Goodness....whatever is happening....2 police dogs have died after being left in a police van in this heat!!!.On the news this morning....I only caught the tail end of the report.

Just read this story-who dreadful.Thoughts like should have known better comes to mind,but this thoughtless act won't bring back the dogs.Sad indeed.
[url=][http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090702/tuk-police-dogs-die-in-hot-parked-car-6323e80.html/url]

How tragic for the handler.

These poor dogs, hope whoever responsible for this is sacked!!

Irresponsible, brain dead , Muppet springs to mind....He wasn`t on duty and had just popped in to see his mates at the station!!!

He hasn`t even been suspended!

RIP brave doggies xxxx

By Granitecitygirl   Date 02.07.09 08:10 GMT  How tragic for the handler.

Tragic for the handler?  What about the dogs?

Those poor dogs :-(. I havent seen the full story yet but you'd think the police would know better?

How tragic for the handler?  THose poor dogs must have been in there for some time to be found dead by the RSPCA and for the RSPCA to have got there before the handler!

I hope he gets charged.

Tragic for the handler?  What about the dogs?

Police dogs are not only a tool used by the force, they are the sole responsibility of the hander - although not family pets they would have still been a part of the family.  You have to want to be a dog handler, you don't just get put into the role.  The handler may never be given a police dog again plus he has to live with the knowledge that he messed up big time - not only has he cost his Force several thousands of pounds in investment (more if the dogs were drug sniffer dogs, just think of the drugs that won't be found!) but he has effectively killed his "partners" through negligence.  Yes poor dogs but why state the obvious when everyone else is doing that very well.  Whatever the papers say, there will be some sort of disiplinary procedure I'm sure.

We have dog runs here so hopefully the cops will be smart enough to use them instead of their pokey little vans.

For me there is no excuse. Its not like the hot weather has come as a surprise, its been around for days, and there are warnings about it. Nobody should walk away leaving a dog in a vehicle. Those vans are even worse and the two dogs body heat together would have been enough on an average day.Somebody should be reprimanded. Two valuble members of our police force have been murdered I hope they get remembered.

> I havent seen the full story yet but you'd think the police would know better?

Advice from the KC regarding hot weather:
NEVER:
Leave a dog unattended in a car, even with the window open and water available. Take them out of the car and find a secure, cool place with access to shade and water.
Let your dog take part in unnecessary exertion, or stand in exposed sunlight for extended lengths of time.
Pass by a dog if you see one suffering in a car. Whether it be in a supermarket car park or at a show, make sure you let someone in authority know and if in doubt call the police or the RSPCA

Yes, the police should know better, especially a dog handler.
How horrible for the dogs :( :(
I hope this article on the news is enough to stop anybody else leaving thier dog(s) in cars in this weather.

i found this link

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196962/Police-dogs-die-left-car-temperature-soars-29C.html

i am sickened by this i really do not know what to say it makes me so sad what a very very stupid thing to do i am shocked and gutted , poor dogs RIP ,

There is a serious lack of common sense going around, so tragic, all that time effort and training gone, and a terrible way to die. When will people, Think! The handler will have to live with what happened, what a terrible shame they were not found in time.

I read on a Facebook status last night that a dog had died in a car on the way to some where, so even whilst in motion the heat can build up regardless of fans, air con & the windows open.

Rest in Peace, sweet brave babies.  May you run free at the bridge. 

The police should be repremanded for this!  They should have known better!!  ARG....it just maddens me. 

By Granitecitygirl   Date 02.07.09 09:16 GMT  Tragic for the handler?  What about the dogs?

Police dogs are not only a tool used by the force, they are the sole responsibility of the hander - although not family pets they would have still been a part of the family.  You have to want to be a dog handler, you don't just get put into the role.  The handler may never be given a police dog again plus he has to live with the knowledge that he messed up big time - not only has he cost his Force several thousands of pounds in investment (more if the dogs were drug sniffer dogs, just think of the drugs that won't be found!) but he has effectively killed his "partners" through negligence.  Yes poor dogs but why state the obvious when everyone else is doing that very well.  Whatever the papers say, there will be some sort of disiplinary procedure I'm sure.

Oh come off it! Dog handlers are among the most highly skilled of dog owners in the country. They know darn well that you NEVER under ANY circumstances do things like this on the hottest day of the year in the middle of a flipping record breaking heatwave. What could possibly be more important to a Police Dog handler than the safety of his own dogs in blistering temperatures like this?

Sod the dog handler, i feel more sorry for the dogs i'm afraid!

There is just no excuse for this at all. The policeman who's dogs they were should be severly repremanded...fired even, these dogs have no say in what happens to them and they give thier lives for thier handlers.
I am just sickened by this news. Poor poor dogs, no doubt he will have to suffer the heart ache of this for many years but he is alive and nothing can bring them back. Having just lost a dog to illness and suffered great pain I cannot begin to imagin how I would be feeling if I had been responsible for her death. No matter how bad he is feeling he should not be allowed to walk away without sever repercussions.

RIP you brave doggies,

Aileen

Pardon my ignorance but I don't believe I was excusing the handler for his negligence?  If that's what you think I have been doing then I can only apologise if my posts have been confusing.  And I would have to disagree with the comment that they are amongst the most highly skilled dog owners - like the mounted officers, the Forces prefer you to have NO experience so that they can train you in their methods and habits.

Im in no way sticking up for the handler...but the majority of police dog vans have air con and are actually designed to be able to leave a dog in the van safely for a period of time, so maybe the system failed while he was away. Until we get the facts im going to hold off...but if it does turn out that he left the dogs in a van with no cooling system then he deserves everything they get.

I think it is disgusting that anyone, especially a professional dog handler, is leaving a dog in a car or van in this weather! I have a crate in the car for my dogs but it is open wire it's not solid like the one in the newspaper article and I would assume that a more solid crate would heat up even quicker!

I was under the impression that the requirements and training of Police dogs and handlers varied from region to region?

I think was is inexcusable (apart from the obvious) is that there was no need for them to be there. He wasn't on duty so he should have left them at home in their cool kennel or whatever other home arrangements he has.

Ive just read this and in my office we think they should be prosecuted, I know they would prosecute if it was a member of the public this is really unforgiveable I hope the handlers feel responsible because they are! 4 of us in this office are really incensed with our two ( dog's) under the aircon to image what those dogs went through appalling.

> Im in no way sticking up for the handler...but the majority of police dog vans have air con and are actually designed to be able to leave a dog in the van safely for a period of time

I don't think they were in a dog transport van, all the articles I've read say they were found in a car, but then that could just be how it's been reported, rather than the actual facts.

"The dogs were found dead in a parked police car outside the force's headquarters on Tuesday afternoon." Taken from here.

The handlers responsible should be named, shamed, sacked and prosecuted - but not until they have been left in similar conditions to those that their dogs were left - they, of all people should know the implications of leaving dogs in this heat without checking at regular intervals.  To say that they should have been in an air-conditioned vehicle and the air con had somehow failed is still no excuse.

He was off duty, so doubt that they were in a van!

Now, I can't be absolutely sure on this, but I know of a prison dog handler and she can't just have the dogs in a car. They can only be transported in a vehicle which has a secure caging so that the dogs cannot escape by accident. She can't even leave the dogs in her partners care if she goes away on holiday they have to be left in a designated kennels. I would have thought that the dogs may have been in the police van as that would have all the facilities to carry the dogs securely. Poor, poor dogs, this should not have happened.

> Now, I can't be absolutely sure on this, but I know of a prison dog handler and she can't just have the dogs in a car. They can only be transported in a vehicle which has a secure caging so that the dogs cannot escape by accident. She can't even leave the dogs in her partners care if she goes away on holiday they have to be left in a designated kennels.

I would have thought that a prison guards dog is classed as a 'guard dog', in which case they have to have a handler present at all times if they are not secured. I wouldn't have thought a police dog is classed as a 'guard dog' as they are not used to guard anything/anyone.

It can take as little as 10 minuets for a dog to die in a car on a hot day even with an open window. Its so sad that people still think a quick trip away from the car leaving a dog in it will be OK. I feel so sorry for these police dogs. The police should know better , they are the ones who are supposed to be setting an example. Lets hope the news story makes more people think before leaving a dog in a car.

> Oh come off it! Dog handlers are among the most highly skilled of dog owners in the country. They know darn well that you NEVER under ANY circumstances do things like this on the hottest day of the year in the middle of a flipping record breaking heatwave. What could possibly be more important to a Police Dog handler than the safety of his own dogs in blistering temperatures like this?

Police dog handlers the most highly skilled, not in my recent experience, many dog handlers are police officers with a dog rather than the single unit they used to be. having seen some recent footage of "Police Dog Trials"& Police dogs competing in WT their handling ability is mixed to say the best & awful in some cases.

Motivational training is a rare thing in Police dog circles & the old pull & force methods are still the norm in many forces. Most still use chokers incorrectly & also use chokers that are the wrong size for the dog concerned.

IMHO most WT/VPG handlers are far more competent that  Police Dog Handlers & a good WT/VPG handler use motivational methods.

Do agree with your last bit. As he was not actually on duty why weren't his dogs in either his home kennels or the police dog kennels-what on earth was he doing with them in a closed vehicle ?

> I would have thought that a prison guards dog is classed as a 'guard dog', in which case they have to have a handler present at all times if they are not secured

The  Prison Service Dogs are the Prison Service equivalent of the Police Dogs, they are not"guard"dogs they undergo the same training as Police dogs. The Armed forces do have "guard"dogs but none of the civilian services do

By Granitecitygirl   Date 02.07.09 10:57 GMT  And I would have to disagree with the comment that they are amongst the most highly skilled dog owners - like the mounted officers, the Forces prefer you to have NO experience so that they can train you in their methods and habits.

Are you actually reading what you are typing here? The Forces prefer Dog Handlers to have NO experience? No background in dogs whatsoever? Then perhaps you could explain to us all why there are no openings in parts of Hertfordshire for new Dog handlers because there are rarely any vacancies owing to the fact there is a recognised trend particularly in Borehamwood for people who are already in the job to remain there for years?

If they prefered people to have NO experience then why would they stick with people who had backgrounds in dogs as well as years of experience as dog handlers rather than being open to new applicants? Serving officers in some constabularies are being turned down because new openings are so rarely available.

Lets hope the news story makes more people think before leaving a dog in a car.
Sadly it wouldn't surprise if it didn't, after all, we are still getting calls to go back to vehicles at championship shows, were, in my opinion, people should know better. This is so so sad.

Are you actually reading what you are typing here? The Forces prefer Dog Handlers to have NO experience? No background in dogs whatsoever? Then perhaps you could explain to us all why there are no openings in parts of Hertfordshire for new Dog handlers because there are rarely any vacancies owing to the fact there is a recognised trend particularly in Borehamwood for people who are already in the job to remain there for years?

If they prefered people to have NO experience then why would they stick with people who had backgrounds in dogs as well as years of experience as dog handlers rather than being open to new applicants? Serving officers in some constabularies are being turned down because new openings are so rarely available.

Because it is a real career in the Force.  And believe me I know ;-)  Why leave if you have found your niche?  Those vacancies are like gold dust and highly sought.  And I stick by Forces prefering handlers to have minimal/no experience so that they are easier to train.  Training the handler is far more difficult than training any of the dogs.  I've had friends turned down for dog and mounted because they were TOO experienced and deemed too hard to train in the Police way.  I have never agreed with that approach though - if they can get the best from the animal then they should be given the job.

Look, lets leave it at that Flyball. This is a tragic accident, whether through negligence or whatever, the handler did not intend to kill his partners - because that's what Police dogs are supposed to be, part of a team.  He has to live with that loss - and he'll never be allowed to forget it.  Knowing how highly prized and respected Police dogs are in their Forces I can only imagine the grief and anger in that Police Force right now.

Two words, absolutely disgraceful!!

> The  Prison Service Dogs are the Prison Service equivalent of the Police Dogs, they are not"guard"dogs they undergo the same training as Police dogs. The Armed forces do have "guard"dogs but none of the civilian services do

I wasn't refering to any training involved, I was refering to the purpose of a dog from a legal perspective. If any dog, regardless of training, is used to guard, or put in a situation with the intention of it guarding, it is classed as a 'guard dog'. I would have thought that applies to the prison guards dogs (the patrol dogs, not search/drugs dogs), as they are used in a guarding capacity, whereas the police dogs are not used to guard.

> I was refering to the purpose of a dog from a legal perspective.

Prison Service dogs are NOT guard dogs, they are not used to guard the prisoners or the jails or anything, they are trained & licensed the same way Police dogs are. They are always with their handlers whilst on duty. They are not used to stop people accessing a property & ergo are NOT guard dogs in teh legal sense

It is only whilst carrying out "guarding duties"that a guard dog has to be with it's handler, off the premises it guards it can be left as a"normal"pet dog can.

The Armed Forces"guard"dogs are actually attack dogs & trained to "detain"anyone in an area they should not be in. No Prison Service or Police dog is trained in this way.

Have to say I agreee with Moonmaiden, I know from personal experience.......... ;)  police dog handlers v civilians? No contest!

As for how they died, I think it best to refrain from comment until the FACTS are known, rather than idle speculation!

What ever happened..has and that officer should never be allowed to be a dog handler again.
Those two dogs have lost their lives through his negligence.

> This is a tragic accident, whether through negligence or whatever, the handler did not intend to kill his partners - because that's what Police dogs are supposed to be, part of a team.  He has to live with that loss - and he'll never be allowed to forget it.  Knowing how highly prized and respected Police dogs are in their Forces I can only imagine the grief and anger in that Police Force right now.

If this is a tragic accident isn't a show dog being left in a car with the same consequences whilst their owner handler gets all their belongs from the benching area also a tragic accident? I don't see any difference.

> They are not used to stop people accessing a property & ergo are NOT guard dogs in teh legal sense
>

Ahh, I see. I was getting confused because of this:
"There are three types of dog team deployed throughout the (prison) Service - patrol, search and passive drug dog.
The patrol dog team has a wide range of responsibilities within a prison. Their main role is to secure the perimeter and deter intruders" Taken from here
I was taking 'secure perimeter and deter intruders' to mean the same as 'guard'.

>The Armed Forces"guard"dogs are actually attack dogs & trained to "detain"anyone in an area they should not be in. No Prison Service or Police dog is trained in this way.

The following is part of the trials completed by the patrol dogs.
"In "chase and attack" the handler commands their dog to subdue a fleeing "criminal" by grabbing onto their arm and hanging firm until instructed otherwise." taken from here
Again, this is training displayed in trials, so perhaps only being trained to 'hold' does not count towards being a guard dog, if the dog isn't expected to be called upon to 'hold' while at work. (Though i do not see why a working prison dog would be trained to 'hold' people solely for display purposes).

I did not intend on causing a big debate, I was merely giving a passing thought as to why the police dogs in the news may not of had to be in a specially secured van when unatended like the prison dogs mentioned by another poster, therfore it would be reasonable to believe the news reports that state the dogs were in a police car.

Van or car, it is a tragic end to two dogs lives that have served for our society and it should never have happened :(

I don't see a difference either- both groups declare to love their dogs and yet have allowed this to happen with dire consequences- What a horrible death.
Maybe having it in the news will remind people it only takes minutes.
No one has set out to kill their dogs but should know better and think more- Just my view

>I was taking 'secure perimeter and deter intruders' to mean the same as 'guard'.

They are in reality a deterrent & as such(like the police dogs)are licensed & must as licensed operational dogs must be accompanied by their handler at all times whilst on duty. They are not used in the same way a guard dog is used outside of the police force/prison service-guard dogs do not have to be licensed as far as I am aware(at least the ones that security firms dump in rescued aren't licensed)

In the PD stake at WT there are usually very few police/prison dogs-the majority of handlers are civilian handlers & the police/prison sections hold their own closed trials with exactly the same exercises. A friend of mine has a 4 year old Collie x GSD who works C only in Obedience & has now qualified to work TD at Championship stakes & he's in training for PD stake as well. His protection work is awesome & his handler has him to the minute with his protection out command

Whatever uniform he was entitled to wear,this man was supposed to be looking after the welfare of 2 dogs,who happened to work with him.He allowed them to suffer horribly and die.Whether in a car or a van makes no difference-he could have taken them with him to go in wherever it was he was going to see his mates.
I am replying to you,annm172 only because your post fits my thoughts more.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196962/Police-dogs-die-left-car-temperature-soars-29C.html

seems they were left in his own car

> seems they were left in his own car

Yes, so it wasn't a case of air-con failing. :(

"The dogs were left in his private vehicle in a police HQ car park as temperatures hit almost 30C.
It is thought the heat in the car could have reached 50C. The car was parked just a few yards from temperature-controlled kennels built to house Nottinghamshire police's dogs in comfort."
Taken from here.

:( :(

It is so very sad, other dogs would have lost thier lives or have been put in danger by being left in cars in this weather, but one would really expect the police to be aware of the dangers, they are the ones that can come along & break into a car to rescue swealtering dogs, when the GP report of the suffering, they should know the rules regarding welfar & safety as they are part of the justice system that inforce those rules and they shoul dknow why those rules are there to start with - to prevent suffering & cruelty and dogs dying in hot cars. :( :(

When picking my kids up from school yesterday, I had a lift. I sat in the car waiting for my boys, with the doors & windows open, but within 5 minutes the heat that had built up in the car was absolutely unbearable, I had to get out. I can't imagine how dogs shut inside a closed up car (even with windows open) must feel :( :(

I do hope the person gets charged and should be allowed another K9 Officer-Ever!

So very sad :-(

The handlers responsible should be named, shamed, sacked and prosecuted - but not until they have been left in similar conditions to those that their dogs were left

Totally agree, but life isn't like that, the cruel, evil, thoughtless people seem to get away with murder and murder is what this is no matter how we look at it :(

Not sure if anyones linked this but you can go here http://www.nottinghamshire.police.uk/contact/feedback/?go=y to lodge a complaint and hopefully more the merrier to get them to do something abuot the idiot responsible

I think you may find that the term "guard dog" is the generic term for any dog that
has been trained for manwork wether owned by a private security company/police or armed forces
patrol dogs and is not a dog used solely to guard property/premises on a commercial basis