Hello everyone, I need some advice please. I have a 9 week old male cocker spaniel, and have had him for just over a week now. He is very playful and bites quite a lot, but last night while he was playing with a toy he snarled at my partner and bit him twice, and did the same to me once when we went to stroke him. He was very nasty with it, and has never done anything like that before. We are very gentle with him, and don't play rough with him.

We have a 4 year old son, so obviously I don't want this to continue.

I've had two cocker spaniels, and one springer spaniel in the past, and none of them have ever behaved like that. Although we have no other dogs apart from him now.

What should I do? And help / advice would be very useful.

I bet he was over-excited and/or over-tired at the time, wasn't he? This is perfectly normal puppy behaviour, so don't worry! Have a read of the Bite Stops Here and follow the excellent advice it gives.

With your son being so young still, I'm sure you can rmember how he'd get stroppy if he was overtired and needed a nap when he was a toddler - puppies are just the same, and need their nap times managed for them.

And, of course, only allow your son to play with the puppy when you're there to supervise. Both can accidentally hurt each other in play. Small children don't think in the same way as adults do, and only a few days ago there was a news report of a puppy that survived being flushed down the lavatory by a four year old!

I'd start by reading this article :-)

http://www.jersey.net/~mountaindog/berner1/bitestop.htm

PMSL!! JG beat me to it!!

I think the article already recommended will be invaluable to you.

But just wanted to say that this is not puppy aggression.  9 week old puppies are not aggressive.  He is just being a dog.

Thanks guys, I'll have a good read though that. Looks like it will be very helpful.

I think we all have different acceptable standards, and therefore interpret the word aggression in different ways. When a dog purposely snarls, snaps, and bites with intent for no reason, I would call this aggression. No matter how old. He didn't just accidentally bite too hard when playing. Thanks for the advice anyway.

Did your son ever shout "No!" and hit out at you when he was a toddler? Would you say that's aggression, or normal frustration?

And it wasn't for 'no reason' - the puppy knew the reason, it's just that humans often don't!

Hi Cockerdog

I wonder if he is over-tired?  Teddy is my 17wk old shih-tzu and he is certainly not aggressive by nature but as he has got older (we've had him from 10wks) i have become more aware of what annoys him and when.  For example he used to tolerate being picked up by the kids (i have  a 6 & 8 yr old) all the time but gradually he has started to growl more and more if they do this when he is not in the mood.  Usually this is when he has just woken up or is having a snooze.  The other day he went to bite my younger daughter and was quite aggressive about it; but i have told her hundreds of times not to bother him when he's tired.  I think the shock of it taught her a lesson!  I understand you're worried about your little boy getting bitten though - have you got a cage where you can put the pup for regular sleeps so he can't be bothered?  I found this was a great way to ensure the children couldn't be tempted to touch and fuss when they shouldn't.

> When a dog purposely snarls, snaps, and bites with intent for no reason, I would call this aggression

Good point, but you are talking about a puppy, and they usually bite, growl & snarl becasue they intend to play with you the only way they know how (untill you train him otherwise) or intend to communicate that they are uncomfortable/overtired/over exited etc. in the only way they know how (untill you can train/redirect otherwise).

>No matter how old. He didn't just accidentally bite too hard when playing

My eldest son (human child) bit me when he was a toddler, it left a mark for days. He wasn't agressive, he was a toddler, with much to learn about communication and self controll, it is not a sign that he would grow up to be an agressive adult, it was him doing what a lot of toddlers do. Your puppy is doing what most puppies do.

Puppies if left to nature would play with other puppies & dogs, thier skin is much tougher than ours so they can play much more roughly with thier own species than they can with us. They are not born with the knowledge that people should not be bitten the same as dogs can - that part is up to us to teach them.

> I think we all have different acceptable standards, and therefore interpret the word aggression in different ways. When a dog purposely snarls, snaps, and bites with intent for no reason, I would call this aggression. No matter how old. He didn't just accidentally bite too hard when playing. Thanks for the advice anyway.

<Sigh>

If he was truly aggressive he would not warn you first, he would simply bite you. Growling(or snarling as you call it)is the dogs way of warning other animals, they cannot say-leave me alone.
When the adult has had enough they will either pin the puppy gently wiht a paw/their mouth or give a low grump & walk away.

You have to teach him the boundaries of acceptable beaviour in a non confrontational way. I do not allow my puppies to mouth me at all from day one, if they start I get up & walk away from them. The link given is a good place to start.

Dogs do not have the same view of life as we humans do, the only thing I agree with that Caesar Milan says is that dogs live in the now. They do not plan to bite, snarl or snap they react to a situation they find themselves in. Puppies explore their world with their mouths, noses & ears. If you do not what your puppy to mouth you then take steps to distract the mouthing onto a soft toys/tuggy etc. Do not react if you are nipped, even squeaking or yelping actually encourage the beaviour(as it does in the litter)

He did accidently bite too hard, because you ave not taught him what is acceptable & what is not

Think back to when your other dogs were young, did you have them as puppies ? How long ago was this ? Lots of people forget how their previous dogs behaved as puppies & see them though rose tinted glasses

If he was truly aggressive he would not warn you first, he would simply bite you. Growling(or snarling as you call it)is the dogs way of warning other animals, they cannot say-leave me alone.

Growling or snarling is still aggression. Aggression is threatening behaviour, and growling and snarling is threatening!

If he was truly aggressive he would not warn you first, he would simply bite you.

Even a "truly aggressive" dog can and does often give warnings... Aggression doesn't start with a bite, it starts with threatening behaviour which can be simply body stiffening, staring or growling, snarling etc.

I would also point out that in some rare cases, puppies as young as this can show real aggression! My ACS was a resource guarder from day 1 when we had him at 8 weeks old and would fly at other dogs if they tried to take anything away from him and would also threaten us around the food bowl. In his case, it turned out to be an underlying thyroid problem (apart of course from learning manners), but I would not say that young puppies NEVER show real aggression, because in some rare cases, it is possible! It's unlikely, but not impossible!

Vera 

> Growling or snarling is still aggression. Aggression is threatening behaviour, and growling and snarling is threatening!

It is not aggressive parsay the growl is a warning that the dog feels threatened or it can be a play growl. Many new puppy owners mistake the noise they hear & the curl of a lip as being growling & aggression, when in fact it is only play noises.

>My ACS was a resource guarder from day 1 when we had him at 8 weeks old and would fly at other dogs if they tried to take anything away from him and would also threaten us around the food bowl.

In puppies resource guarding is NOT aggression, it is an instinctive behaviour, often found in puppies that have been communally fed. These puppies need to be fed away from other dogs & from the hand into a dish to learn they do not have to guard their food & that humans mean food provided & not taken away-basic really.

Your ACS was not aggressive he was being defensive, protecting his food/toy-natural behaviour in the wild !

>but I would not say that young puppies NEVER show real aggression, because in some rare cases, it is possible! It's unlikely, but not impossible!

Well in the years I have been dealing with problem dogs/puppies(GSDs)simce 1964 I've never yet found a truly born aggressive puppy, fear aggression is a learnt behaviour, resource guarding is not aggression, it is an instinctive survival beaviour.

Mine did this as a baby and we corrected him and at two he's fine (he was by 4 months). We just took away from him whatever it was said No loudly and he never did it again.
The only other thing we had a problem with was food and again we corrected him, said no and took it away from him, after a few times he realised we would not eat it, didnt complain and that stopped.
We have about 9 children under 6 (Great family and Grandchildren) and have to be confident that the dogs are safe.

You are dealing with a small pup that needs guidance to good behaviour. Can I ask if he is left to eat his dinner alone? Do you have an area where he can rest alone? like a crate? He is showing that he consider's it HIS toy and just needs reassuring you dont want it. Prehaps a few tug games rather than fetch type until he realises playing with you is more fun that playing alone possesively. Give him guidance, be firm and make sure you do it all the time so he know's what is what.

Your ACS was not aggressive he was being defensive, protecting his food/toy-natural behaviour in the wild !

I am sorry, I do not agree! A dog growling or even barking in a threatening way is aggression regardless of what the motivation is! Play growling, barking etc. is a whole different story... my ACS even pulls his lips up etc when playing, which is absolutely fine! (And I agree that many new puppy owners mistake play growling for aggression). But whether a threatening behaviour is instinctive or not, it is still threatening and therefore aggression! It also makes no difference whether aggression is justified or not, which of course goes back to what the motivation is! If a dog bites, it uses aggression regardless whether it is justified self defence or not!

By the way, my ACS would have attacked had I not interfered, even at that very young age! He was dead serious, regardless of whether it was instinctive or not! I can assure you though that all his resource guarding issues were well taken care of and he is absolutely safe now with people and perfectly reasonable with dogs around his food (the latter only since being on thyroxine due to being hypothyroid).

Vera

I just want to reassure the OP that what his puppy does is perfectly normal for a puppy or any dog that has never learnt to have other people/dogs being around his food. My ACS was an exception due to medical problems taking resource guarding (and other aggressive outbursts) to a whole new level.

Well in the years I have been dealing with problem dogs/puppies(GSDs)simce 1964 I've never yet found a truly born aggressive puppy

Neither have I in 20 years of dog training/behaviour work until I had my ACS (where it turned out to be mainly an underlying medical problem) and very recently a client whose 4 months old puppy went for other dogs in an extremely aggressive manner - AND MEANT IT!

It is extremely rare, but as I said, not impossible! Aggression, like most other behaviour, is influenced by hormones, nervous system, genetics etc. as well as learning experiences. And it is perfectly reasonable to assume that any of those elements could go wrong in a young puppy as they can in an adult dog and therefore cause exceptional and abnormal behaviour patterns like aggression!

Vera

Ooooh.... *dons tin hat*...

I actually agree with you both but Vera, you are not actually helping the OP whose concept of aggression is not the same as yours.

Aggression, ie, growling, snarling, biting, is a TOOL in a dogs toolkit - its there for many of the same reasons we can use it, and it comes out to play to deal with immediate situations, usually caused by fear - fear of being hurt, fear of losing something valuable, fear of the unknown etc..

Aggression IS NORMAL. ALL dogs have the ability to use aggression just like all people, all adults, all toddlers, all OAPs...

The differences are that a toddler will shout NO! and kick and thump and bite, the OAP will belt you with a walking stick, the drunken adult in the street will hit you wtih a bottle.... but its all a normal thing we all have the ability to use.

Like the toddler, the puppy doesnt have the life experience to know when a simple 'i dont like that' would suffice, in fact he doesnt know how to SAY 'i dont like that' and its up to the puppy owner to teach it.

Some puppies use aggressive behaviour far more readily than others - this does absolutely NOT mean they are going to grow up evil nasty vicious adults - the ability to be aggressive, and the immature, juvenile animal useing aggression when it has no other alternative does NOT mean a dodgy evil nasty adult, not at all!

However, ifyou dive in headfirst and do what Whistler posted above, take things off the puppy, shout NO when it growls and thus teach it that when hes fearful he may lose something, he is right and he WILL lose things, you are liable to teach a puppy to use aggression! So.... dont do that.

Prevent puppy from feeling the need to use aggression - dont take things that are his, if he growls to tell you something is scary/painful/unpleasant then dont go and stroke him or faff with him further. If you are worried, leave the 'scene' and think about what to do - reacting in anger to a puppys behaviour is never sensible!

Understand that whats in his mouth is his - you can and should teach him to give you things he has on command but this is achieved by teaching him that you have something better, never by snatching or grabbing, at best this teaches him to run away with things hes found and at worst he will learn to use his teeth to defend his 'property' (and being a dog hes got naf all idea that you paid for the mobile phone and its worth £200  so complaining that its not acceptable for a dog to steal your stuff is pointless and a waste of time. Accept these things will happen, stay tidy and put things away, and teach your dog that YOU have wonderful things and are worth listening to, not to be feared!).

Puppies teeth are really sharp for a good reason - they are small, clumsy, move relatively slowly compared to adult dogs and this and their loud yelps/growls (which they will have been practicing since they were a few weeks old) is ALL the have to defend themselves and their stuff.

When you have a toddler to consider, play biting, over enthusiastic playbiting, a pup more willing than others to use his teeth and mean it (perhaps one bullied by his littermates, or perhaps one from a smaller litter who WAS the bully!), its serious no matter what the intent is.

You cannot however expect the puppy to understand, any more than you can expect the child to - so keep them seperate, dont let either one annoy the other, puppy toys are not kids toys, kids toys are not puppies toys and its your job to make sure that that is made clear (by putting away the kids toys, by teaching the child not to take or mess with the puppies toys).

If you teach your pup bite inhibition and never give him any need to defend himself or his stuff, he will not grow up a problem adult (unless there is some underlying medical problem, which is highly unlikely). It sounds like the incident you describe in your first post was a case of an over tired wound up puppy who doesnt know how he could have politely ended the game - although perhaps he tried we dont know, did he attempt to take his toy off by himself, put a paw over it, lie on it etc before he snarled and bit? Its quite clear that once that far wound up, you going to stroke him was viewed as a threat and that is why he bit you.

Look out for signs that he wants to stop playing with you and take his toy off by himself - stop playing BEFORE that happens. Get hold of books about dog body language (i like Turid Rugaas but there are others) so you can recognise the signs and respond appropriately.

I think that we actually don't have anything like enough information to be able to give advice, to be honest :) .

We only know this occurred but we have no video, no full description - we therefore cannot really know whether it was overtiredness (very possible), "aggression" (less likely but possible), or play biting (very possible but we can't be sure) and even if we did have more info it may not be of any help.

My suggestion would be for the original poster to not overtire the pup, be aware of the "zoomie" times, often in the evening where pups go a bit bonkers, and also to ensure the pup is taken to good puppy classes for socialisation and advice if that isn't already happening (sorry can't recall the age of the youngster :) ).

Good classes at www.puppyschool.co.uk or www.apdt.co.uk

If the problem occurs again, do not react to the pup but make a note of everything that occurred at the time and before and after and call in a reputable trainer or behaviourist, I'd suggest:

http://www.apdt.co.uk/local_dog_trainers.asp
or
http://www.apbc.org.uk/regions.php

Best wishes

Lindsay
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Also check out the diet and treats -avoid colourants, additives, preservatives where at all possible - and sugars!

Avoid food such as Bakers as some believe it can cause behaviour problems :)

Blimy so you recon that by removing the problem, teaching the pup that it is fun to play with me instead of alone I dived in head first.
I must have done something right as neither of my two have bitten anyone ever. Its the possesiveness thats at issue, a pup should learn that you do not want to "keep" the toys or food but can be trusted to return the item to them when you as Uno 1 have finished with it.

Possesiveness is shared by children I think we all had to reach a child to share, its common sense. The pup is warning off as they do in the wild and in the den as new babies.

Im not going to sit a tiny pup down with Clement Frued or Ceasare Millan ect just use common sense. "Diving in headfirst" he was the size of a shoe box, a bit of an over exaggeration there I think :-) it worked twice so i dont think Im that far out. Its just an opinion, I bet the original poster is only convinced that we all disagree with other rather than what to do for the best!

Mm.. i reckon you got lucky and thousands of people who have tried what you have done, have made the problem worse, got bitten and wound up having the dog rehomed or put down.

I know this... ive seen it.

If i come over and take some money from your bag... and then give it back to you. Which bit would stick in your mind the most... the taking? or the giving back?

Youd really trust me if i took stuff that is to your mind and your species social rules, yours, purely because i gave it back?

Possessiveness is born from a need to protect belongings, if there is no NEED to protect them there is no possessiveness - you teach there is no need by teaching swaps, not by grabbing the pup and taking things from them and then giving them back. Faulty logic there and it can, and does, result in problems.

Yes, unfortunately I do agree - it is a fact that for every dog who responds positively to being told off and food or toy removed, there are many more who become much worse. The problem is, you can't tell which dog/owner will be successful and which will be worse, so you have to approach the problem with caution and preferably get help on it :)

Lindsay
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