Hi I have a breed that is normally put on the table for the judge to go over but mine really hates being looked at when on the table despite trying all sorts to get her confidence up. She doesn't mind about being stroked by strangers when she's on the ground and as long as they're not too invasive (backs off otherwise), on the table though it gets too personal for her and she gets upset and shows it.

Can I ask the judge to go over her on the ground instead and would they think it odd? she's a terrier breed so not miniture in size. I just thought about trying it to see if it makes a difference to her.

I'm glad you have asked this as I am having the same problem with my young bitch. She has had no problem with being on the table until recently and I don't know why as she has had no bad experience, I'm hoping it is a faze she is going through. Currently I am giving her her meals on the table and just putting her on there and giving titbits to try and get her back to how she was. She use to be rock solid on the table and it is really getting to me that she has gone like this because if she doesn't improve he showing days are over before they have really started :(

I have one who is exactly the same and I was given a great bit of advice which seems to be working.  Try getting someone else to stack her on the table and you go over her, making a big game of it.  Mine is definately improving but these things dont change over night and alot of patience is needed.

Good Luck

Unfortunately as it's a table dog it has to be gone over on the table.  Hope it's resolved soon.

My Ringcraft trainers told me once that it is ok to place a table dog on the floor. I've done it myself once when the table at Boston Open was so ricketty and unstable my girl hated it (As did I as I thought it might colapse). Not many did the same but I noted a Junior Handler in another class due the same and her dog was placed.

It is customary to show some breeds on the table the same as it is customary to stack some breeds, but neither is compulsory.

> neither is compulsory.

But it is rather a blatant sign to all and sundry that the dog has 'issues'.

> But it is rather a blatant sign to all and sundry that the dog has 'issues'.

I think this is why I would never want to ask a judge to be honest.
My mum had an exhibitor ask her once in Basenjis if they could stack their bitch on the floor because she had had a bad experience at the previous show. My mum agreed as she had seen this dog on the table before with no problems and eventually the dog got over it. I am hoping she gets over this as it has come completlt out of the blue. I have until August for my next show but ringcraft has stopped for the summer now so will just have to rope in friends that belle doesn't know too well.

Thanks for the replies.

I can go over and so can my family whilst she's on the table its just people she doesn't know - not sure whether she's had a bad experience on the table at a young age,cant say i've been aware of anything but the tables sometimes are a little wobbly and must cause a dog to get a little worried by it or judges can be a little rough without us knowing what the dog feels. I took her to ringcraft at 12 weeks and the only thing that i didnt like was a woman there that constantly shouted at her dog or her child, she was quite an imposing figure, I only did a short time there as didnt like it and no one told her to reduce the noise.

Surely it isn't always a 'blatent sign that the dog has issues' as it may be the handler that is unable to either pick the dog up through disability or that is of a very short stature that if the dog were on the table they would be unable to position their dog to its best advantage - are allowances not made?

good luck CALI2 - i know how you feel about having to give up.

I hope your girl improves over time.

showed my parents Corgi a couple of years ago at Bournmouth Champ, just to see how he'd do. I never took ringcraft or anything, put had him for a couple of weeks whilst my folks were away and practiced with him. Trouble was he really hated being picked up, to the point where I almost didn't show him. Anyway I did, and got him on the table (basically by scooping him up before he knew what was going on), and he stood great on the table. Talking to the judge as she went over him, I said I was so relived at getting him on the table, and she replied by saying "well you could have stood him on the floor, that wouldn't have been a problem."  arrggh!

He got two 1st places (although not in Crufts Qually classes and only one or two entries!)

> Surely it isn't always a 'blatent sign that the dog has issues' as it may be the handler that is unable to either pick the dog up through disability or that is of a very short stature that if the dog were on the table they would be unable to position their dog to its best advantage

It would be obvious if either given example were avoiding the table for those reasons - just as it would be obvious if it was because of a temperament problem.

I have a bitch who has issues with 'the table' and, as usually the case, it's because she doesn't want to be handled by strangers.
I consider this to be an atypical character for her breed, and as such, I wont be showing her again and she will not be involved in my breeding plans despite being one of the top young bitches in her breed.
These are 'showdogs' we are discussing - if they dont want to show then are not fit for purpose in this instance IMO and you are asking them to do something they really dislike.

I think I may know why she has taking a dislike to the table, she has come in season today. She is 18 months and it just started at ringcraft last week so fingers crossed this is the reason. She has been to many shows and ringcrafts and stood like a rock on the table every time including her 1st show at 4 1/2 months in the baby puppy class and we have never had an issue with people going over her so hopefully this is the reason.

Unfortunately as it's a table dog it has to be gone over on the table.  Hope it's resolved soon

Is that a KC rule?  I have to say if I were judging a dog (particularly a puppy/junior) I would give it & the owner the benefit of the doubt.  Every dog should have a positive experience in the ring & if it was a phase a dog was going through, why upset it & spoil it for future shows?

But then again, perhaps it's because I've been on the end of the lead from numerous dogs going through weird & wonderful phases ;-)

Well let's say in over 20 years of showing have never ever seen a table dog gone over on the ground, not even puppies.  It may not be a rule but there again doubt that anyone would allow a floor dog to go on a table, may have had a better chance with you know who if that had been allowed :)

I'd have thought most table dogs would be very difficult to go over on the floor as the judge would have to bend so far down. Not easy to for instance check bite.

No, there is no KC rule that says a dog traditionally judged on the table must be judged on the table. Similarly there is nothing to stop a non table dog being put up on the table to be gone over.

My first vallhund adored showing but hated going on the table so when she hit vetran i said that was it she didn't have to do it anymore.  I never had any problems showing her on the floor at either champ or open shows.

I know in some breeds, for example German Pinchers. some show on the table and some on the floor

Hi kate long time no see!!!!

Anyway I have seen some table dogs stood on the floor, I haven't however seen toy breeds stood on the floor.  However if a judge can asses a basset/bulldog/staffy mouth on the floor they can manage most table dogs I would have thought!

There is no KC rule, it's just the norm,  Then same as the norm is to have in mixed breed classes table dogs first...

However if a judge can asses a basset/bulldog/staffy mouth on the floor they can manage most table dogs I would have thought!

BIG difference between any of them and a Chihuahua or Papillon though! I know I cannot stand one of my Paps on the floor and manage to bend down far enough to open the mouth, they are SO far down! At dog club when I did the bronze test with them all and the instructor during practice goes round checking each dog has a disc on its collar, I used to either lift the dog up or either point downwards and say "It's down there!!" LOL. There has to be the possibility that some judges only judge table dogs and physically cannot bend down as far as some and still manage to judge as with table dogs they don't need to.

I'm in toy breeds so I suppose that's why I've definitely never seen it there. 

I was once asked to show my Cavalier on the floor as for some weird reason her back legs kept slipping away from her on that particular table - other dogs seemed ok and she is usually ok standing on tables, but for some reason it just didn't work that day. She got 3rd in a big class, so it's not unheard of even if unusual.

To return to the original question and problem -"on the table though it gets too personal for her and she gets upset and shows it."

Yes you could insist that your dog be shown on the floor, she may win, you may be tempted to breed from her and keep a puppy to show....on a table!

> However if a judge can asses a basset/bulldog/staffy mouth on the floor they can manage most table dogs I would have thought!
>

I have never understood for example why on earth whippets are judged on the table when they are as tall or taller than other breeds that do not go on the table.