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Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / What would you do?
- By kenya [gb] Date 07.07.09 09:27 UTC
A breeder sold a puppy without papers for a reduced cost, as the person only wanted a pet. Anyhow the person was told her puppy was nice and should show, so paid extra and got its kc papers.
Anyhow at a show recently the puppy was there, and while looking at the catalogue noticed the puppies sire and dam are different to its siblings, date of birth the same, and I know they only had the one litter.
When I came home checked a catalogue where its sibling was shown, and right enough different sire and dam, the new owner wont know any different.
What would you do, report this or ignore this????
- By NEWFIENOOK [gb] Date 07.07.09 09:39 UTC
It might have been a genuine mistake but seems unlikely that a breeder would make a mistake like that, dont know quite what i would do but if you knew the breeder perhaps a word to her might be in order, would the KC want to know  mmmmm!! even if you told them what would they do ?
- By Granitecitygirl [eu] Date 07.07.09 09:45 UTC
Perhaps there was a genuine error or miscommunication.  However the fact the breeder allegedly sold the pup for less and without papers sounds odd - particularly as there was a recent thread on here regarding a similar subject.  Why sell a pup without papers for less when the breeding is the same?  You are paying for the care of the pups and the background surely.  It should certainly be reported by the pet owner and show pup owner.  Have the two owners met and discussed this?  Really it is up to them to progress anything. 
- By Carrington Date 07.07.09 11:53 UTC
With only the one litter, how on earth can they write down the wrong Sire and Dam? Sorry, sounds dodgy, it is not something that would not be noticed. I would be calling the KC, how many more pups out there have faulse Sires and Dams it may be quite a large racket going here, needs stamping out. Call the breeder first and ask them what is happening, (don't expect you will get much of a response) then ask the KC to investigate.

The downside is the pup or pups may well not actually be KC registered, but better to find out now rather than at a show, other competitors are very knowledgable about their own breed, they will soon smell a rat, we all ask questions and look very closely into the background of other dogs, more so than the KC apparently, best to get the truth now rather than later. :-)
- By sam Date 07.07.09 16:36 UTC
it could just be a typo by the printers? For windsor show this year i receieved a greyhounds passes in my name....anything is possible so  best to get it sorted out even if ut does mean there is trouble ahead.
- By dogs a babe Date 07.07.09 18:54 UTC
Was it you that noticed the different parentage, and checked the siblings OR was it the new owner?  Do you know if the new owners KC paperwork matches what was printed in the schedule?

In order to decide what action, if any, to take you'd need to know where the mistake occurred.  It could have originated with the new owners and be a simple error on the entry form or a mistake made by the printers which the new owners will need to get sorted before their next show.

If the different information was recorded by the breeder then you'd need to know whether there was a mistake made when they registered the litter OR something more deliberate.

Either way you'd probably start with a conversation with the new owners but be clear what your motivation is - I'm sure they'd appreciate the heads up if they'd made a mistake BUT if it's the breeder then you should probably leave it for the new owners to deal with.  You can explain what their options are but I'd hesitate to get too involved at this stage as it could get unpleasant later. 
- By Moonmaiden Date 07.07.09 19:05 UTC
You could try the KC's health test result search putting the puppies names into the search & see if it throws up the puppy & then the parents Just a thought !
- By kenya [gb] Date 08.07.09 06:34 UTC
Thanks for all your comments, it was me who noticed it in the catalogue, and checked another catalogue where its sibling had been shown, and then was sure, also checked breed supplement, and it was'nt registered, its very strange how the new owner who doesnt know anything about this, has completely different sire and dam of her puppy!!
I thought also it could be a printing error, and its going to a show in a couple of weeks, and its a different printer who does the catalogues, so i will have a look then, if the same, I will try to speak to the breeder nicely, which won't be easy!!!!
The owner of the puppy hasnt never shown in her life, and is very green to this all, don't want to upset her, rather her breeder spoke to her.
- By perrodeagua [gb] Date 08.07.09 11:36 UTC
Oh dear, well in some ways you should advise someone, but unfortunately if it does go further with say the KC these poor people are going to have a dog who they won't be able to do anything with anymore.
- By kenya [gb] Date 08.07.09 12:27 UTC
Appartently there was a 2nd litter who wasnt kc registered, until the lady wanted to show!!
So I suspose I should 'nt jump to conclusions!
- By dogs a babe Date 08.07.09 12:51 UTC

>Appartently there was a 2nd litter who wasnt kc registered, until the lady wanted to show!!
>So I suspose I should 'nt jump to conclusions!


How strange not to register an entire litter...
How unusual to have 2 bitches whelping on the same day...
How peculiar that it was someone other than the breeder that thought the pup suitable to show...

No wonder it made your 'detective senses' twitch! :)
- By NEWFIENOOK [gb] Date 08.07.09 13:25 UTC
It is strange but i do know some one who does this , mates 2 or 3 bitches at the same time and to save money doesnt register them  unless someone wants K C papers then charges more (saves money she thinks)  abit of a byb  she is not in my breed but another giant breed
- By hayley123 Date 09.07.09 13:22 UTC
why is it unusual to have 2 bitches whelp on the same day?
- By triona [gb] Date 09.07.09 13:54 UTC
Becasue most good breeders wouldnt dream of having 2 litters at once it takes lots of planning usaully when the breeder breeds its because they want to keep a puppy for themselves, they would want to give full attention to the bitch and her pups, having 2 at once is a huge handful.
- By LucyDogs [gb] Date 09.07.09 14:42 UTC
And even if you did mate 2 bitches at once, and I know reputable breeders who have done this because they've been having bitches miss time after time, the chances they would both whelp on the exact same day are pretty small!
- By kayenine [gb] Date 10.07.09 07:50 UTC
I know (from the BRS) of someone in my breed who last year had 2 litters on the same day, then 4 days later had 3 more litters again on the same day. All by the same sire (who they own). I also know that people have bought dogs from unregistered litters from there so there may have been even more :-(
Anyone who has my breed will know exactly who I'm talking about.
- By JeanSW Date 10.07.09 10:36 UTC

> Becasue most good breeders wouldnt dream of having 2 litters at once


Not entirely true.

Last year I mated two girls, both to different sires.  I wanted a show pup for myself.  While it is perfectly sensible to assume that a breeder will have a decent show pup turn up in a litter, it isn't always that easy if there are few to choose from.

This particular breed has 1-3 pups on average.  I could have had 2 litters of one pup in each, and all boys, when I wanted a bitch this time around.  My bitches litters were born quite close together, but that shouldn't make me a "bad breeder" as your post suggests.
- By triona [gb] Date 10.07.09 13:18 UTC
Im not saying having 2 makes you a bad breeder but... the majority of people dont usually have 2 at the same time
Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / What would you do?

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