I have a bitch who is full pedigree but Non KC reg, (but is Reg on the activity register) and a male who is fully KC reg. Can i register the litter with the KC? And if so, how do i go about it??  Or can i only register the pups on the activity register?? Also, how do i go about doing this?
Thank you

No you cant register them with the KC only dogs that have a kc number and no endorsements can have thier pups registered by the kc over here in the uk.

Im not familiar with activity register so i cant say about that, but i wouldnt mate a bitch without kc papers.

Louise

Why wouldn't you mate without KC papers? because KC papers are the be all and end all? They mean the dog is purebreed...Thats about it....My bitch is purebreed... my bitch has also had her hips scored, eye tests done with clear eyes and had a DNA profile......I am a very sensible person and i take my bitches health very seriously.

Being KC registered is a peice of paper, and the only reason i want them registered is because most people who buy pups ask about it...

Most people i know whos dogs are KC reg don't even bother with health checks, all they care is that the dog has KC papers....I'm in the opposite position.

I certianly don't want to be rude, but i dislike people judging from the off-set.  This bitches health and all her health checks were my number 1 priority before breeding....KC papers have came as 2nd priority, which is why i'm now asking.

If someone could please advise me the route to take regarding registration of litter please... either KC or activity register.

Thanks

short answer, no.

> I have a bitch who is full pedigree but Non KC reg

a full pedigree is just a list of the dogs ancestors, it doesn't matter what kind they are as in its simplist form a pedigree is just a bit of paper. KC registration means that there are supporting records. they also keep records of health tests.

before contemplating mating your dogs please consider the following. the we embroiled in a recession at the moment and no one has money to buy pups- top breeders are having trouble selling pups now.

additonally breeding is a huge responsibility- firstly no one here will reccommend breeding from any dog not considered of quality by independant examination, that means showing or working and winning. as your bitch can't be shown and you don't mention work she is not really a candidate from the word go.

if you did breed a litter you are responsible for those pups for their entire lives- if at 10 years old there owners can't cope you need to take them back. i don't know your breed but say they have 8 pups- can you house them all at a push as adults?

you are also morally and legally responsible for completing all health tests for your breed- if your breed has an eye test for example and you don't do it and sell the pups and a pup gets the condition you are liable.

you might also lose your bitch, and thats not a rare might. if you use the search facillity you will see how close it comes with huge frequecy and how often they are killed :(

why do you want to breed them anyway?

> Most people i know whos dogs are KC reg don't even bother with health checks, all they care is that the dog has KC papers

then they are really foolish. what they should care about is that the dogs are health tested and proven to be of quality in line with the breed standard in the show ring or at work.

my gosh, i'm really getting a digging aren't I.
This bitch is a working girl.
Registered on the KC activity list as competes in Agility and has been to crufts twice (for agility).

There you go. thats why i want to breed.
3 of the pups will be staying right here with us to become working dogs

Like i have already said. This bitch has had all health tests done. 

Seriously, what more can i do...

I came here to ask a simple question, not to justify myself.

Being KC registered is a peice of paper, and the only reason i want them registered is because most people who buy pups ask about it...

Haven't you sort of answered yourself in your own statement?

> my gosh, i'm really getting a digging aren't I.
>

i didn't give you a digging, sorry if you took it that way. i was offering information and advice. bear in mind the thread might be read by people out in web land.

well if she works and has won stuff and you've health tested its far more than many workers do so good for you. for some reason a lot of working breeders think that ability to work means everythings hunky dorey...

seems a good reason to breed if you want the stock. i was just asking :)

i'm not up on activities but i'm pretty sure you can register non kc (sure i saw rescue agility at crufts). Moonmaiden might be worth messaging, she did/does obedience. claireys does caniX but don't know if that goes on the register. a few of the guys do agility if you use the search facillity.

hth

You came on to ask a simple question - and you have been given the simple answer - no your bitch CANNOT be registered by the KC on anything other than the activity list.   And any puppies born to these two will not be eligible for KC registration either.

It matters not one bit if you have been to Crufts twice for agility - my oldest boy has been to Crufts 4 times - but it didn't make him a winner in any judges' eyes - although in our eyes he is wonderful.   And I certainly haven't bred from him just because he has qualified for Crufts!

Sorry if you don't like the answers ......but you want a straight answer and you've got it.     

yes and a totally unecessary yes KC papers help mine are registered but more importantly is someone who gives a toss about their dogs welfare and clearly you do.
Good Luck

Thank you Astarte.

To above -I want to have them KC registered because a lot of people seem to feel "safe" in knowing that a dog is KC reg these days.
I'm personally not too sure why, as i feel there are more important factors to a dogs history and health than a peice of paper, but i can understand where people are coming from. Hence the reason for wanting the litter registered under KC or at least KC activity register.

But i have no idea how to go about doing this.

She is already registered on the KC activity register and the stud is fully KC registered.  So not sure where i go from here with regards to registering the actual litter?

one of the guys involved in activities would be able to say. i would think that each pup might have to get registered as it takes part in an activity though.

im not really sure you can, try emailing or phoning Kc to ask, maybe should of looked into it before mating :)

Lokismum - I am certianly not breeding because she has been to crufts... thats an extra bonus...I have already said she is a working dog.  Furthermore that i will be keeping 3 pups from the litter to go on to be working dogs.

I have done every health check under the sun, aswell as going on to make sure these pups in the future go to either working homes or other types of active homes.  She is a working bitch who does the work she was born to do....After having paid hundreds to get all her health checks done...I'm not going to make a profit, infact, the OPPOSITE!... seriously, what better start could these pups have gotten...What DIFFERENCE would it make if the bitch had been KC reg??? please tell me, i'd be interested to know what difference it would make to these pups lives??     Because these pups will be working lines, they certianly won't be suited to pet homes or show careers!  So the KC registration is only for the ease of anyone who wishes to compete in agility or flyball etc... and at the end of the day, this can all be done under the activity register, hence why i'm asking about whether a litter could also be registered under Activity register.

YOU CANNOT REGISTER THIS LITTER ON THE BREED REGISTER WITH THE KENNEL CLUB.    I suggest that you telephone them tomorrow and see if you can register the puppies on the activity register.

See http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/1251

However, be aware that you would not be able to advertise your puppies as "KC registered" because prospective owners would expect them to be registered on the Breed Register.

You have already said twice i cannot register the litter with the KC and i took note of it the first time.  No need for block caps.
Again, i already told you that KC registration does not concern me one single bit, but i am doing this for other future potential owners, because i want them to be happy with their pup and if KC registration makes them happy, then thats fine with me.  Soley KC activity registration is also fine with me.

Younglin, your possibly asking the wrong sort of questions for this board.  Most of us here show dogs within conformation although some do do other activities aswell, it's normally then with a pedigree dog.  Maybe you could ask on an agility forum how people go about this as I know people within agility/obedience etc do cross breed matings of different breeds and breed non reg bitches because it's the health/ temprement/ conformation of agility of the dog rather then health/temprement/conformation for beauty we do for the show ring. :)

Also next time remeber to lay out ALL the reasons for breeding if you ask anything here in the initial post as we do get alot of "just pet" people wanting to breed "just because" rather then try and produce champions weather it be in the ring, the feild, agility, obedience...flyball??? (Do you get Ch flyball dogs???)  anyway just a little "heads up" :)

Activities register form

Sorry thought I might stick my oar in on this debate, Can quite understand that for you and your working dogs the KC reg is just another piece of paper.  But supposing one of your pups changed hands a couple of years down the line there would be nothing to say what his breeding was or what working stock he came from,  were you able to KC reg them (which you aren't) any one taking on one of these pups in the future, providing the KC papers went with him, would be able to trace his lineage back as far as they wanted to, and have absolute confirmation that they came from good working stock. It also helps if any unexpected health issues crop up, often such things can be traced back to a long forgotten ancester, not something you could do without the KC breed pedigree papers.
Hope all that makes sense.   Good luck with your litter.  Will you train all three pups together or individually? Or do the older ones help.

Minimom, if someone is intrested in the health and well being and parentage they will have a pedigree.  Ok it's not official like those on the breed register but surely you don't expect all agility dogs to be pedigree's on the KC breed register do you?  Also anyone breeding agility and working dogs can't afford a blind dog with HD...Wouldn't be much use now would it!

Read all post carefully and it appears to me all the right things are being done but this is where conformation people are divided from those who compete in agility or work their dogs on a daily basis on a working farm. :)

Just an idea, but I'm not sure - can you register them with the ISDS?

Their rules say that you must be a member of the ISDS, and also the dogs must be on the ISDS register or other recognised register, but I really know no more than that

Jo

You asked a question and got the correct answer. Did you only want the answer you wanted to hear??

If you already accept people prefer KC documents and accept it may put them off buying then what do you want us to say.

because KC papers are the be all and end all? They mean the dog is purebreed

not necessarily

> Being KC registered is a peice of paper, and the only reason i want them registered is because most people who buy pups ask about it...

I'm not going to comment on the rights and wrongs of breeding non-registered dogs - it would seem yours are competition dogs that have been health tested and this is not unusual, however, I think your reasons for wanting to register them are misguided and may be open to misrepresentation.  Yes, most people do ask a bout KC registration, however, what they are referring to is the 'breed register' registration, not the 'activity register' registration.  Anyone can register on the activity register - it does not have to be done by the breeder and provided you explain this to them, they can go away and register them themselves.  The breed register registration can only be done by the breeder of KC registered purebred dogs. 

I would simply explain that they cannot be kc registered on the 'breed register' but they can register them themselves on the 'activity register' if they want to compete in agility/working trials/obedience etc.  Anything more than this could leave you open to claims of fraud or misrepresentation.

KC is not the be all and end all but it does enable you to do a lot more activities with a dog if they are KC registered rather than being on the working register.

Unfortunately people have been fooled in the past when they have been given "registration papers" that they are KC registered and that they could enter all of the KC events, sadly of course this is not so.

If you are to breed from the dogs then you need to let all new owners to be know that they are not KC registered so they are unable to enter certain events.

Just pointing out the advantages for being KC breed registered was it not clear enough.

YES MY DOG IS ISDS REGISTERED
So my pups linage could be traced back yes.  But I have came accross a LOT of people who don't have a clue what ISDS is (mostly people who know nothing about working dogs), but who recognise KC. THAT is my reason for asking about a KC registration.

I have never came to a forum so judgemental in all my life.

From the comments i have read here, you lot seem to rip anyone to shreds who breeds from a non KC bitch.  Regardless of whether that bitch has had health tests, or her history in work or any other registration.  The only thing that seems important to most people here is a peice of paper from the KC....

I came here looking for a few answers and have ended up having to defend myself due to peoples judgemental attitudes, and in one or two cases, very rude attitudes.

Thank you to the few people who have been of help.  I appreciate it!

> YES MY DOG IS ISDS REGISTERED
>

I would take an ISDS registered working dogs papers anytime.  If the majority of your pups will be going to working homes stick with ISDS and then if and when someone wants to take part in KC events ie:- agility or obedience then they can register the individual dog with the activity register.

Hope this helps.

aswell as going on to make sure these pups in the future go to either working homes or other types of active homes

But I have came accross a LOT of people who don't have a clue what ISDS is (mostly people who know nothing about working dogs),

these two statements say it all in my opinion

Yeah, active homes meaning agility, flyball etc etc..

I know quite a few people through doing agility, who don't have a clue what ISDS Registration is...But pan everything on a KC paper...

Why do you try to make an argument out of what i say?..

im just bringing to yours and everyone elses attention that in one post you say one thing and in another something entirely different

i dont don't work my dogs or do agility or flyball but i know what an ISDS registration

I have not said anything different. I'm merely explaining what i meant.  If your don't understand what i'm trying to get across, then either ask me what i'm meaning or don't bother replying.  Certianly no need to be rude.  This is forums, its hard to say what you mean with a keyboard at times!  It's YOU who is taking it completely out of context, and then trying to make an argument out of it all.  Please go away if you have nothing constructive to add apart from criticism.

" i dont don't work my dogs or do agility or flyball but i know what an ISDS registration "

Soo???..... Does that mean the entire population knows what an ISDS is because you do?
Please stop being so childish.

It's a tricky situation. Most buyers haven't heard about the KC Activities register and its limitations - they think that 'KC Registration' means they can show the dog at Crufts. So if you register them on the activities register you'd have to make it very clear to your buyers that this isn't the case or you might find yourself being sued for misrepresenting the pups - the last thing you want or need.

I think if it was me I'd not register them at all, but give a written pedigree with my details on it and a signed letter so that they could themselves register on the activities register at a later date if they wanted to. Someone earlier in the thread posted the link to the form, so you could even download copies to give to the new owner.

younglin
You are quite right about ISDS, people ask what it means that my dog is dual registered.

When I say that he's ISDS and KC, I'm asked what ISDS is.

I PM'd you yesterday with some help.

Jean

well at first it seemed to me that you are making out that your pups are going to working/active homes, then as the topic continues it would seem as if they will be going to pet homes due to various things you say, you say people know nothing about ISDS registrations but they do know about KC registrations, fair enough, but your puppies will not be KC registered due to the bitch not being KC registered but they can be activity registered which the majority of people know nothng about and is an entirely different thing to KC registration

It might be an entirely different thing to you... but to me, it seems relatively similar, just in a Non-Official manner.
The pups registered on the KC Activity register can go on to compete in Flyball and agility.......
That was the only thing i wanted.... So KC or non KC... the activity register seems perfect for the pups under the kennel club.

These pusp would NEVER be sold to a normal pet home.  Coming from two working & trialing parents they would never be suited a to an 'everyday routine'.  If i ever said pet home on a previous post, i was meaning a pet home in the manner of flyball or agility.  Working homes will be the priority for these pups, but that isn't always possible so the next stage would be agility or flyball homes..

You seem to be trying to nitpik at my posts and make it look like i'm trying to say contradicting things.  I have told you all the facts and laid them out bare.  If a few of my posts have seemed a bit mixed up, its because i am not good with technology or explaining myself on an online forum.  But i'd prefer people not to lash out at my posts attempting to create an argument from them, that seems just plain out of order.

As this thread has become unnecessarily argumentative, I'm closing it. However younglin may be interested in the following information which may solve her problem:

A dog registered with the ISDS is eligible for KC registration so you could register your bitch with the KC which will then allow you to register her litter (thankyou to Satincollie for the info)

Here is the link to the relevant KC form : http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/download/381/form9.pdf