Hi there,

My bitch is either on day 66 or day 63 and her mucous plug has been stringy and coming away for the last 5 days and we had a nice temp drop from 38.4 (it rose to that as was at 37.5 mostly) to 36.7 3 days ago....now her temp is sitting around 37.3 and has been the last 2 days.

My vet is relatively happy but would like to see her at 11am for a check up.

My main concern at this point is inertia. Puppies are still active but certainly not as much as yesterday. What I would like to know is how can you tell when the bitch's cervix is dilated? Is it ok to do an internal exam? If so how dilated would you expect the cervix to be to allow delivery of the pups?

I don't want the vet to jump in to a c-section and am worried about this as in herself she has been fine although hasnt eaten anything today but ate well yesterday. And one thing I find strange is the lack of stools yesterday as she didn't seem to need to go at all. Oh an no discharge at all.

(medium breed 22" at whithers and 21.7kg usual weight)

It may just be that it will take her a while to get moving - my last bitch was in labour for 36 hours before puppies started to be born. I went for a scan after 24 hours of labour to check the pups weren't distressed. They were all fine so he sent me home to wait.

Take your vets advice - A C section is a serious operation and they won't take it lightly, if the vets says she needs one then she needs one.

Has she started digging, panting, vomiting etc? Also, is your breed one that normally needs C section?

Yes been digging, panting (no vomitting although she would'nt eat this morning or last night) for 3 days on and off. She whelped with no problems at all last year and that litter was 9 she is expecting 10 or 11 this year so not too much larger. My breed isn't known for c-sections but are slow whelpers.

Good, I guess I'm just paranoid that he'll jump at a c-section but I guess he knows what he is talking about

Kelly
Just to say that my last girl was slow - and overdue!  Naturally I was worried about inertia.  I took my girl to the vet for him to check if she was dilated.  No way was I rushed into a C-section.  If you have always trusted your vet in the past, I would say go with what they say.  My girl had an internal by the vet every two days once she was overdue.  If she had seemed distressed, I would have made that more often.  Good Luck,  Jean

Ah thanks Jean that sets my mind more at rest :)

I guess we are all the same when it get's to this time lol so stressful

My vet always rushes into c-sections, my girl that has a litter now ended with a section with her 1st litter due to a big stuck pup, second litter was a singleton (HUGE) so another section.  Decided to try one last time, vet told me she would definitely need another section......WRONG!!...........she whelped naturally a lovely litter of 7 pups 3 weeks ago.  I often wonder if vets actually know enough about whelping and just rush into it because they don't know what else to do.....either that or the ££££'s

Yeah Sharon that is part of my concern...and it's terrible that it crosses our minds at all. I want what's best for my girl and something just tells me she just isn't ready or at the very least give her another day.

If I knew what I was looking for dilation wise I could of kept an eye on it myself and would have felt more confident in a vets recommendation of c-section.

Oh and i'll add no waters have broken and mucous plug was still coming away this morning...pups are still active albeit not as much as yesterday

My vet always rushes into c-sections,

I would consider getting another vet!!

I'm sure she will be fine - It can take ages, especially as your breed is known for being slow whelping.

On another note, if you don't have the faith in your vet to trust what they are saying 100% then I would consider another vet.

My breed is know for C Sections (90% need them), normally people don't even attempt to let them self-whelp. With my first litter ever, my vet advised me to let my bitch have a go, I was so scared something was going to happen to her and just wanted to book her in for the section but they refused and assured me they would be there if something went wrong. Anyway all was fine and I'm so glad I listened to them! Like I say, you need to be able to trust your vet 100%, if you can't do that you should be asking if it's the right vet for you.

Hope all goes well with the puppies!! :)

Everything is ok...she started shivering in the vsts (typical lol) and is fully dilated so pups very soon

Thanks everyone :)

>My vet always rushes into c-sections, my girl that has a litter now ended with a section with her 1st litter due to >a big stuck pup, second litter was a singleton (HUGE) so another section.

In the cases stated I would more or less expect a C-section!  A big stuck pup can cause a whole litter to be lost and depending on why/how the pup is stuck, has no chance of moving - putting not only the litter but also the bitches life in danger.  Similarly a HUGE singleton puppy - if it is too big to be born normally :(

In humans two C-sections in the past would flag up a warning that a C-section would be a high possibility, so again the vet was giving a responsible warning.

Goodness!  it isn't often I don't question a vet's advice !!!!

I'm with you Dill - I don't see how those litters could have been born other than by C-section! I'd also have been worried about having another litter because of the strain on the uterus after 2 previous sections - lucky she didn't have problems and got a nice litter. :-) I know in humans - may have changed now - but 2 cousins born by C-section, and their mother was told it would be too dangerous for her to have another baby.

But you do need to trust your vet's opinion - and if you don't you are better off finding a vet you trust and can work with.

> I'd also have been worried about having another litter because of the strain on the uterus after 2 previous sections

Agree wholeheartedly.  I would have a girl spayed if she had had 2 sections.  Well, to be honest, mine are spayed after one.

Dill is right about the vet doing the right thing with large puppies, I would have expected it, and I trust my vet 100%. 

> and is fully dilated

Whoo!  Whoo!  Exciting ain't it?  :-)

Good Luck soon to be zombie!  :-)  :-)

good luck with the whelping, we are on day 61 with our bitch today

Awe thank you guys.

We have one very restless and whiney girl so think we may have first pup within 2 hours :D fingers crossed!

I would have a girl spayed if she had had 2 sections.

Me too. I've been lucky to not have needed any in bitches (yet -never say never) but have in cats, and there my rule is always if they need a second section, they are spayed at the same time as the section is carried out.

I had a section myself and was told that a section weakens the uterus and makes it more likely to rupture during subsequent pregnancies, because scar tissue doesn't stretch the way normal uterine tissue does. After 2 sections I certainly wouldn't make a bitch have a third pregnancy.

Not much point in getting another vet, you can guarantee that my girls whelp at night, our vet covers this side of Bristol for out of hours surgery, so even if we changed, we would still end up here if a problem cropped up at night or weekends.

Not much point in getting another vet, you can guarantee that my girls whelp at night, our vet covers this side of Bristol for out of hours surgery, so even if we changed, we would still end up here if a problem cropped up at night or weekends.

My vets don't work nights and the night time vet is awful so I know what you mean. Although I travel further just so that I can have a vet I like / trust. In all fairness though, from what you put above about your vet, don't know how else the first 2 litters would have been born if not for C section so maybe your vet's not all that bad?

> I would have a girl spayed if she had had 2 sections.  Well, to be honest, mine are spayed after one.

In all conscience I couldn't contemplate another litter from a bitch who needed a C-section either, the spey would be done at the same time.   Luckily C-Sections aren't common in my breed :)

Have to agree Dill, and with the strain on the uterus from a litter of 7, I hope sharonm realises how fortunate she was not to lose her girl - in fact maybe a bit of appreciation for a vet who obviously performed the two C-sections faultlessly would be in order rather than an accusation of being money grubbing or ignorant? Can't believe any bitch is so fantastic or rare that anyone needs to attempt a third pregnancy after two C-sections - very foolhardy IMHO.

> Can't believe any bitch is so fantastic or rare that anyone needs to attempt a third pregnancy after two C-sections - very foolhardy IMHO.

Totally agree

I had my Champion bitch - DNA tested clear of CT -  speyed just as she came into season as she had a 'lump' on one of her mammaries, vet told me it was probably a cyst after mastitis in that gland.  We had the stud dog arranged for her second litter, but in all conscience I couldn't go ahead - her health was more important than my hope for another Champion.