nottinghamshire school a teenager stabbed one of his classmates in the classroom.

> People don't always have the option to remove themselves from the situation. Confronted by 3 teenagers, maybe armed, with your life being threatened and exit routes cut off, I think most of us would fight to defend ourselves instead of taking the beating.
>
> I'm not saying that's what happened in this case but I can imagine it a possibility. Only a few weeks ago in another Nottinghamshire school a teenager stabbed one of his classmates in the classroom.

Have I missed something here.
I cant believe that was the case.

I would hate to be a teacher, but that is  because I dont think for a minute I could command the respect necessary.
It takes a very special person to be a teacher and I believe they should be paid at least double and be treated with a huge amount of respect themselves.
Until it is reported we can opnly guess at the situation.

Karen

I have no teachers in my family, I just think that they are paramount in the future of our children.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20090710/tuk-schoolboy-gravely-ill-after-teacher-dba1618.html

This is an article I found on an attack on a school boy, which I think is the one you are talking about. 

I do NOT feel sorry that the teacher lost his job, and is being held suspect for attempted MURDER.  What if his actions actually kill the boy?  Whatever the boy did, he did not deserve to be injured, let alone left fighting for his life! 

Yes, kids know their rights.  Why shouldnt they?  We all have rights, and one of them would include not getting bloodied up at school BY A TEACHER!  Yes, kids today take it too far sometimes, but c'mon, to be left bloodied up in the doorway by a teachers RAGE. 

I do think today, teachers are limited in what they can do, but it should never resort to violence, no matter the situation.  This was an adult that hurt a child.  I have no sympathy for the adult.  He deserves whatever punishment he gets.   I dont care if the child was cussing and swearing, he could have called for assistance.  Instead, he threw a weight at the child, leaving him in a horrible state. 

I have more sympathy for a child, who probably has lost all faith in the school system, probably will have severe emotional trauma from this, who will have to heal from horrible injuries, and who will have to work through an assault that nearly killed him.  I have sympathy for children who get hurt by people they are supposed to trust, who are supposed to protect them. 

I have sympathy for the parents, who are probably going in a whirl wind, trying to make sense of this, who are trying to comfort their son, who are praying that he recovers, who are now also victims of this teacher, who are now probably trying to put faith into a school system that almost KILLED their son. 

>> I'm not saying that's what happened in this case but I can imagine it a possibility. Only a few weeks ago in another Nottinghamshire school a teenager stabbed one of his classmates in the classroom.
> Have I missed something here.
> I cant believe that was the case.

You didn't read my post properly did you? :-)

It is hard to know what happened in this case that made the teacher "lose it" in such a way. I teach secondary age children who are excluded from school and have also worked in challenging mainsteam schools. Yes it is hard at times to keep your cool in the end we are human but fortunately most teachers manage to hold it together. It would be intersting to hear the full story. This poor man must have been in a state  and now we have a young person ill as well so sad

I expect in your world they were all happily picking daisy's in the school yard just before this happened, whilst being due to go and help all the local old folk on their way home from school too.  Possibly you also feel the student had just handed in fantastic homework, bound to get an A, when all of a sudden the teacher just threw something.  Take off those rose couloured specticles and go mix with a group of todays teenagers just to see what it is really like nowadays

I too feel sympathy for the teacher , as having a mother who is a teacher in a school that has bad behaviourable problems i've heard some awful tales of what pupils can get up to and the teacher is powerless.

My mum has had a pupil threatening to throw a chair at her , but couldn't leave the room to get assistance as she didn't want to leave the rest of the pupils in there with him alone. Sometimes when she has sent for assistance from senior staff no one is available to help anyway and she has to calm the situation on her own.

I know it has been horrible for the boy , and his family to go through this but a I can't think of one single teacher that would harm a child without having been pushed to the edge. This could have been building up for a long time , but because some children know that they can get away with lots of things now they push a little bit further each time. Obviously , i'm not classing all children here - but the ones that have no respect for the people that they should respect.

> I expect in your world they were all happily picking daisy's in the school yard just before this happened, whilst being due to go and help all the local old folk on their way home from school too.  Possibly you also feel the student had just handed in fantastic homework, bound to get an A, when all of a sudden the teacher just threw something.  Take off those rose couloured specticles and go mix with a group of todays teenagers just to see what it is really like nowadays

Excuse me??  I know today is crap!  I know students today can be little horrible children, who have no respect.  I am not that far off from being a teenager (Im 24)!  I do not live in rose coloured specticles, I just dont see how anyone can justify hurting a child! 

Do you think the child deserved to be left in a horrible state?  Do you think children need to fear teachers?  Do you think children should go to school wondering if today is the day they are going to die?  I dont. 

I do believe that this student was being a little tyrant.  I do believe this student pushed a teacher too far.  But I do believe that this could have played out differently.  I do believe that NO ONE should get away with actions such as this.  I do believe that there has to be consequences for ones actions.  And I do believe that if this was my child, I would want some consequences held on the teacher and not just a pat on his back saying "Sorry you had a rough day". 

Just to add, when I was in highschool, every day was a worry.  Worry about getting shot up in school (I went to school just as Columbine happened), bomb threats several times at my school, a gas was released in my school that caused several teachers and students to go to the hospital (myself included) and still we dont know what it was.  A police officer PERMANENTLY at our school, had his own office.  Searches of our lockers by police dogs constantly.  But you still needed good grades with all of this going on.  So tell me, I live in rose coloured glasses.  And that I dont know what it can be like. 

> Do you think children need to fear teachers?

In many ways, yes I do, if it results in quiet children actually getting on with learning rather than creating havoc and mayhem the way some do. I don't think this poor man did the right thing, but previous pupils have said that he was an excellent teacher. It seems he's been let down by the system.

Crespin, you say "Do you think children need to fear teachers?"   What about teachers fearing children?

How would you like to be an working environment, where your morals, your family and your values are abused on a daily basis?   How would you cope with people making personal remarks every time you enter a room - up to six times a day, five days a week?   Over here, in doctors' surgeries, hospital waiting rooms, railway stations and government offices where the public and public servants react you will see notices saying that there is a non-tolerance policy towards abuse of staff.

However in some schools, although lip service is paid to this policy, children (and their parents) can and do abuse their teachers - I know of friends who've been accused of having affairs/being prostitutes, very personal comments about their clothes/cars/homes - all by the children they are trying to teach!   Respect has to be taught at home first - and in some cases this is not happening.

This particular student was reported - by other students - to be swearing at and abusing the teacher (who is said to be a good, popular teacher by other studends) just minutes before the attack.   Of course the attack should not have taken place, no-one is saying it was right - but there, but for the grace of God, goes many a poor good teacher!

Agree with JG that children should fear teachers a little. I don't think it's fair that some teachers should have to fear the children they are trying to teach and have to go into work knowing that they are going to face a battle nearly every day.

I think that you have formed your judgement without knowing all the facts :) Obviously they are still to come out, but on British television yesterday a pupil at the school was interviewed. He was very surprised to learn which teacher was involved and said that this teacher was the last person he would have imagined being involved. I think that others are right that this poor man was suffering a mental collapse. Of course nobody wants a child (or anyone) to be hurt in this way, but it just shows the terrible strain that a section of our youth put on teachers :( Crespin, this is NOT a case of a teacher just losing his rag - I think that you will see that there is a lot more to this. I don't know about Canada - I have never been there, but in the UK we have serious problems with a small section of children whose parents have abdicated all their parental responsibilities and their children have no respect for anyone.

Things are not always as black and white as they seem :(

Daisy

I'm totally shocked at this, schools are not what they were and teachers have to put up with an awful lot of cr*p from some disruptive pupils in this day and age, but what on earth would make a teacher attack 14 year old children. If the teacher felt so helpless he needed to walk out, have the children causing disruption removed, instead he chose to attack.

To date there is no mention of weapons, no mention of the children attacking him, just foul language and cheek, not acceptable but not warrenting a physical attack. An, I can't cope with this job anymore, or a calling for said pupils removal but not this.

I can see the thread has great sympathy for the teacher to a degree I have that same sympathy too, but lets not forget he has almost murdered a 14 year old boy and attacked a girl and another boy also, I'm sorry but what if one of those was your child, cheeky, disrespectful little blighters they may be, but how would you feel if your child went to school one day and their teacher attempted to murder them?

There are good schools, and bad, there are children who are out of control, but violence begets violence, that teaches nothing. This teacher is bang out of order and should be charged with prison, or parole and therapy depending on what happened. We can't go around attacking people who stress us out, half the world would be dead or in hospital if that were the case.

Unless this was self defence it can't be excused in any way.

I definitely think that disruptive pupils should be sent out of class and possibly removed from schools all together and go to special units, I don't envy a teachers job, they should be paid more for all the cr*p they have to put up with no doubt, but teachers can't go around attacking children, they just can't!

> So tell me, I live in rose coloured glasses.  And that I dont know what it can be like.

As you have no experience of the UK schools, you can only surmise what it is like. Most pupils do want to learn & behave, however those that don't cause absolute chaos & on the whole go totally unpunished. Teachers cannot touch children, that is the law, the parents of the"lawless"ones frequently abuse the staff at schools, both physically & mentally along with their children.

My brother & his wife were both teachers from the age of 21 & are both now retired(both over 60-just). Neither if they were younger would go back into teaching & that's despite the fact that my brother never had trouble keeping the pupils in line-he was respected not just for his teaching abilities, but also the fact that he was a Rugby League Amateur Player & Referee & that he is still heavily involved in the younger players in Rugby League. He has no doubt, that had he not been involved in Rugby, his teaching experience would be totally different.

>but lets not forget he has almost murdered a 14 year old boy and attacked a girl and another boy also

Er no he almost killed the 14 year old, murder is a premeditated action & I doubt very much that the guy planned to do whatever it was he did.

In English law, the definition of murder is:

    The unlawful killing of a human being, under the Queen's Peace, with "malice aforethought".

Obviously this should not have happened, but until the full story emerges, the guy is innocent until proved guilty in court.

>  I'm sorry but what if one of those was your child, cheeky, disrespectful little blighters they may be, but how would you feel if your child went to school one day and their teacher attempted to murder them

If my child was involved in making a teacher's life so miserable that he had suffered a mental breakdown (I assume, but we don't know) I would be VERY, VERY ashamed that my child could behave in that manner :( :( One of my proudest achievements is that no teacher ever complained about my children's behaviour in school. Even the police have the ability to charge people who abuse them - can teachers ??

Daisy

I dont think I missed anything...a pupil attacked (stabbed another).?
That was wasn't the issue being discussed as I understood,but the teacher was.
Karen

> I dont think I missed anything...a pupil attacked (stabbed another).?

> That was wasn't the issue being discussed as I understood,but the teacher was

??? :)

Daisy

murder is a premeditated action

True enough, but he picked up a 'weapon' and hit the boy more than once possibly due to what just came from his mouth, there is no mention of a physical attack 'to date' on the teacher from the boy. For all we know he could be having other personal problems which also spilled out into the classroom, marriage trouble etc, who knows.

We are sumizing this teacher has had a break down of some sort, diminished responsibility will no doubt be the plea, but if the boy dies he has killed another human being, if he were my boy I would judge my child to have been murdered by the teacher, the mans state of mind would mean nothing to me the parent, one day my child was alive the next he is in a serious condition in hospital, I think as mothers we need to also have thoughts for those parents too.

There are always choices, if his mind was so far gone he was unable to make those choices anymore then someone must have seen the signs, that doesn't happen overnight, someone saw the teacher was getting to the end of his tether they must have, there is a lot wrong with some schools today, we have therapists in schools for the children, what about the teachers, is there help for them too?

> we have therapists in schools for the children, what about the teachers, is there help for them too?

In one word - no!  Although lip service is paid to supporting the staff, there is no budget for the expense of a counsellor for teachers - and heads are now man-managers and accountats rather than teachers - they have to work to achieve placings rather than teaching.

Good friends of ours (seven separate people, in different parts of the country)  have taken early retirement - one just a year early, three four years early and one (head of dept) has gone eight years early - completely broken down in health.   

I have a niece and nephew who both teach, and although they love the job and the children, they both say the same thing - the problems lie with the parents.   Nephew has even withdrawn his facebook page after the parent of one of his pupils started making comments on it!

I do hope the boy gets better - I wish him well.    There are two families devastated by this situation.

Carrington, you also say "as mothers we need to also have thoughts for those parents too".   I hope that they think about the responsibility they also might have to the building up of this situation.

From the BBC news site:

"A leafleting campaign supporting Mr Harvey is planned outside the school"

I think that this says a lot.

Daisy

I was in fear of my teachers and teenagers had a lot more respect when I went to school than they do now. I know, because I have a 15 year old in a High School - having had to home ed her for a year and get her into a new school because of teenagers running riot at the last one, punching teachers and leaving school as and when they chose - not to mention joining facebook groups inciting violence and bad behaviour!

Good words Loki's mum, no idea what really happened here but just removing a child to "special unit" doesn't solve the problem it moves it for others to deal with Yes extremeley disruptive kids may need a different environment for both themselves and those that do want to learn but resources are short in these units and to help everyone that has to be recognised too if we are  to have any chance of turning these kids and sometimes their families round. Oh yes and it still means they have to be taught by people.
I guess we must remember that so far we do not know what the boy had done to wind the man up so much if anything and yes violence cannot be justified. In most cases a teacher would not retaliate in anything like this way and I know of a couple of situations when students have assulted teachers who have just taken it rather that hit back. Unlike the police and the nhs we do not have notices around saying violence will not be tolerated, we try and use behaviour management techniques instead 

I hope that they think about the responsibility they also might have to the building up of this situation.

Lokis mum not for one moment am I ever going to excuse bad parents, parents who let their children run riot with foul language and behaviour (special needs excluded) our children are a reflection of ourselves and I'm certainly all for this £1,000 fine for parents who will not adhere to rules and help a schools rules set out for a disruptive child, IMO too much time is given to these children, inclusion was a terrible idea, they should be shipped out to specialised units until they can behave, not the problem of a teacher, teachers are there to teach! Not be pshychiatrists and bouncers. Too much is expected of our teachers today, I fully understand teachers reaching breaking point.

But even with all that said, a terrible crime has been committed, someone somewhere should have stopped it from happening, and you can't take the responsibility away from the teacher who did it because he had a bad day.

Maybe this case will force teachers not to strike for better working environments but to band together with the majority of us parents for disruptive children to be taken out of the normal school system.

My son (who is a school governor) has pointed out that we are talking about a science teacher.   Other teachers can, if they reach the end of their tether, walk out of a classroom.    This teacher cannot leave pupils unattended in a science classroom/laboratory - that would be a dismissable offence.  He's been a teacher so long that it would be ingrained in him.   Damned if ff he does, damned if he doesn't.

The teacher is responsible for the attack - obviously -(and I'll bet if he could go back and relive that day again, it wouldn't happen)  but who would you suggest should have stopped it happening?  

I dont know much about this story and am not going to comment directly on it at this stage as i havent heard all the facts. I dont know what events lead up to the point where the teacher assualted the pupil.

I work in a school. I am in direct contact with children and am often the sole person in charge of classes or 25+ 11-16 year olds.
I will admit it is hard work, some pupils are very challenging and some display disturbing behaviour due to the troubled backgrounds many come from. At times they will be very intimidating but at the end of the day they are only children. Fortunately i work in Devon so things are not as bad here as they are in places like London where i know situations are a lot worse. I just look at it that we (teaching staff) are dealing with the rush of hormones, students have got things going on in their life (parents splitting up etc), they have the pressure of homework,coursework&exams. With clear boundaries, guideliness and an understanding of one another a lot can be achieved and students go far. It isnt an easy job and certainly not something anyone can do, the holidays are nice but things are very intense during term time and not all teachers i've come across are suitable to do the job - i get the impression that some dont even like children (!) the kids pick up on stuff like that and being children they will push their luck and try you to the absolute limit. All i can imagine is something like this happened and the teacher the OP is referring to snapped.
For some that saids he should have left the room: a)it is very difficult to think rationally when you are in any situation that is getting heated b) he had the other pupils and their safety to think about c) it was in a science lab and in the wrong hands they can be very dangerous places - bunsen burners chemicals etc. It's always a no no to leave children alone in a classroom.
Normal teachers have their hands tied that they cannot 'touch' a pupil, so if things were getting out of hand there isnt a lot you can do that is why (when working with children) you need to be very clam to take the heat out of situations and persuasive - there is a definate art in getting teenagers to do what you want by making them think they made the decision to do it :-)  In my school, and the ones in my area we have 'behavioural units' where children go if they have been really naughty rather than be externall excluded and rewarded with their naughtiness by spending the day sat at home or gallevanting in town. ONLY the staff from the behavioural unit can 'use force' on children. For exaple, if a child was refusing to do something, being intimidating etc, i woudl phone the unit and they would come down to remove the child from my classroom. Normally the presence of these staff is enough but if the child still wont move the unit staff will go in and physically take the child out (in the correct manner i.e. one holding arms,one holding legs) Ive only seen force used on a handful of occasions but i am thankful to have that support and back up a phonecall away if i need it.

Putting myself in his place, (though I would want £200,000 a year to do that job! ) If I had 3 very disruptive children, firstly I would ask them to leave the classroom, ask a sensible member of the class to watch over things if there were chemicals etc out in the lesson and either frog march them to the headmasters office, Deputy head, head of year, student services or the pastoral office, whatever they have in place at that school.

If he really couldn't leave the class, then I would still ask them to leave and find their own way, if they didn't go to the allocated place and left the school instead, then it's not the teachers problem, again a problem for the parents to deal with. If the children would not leave the classroom the worst he should do is push them out, or better still send a pupil for help.

To be honest maybe teachers need an emergency button under their desks to press when help is needed or if a teacher is needing to get out of the class.

But no matter what the draw backs were to control the situation (if there was one) what he did was not even on the list of things to do.

> If I had 3 very disruptive children, firstly I would ask them to leave the classroom, ask a sensible member of the class to watch over things if there were chemicals etc out in the lesson and either frog march them to the headmasters office, Deputy head, head of year, student services or the pastoral office, whatever they have in place at that school.
>

You absolutely cannot leave children unsupervised in ANY classroom (especially one with dangerous equipment in)  no matter what the situation or however sensible you think the others may be.

You absolutely cannot leave children unsupervised in ANY classroom (especially one with dangerous equipment in)  no matter what the situation or however sensible you think the others may be.

Granted, re: my second paragraph, but let's be honest out of the two evils, it was still the better option than what he actually decided to do instead.

If he really couldn't leave the class, then I would still ask them to leave and find their own way, if they didn't go to the allocated place and left the school instead, then it's not the teachers problem, again a problem for the parents to deal with. If the children would not leave the classroom the worst he should do is push them out, or better still send a pupil for help.

I think that if they were creating problems in the classroom then the chances of them leaving the room calmly are pretty slim. They would probably cause trouble elsewhere within the school. Also if the confrontation was close to the class door then it may not have been possible to ask another pupil to safely leave the room for help.

The best thing he coold have done was get another member of staff in to sort it either with his assistance or to relieve him from the classroom or take 5 mins to clam down before returning.

Unlike the police and the nhs we do not have notices around saying violence will not be tolerated, we try and use behaviour management techniques instead

Believe me after working in an A&E environment for some 10 years the notices are not worth the paper they are written on. We also try to use behaviour management as well but I have on many an occasion been in some very dodgy situations. Unfortunatly some of the worst offenders are aged 14/18 and many are girls. drug and alcohol abuse inflames situations and it can get very hairy. We have to call in the police in extreme cases and we also have a duty of care to others in the environment if something kicks off. Many times we have all ages in the waiting room when a crowd of youths start something, and even though a science lab is not the best place to leave unattended sometimes you just have to walk out and get help immediatly. There is no need to lash out, even if you cannot get out I am sure there were other classrooms close and a shout would have brought another teacher to investigate. We have often had to leave a clinical area ( yes with very possibly teenagers in it) and get help and believe me they also can be dangerous places, sharps, gas, oxygen, etc..but violence of this severity is only ever excusable if in self defence and better to get out than get onto that position. I still think the teacher  probably had too much to put up with but he should have found a better way of dealing with it.
Aileen

>than what he actually decided to do instead.

I suspect (when the truth comes out) he didn't actually 'decide' to do anything. I would be very surprised if he made any rational 'decision'. As for 'frogmarching' a pupil anywhere - that could be a tad risky with a few pupils :(

Daisy

The best thing he coold have done was get another member of staff in to sort it either with his assistance or to relieve him from the classroom or take 5 mins to clam down before returning

That is what he should have done, also if any shouting was going on, why did other teachers not pop their head out to see what was going on? I'm sure throughout the attack there was screaming from all the pupils.

If in a seperate building, how was he supposed to do this, do all classrooms have a telephone, or as suggested an emergency button? I know many now have computers with e-mail facilities to other staff.

We do need more information as to what actually did happen, I just find it unbelievable that it could ever happen.

They're certainly given great responsibility, but power? No, they've been totally emasculated and had all real power removed years ago

have to agree with you JG on this , i feel sorry for any teachers these days specially in my area  most of the kids i see pouring from our secondary schools need a good clip round the ear they are so rude these days,
gone are the days when you feared your teachers, or getting into trouble at school but then you have to put some blame on the parents to if the kids were actully bothered that they were going to get  a letter or a phone call home from school when they were bad then maybe more would behave themselfs ,
i remember hoping the wag and being scared to death that my mum would find out as i know she'd have killed me i used to steam open the letters if i knew one was on its way and woould give it to my nan to deal with as nan more or less brought me up and she was more understanding my mum would just of battered me

I remember in my day that things being thrown at you by the teacher was a fairly common occurence.  I feel for everyone involved and do feel the the PC brigade may have a hand in this.  Children these days get away with anything without any consequence.

All rooms should have a phone and emergency buttons are on certain areas - reception, behavioural unit etc. If it was a new building (like our school is) then room are almost sound proofed so the teachers next door wouldnt neccessarily have known what was going on.

> Children these days get away with anything without any consequence.

There are still definate consequences to all childrens actions (good and bad), but maybe not as severe as they were once upon a time though

I feel sympathy with the teacher too.He'd come back a few weeks ago after a stress related stroke,to the very job that had caused his problem.I read that the class was mocking him by singing,"I'm looking at the psycho in the mirror".I hope the lad recovers,but it certainly makes you realise what a terribly difficult job teaching is these days.He shouldn't have been put back in a teaching position when he'd obviously got a big problem with stress.

I work in a primary school in an area which is not socially deprived at a school which has a good reputation. We do have some problem pupils and a fair few problem parents. We are not allowed to manhandle children, leave them unattended in any circumstance  - no exceptions to that rule - and do have some children who have a total lack of respect for anyone or anything. I have personally been bitten, kicked, punched, spat on and sworn at by pupils with the youngest offender being just six years old :-(

Most pupils do respect each other and the staff but there are a small minority who can make life very difficult for everyone and, apart from excluding a child, there is not a lot that one can do about it which is a very sad state of affairs.We are not allowed to "frogmarch" a child anywhere, we cannot restrain them in any way or form and if we did we would be facing disciplinary charges and very irate parents. Some parents have no control at all over their children and it is usually those parents who are the first to complain about anything and everything and will not accept the imposition of any form of discipline related to their child. I once sent a child out of the classroom for continued bad behaviour and had his father knocking on my front door the next day to complain about my actions.  He refused to believe that his little darling would ever behave in the manner that earned his removal from the classroom.

How very sad that the impossible position that teachers can be put in has resulted in such a tragic occurrence. The role of a school is to educate children but this is becoming more and more difficult to do in some areas - teachers should be there to teach and should not have to spend a good deal of their time policing those who do not wish to learn nor fending off the verbal/physical attacks of pupils and their parents. Perhaps this dreadful situation will highlight the enormous stress some teachers are operating under on a daily basis :-(

He shouldn't have been put back in a teaching position when he'd obviously got a big problem with stress.

I agree

The problem is being a good teacher isn't enough, many teachers are extremely intelligent, know absolutely what they are talking about, but without that air of authority, or a fun factor, they just can not hold childrens attention. When I was a child there was more respect for adults and nothing like the problems teachers of today have to deal with, but even then, my then maths teacher was a very nervous man, which some of the boys took advantage of, you could almost see the poor man shaking when the boys misbehaved which was basically talking over him or just to each other ignoring him, he couldn't cope with it, in those days though the rest of us would tell the other children to behave. The strict teachers had those boys listening,  a good deep growl was enough to keep them in order.

My then maths teacher had a breakdown and was made a joke of when he came back, it was Christmas just when he returned and I ran up to him with a Christmas card, the poor man looked terrified as though I was going to attack him............ ME! (In those days things like that didn't happen) That actually scared me that he would think that, and I can remember thinking he shouldn't be a teacher and I think I'm right.

The teacher here had a stroke, not quite the same, but IMO he never came back the same teacher did he? He should have taken more time off, or retired from the proffession, we know strokes can be stress related. Teachers need looking after more, and that teacher must have shown signs of not being all there, why was it not acted on?