THE DOG WHISPERER, he makes it look so easy , and maybe it is to some but it is taking me a while six months to be precise, then i had to go working away from home due to redundancy which meant my wife took over his day to day routine , so when i got home she had undone all the work i had put in and our staffy kane  would hardly bother with me cus she had spoilt him so much !!! back to square one , anyway hes allmost back on track but without discipline hes quite an unruly dog . anyone els wish they had the whisperer to take over ?

If you mean CM, then no. His TV programmes have caused too many idiots to copy what they think they see (without the hours and hours of necessary preceding work which is never shown) and mess up their dogs.

No, I wish he was banned from TV. He'd never be allowed inside my house or anywhere near my dogs.  I notice the American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior has written a letter of complaint to Merial for using Cesar Millan  in a series of adverts for Frontline and similar:
http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonline/images/stories/Current_Events/merialletter6-10.pdf

AVSAB Letter to Merial
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Today at 9:59am
Dear Dr. Line,

The executive board of the American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior is deeply troubled to learn that Merial, a leader in the veterinary healthcare industry, is using Cesar Millan in a promotional campaign for Heartgard and Frontline. We are even more disturbed to find that Merial is cross-promoting Mr. Millan's behavior video as part of this campaign. Merial's executives may not be aware of the fact that the American College of Veterinary Behaviorists (ACVB), the American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior (AVSAB) and the Society of Veterinary Behavior Technicians (SVBT) have uniformly spoken out against the punishment-based techniques employed by Mr. Millan on his television show "The Dog Whisperer."

At best, the show is entertaining but misleading to pet owners. At worst, Mr. Millan's techniques and misinformation have contributed to increased aggression and anxiety or resulted in physical injury to the pet and/or pet owner. As practicing veterinarians, we all unfortunately have seen many cases of the latter.  Merial claims to "enhance the health, well-being, and performance of animals." The use of Mr. Millan as part of an advertising campaign speaks otherwise.

In these difficult economic times, it may be understandable that Merial would want to use a "celebrity" to advertise its products in a direct-to-consumer fashion. However, had Merial taken the time to investigate, it would have found that Mr. Millan's philosophy runs counter to the standard-of-care promoted by veterinary behaviorists and taught at veterinary schools.

We are deeply saddened that Merial's executives are not more supportive of the veterinary behavior community and its efforts to promote knowledgeable, scientifically-based, humane training methods. We remain concerned that your company's support of Mr. Millan's controversial training methods through the distribution of his video and financial support of his show will contribute to the number of difficult dogs and injured owners that we have to eventually console, counsel, and reeducate. Perhaps Merial would like to support our efforts to counteract the negative impact of this unfortunate marketing choice that may ultimately serve to alienate educated veterinarians, dog trainers, and owners alike.

Sincerely,

E. Kathryn Meyer, VMD (President)
John Ciribassi, DVM, DACVB (Immediate Past President)
Karen Sueda, DVM, DACVB (President Elect)
Kari Krause, DVM
Kelly Morgan, DVM
Valli Parthasarathy, PhD, DVM
Sophia Yin, PhD, DVM
Laurie Bergman, VMD, DACVB

Gosh no, theres no way i'd let him within a mile of my dogs, he's far too harsh!

truthfully i agree with some of his ethics, those being first and foremost you must excercise your dog and dont mummy the dog with regards to treating them as babies and see them as dogs... BUT i dont agre with his actual training methods

This is a wind up right???

Had you recommended Ian Dunbar, I would consider that you trained your dog well. 

Your poor, poor unfortunate Staffy is the loser here.

> His TV programmes have caused too many idiots to copy what they think they see (without the hours and hours of necessary preceding work which is never shown

jg this could perhaps read a touch harshly to a new poster who maybe doesn't know about the downside to mr milan...explaining why cm is rubbish is perhaps better in this case? :)

to the op, many posters on this forum don't like the so called dog whisperer because of the methods he uses. rather than whispering-which suggests a gentle action- he actually uses very violent methods (electric shock collars, 'alpha rolls' etc) to suppress behaviours rather than uses positive methods to use them. dogs that are 'cured' by him are more often scared into submission- you love your dog so would you prefer he was so scared he behaves or behaved for love of you and enjoyment in what he's doing?

what is actually the problem with your staffs behaviour if you don't mind me asking? perhaps we could make some suggestions

>jg this could perhaps read a touch harshly to a new poster who maybe doesn't know about the downside to mr milan

Harsh? Maybe, but it's nothing personal to the OP - I include a friend of mine as one of the idiots who believed that CM was good, and copied what he saw on the TV. We ended up having to put his dog to sleep because she got so confused she started biting people.

people might take being called an idiot pretty personally though :)

> I include a friend of mine as one of the idiots who believed that CM was good, and copied what he saw on the TV. We ended up having to put his dog to sleep because she got so confused she started biting people.

poor dog.

i agree with you, he's an awful 'trainer', just saying you can catch more bee's with honey...

>just saying you can catch more bee's with honey...

I tried the 'softly softly' approach when advising my friend. It didn't work - now I just say it how it is, before another dog has to die.

> tried the 'softly softly' approach when advising my friend. It didn't work - now I just say it how it is, before another dog has to die.

which is a fair point, but a lot of the time new posters get scared off when we all get a bit, shalol we say passionate :), about an issue. these are posters who could be talked round- look at winters thread about breeding again, shes now having her girl spayed!

i'm not saying softly softly, but suggesting someones an idiot is a bit full on when you don;t know them. look at the number of folk taken in by cesar...

>look at the number of folk taken in by cesar...

Yup - including the representative from the Dog's Trust who I got talking to at my local Morrisons - almost bit my tongue off that day, such ignorance in a Yellow T-Shirt wearing member of the DT was hard to take :( :( :(  I had to walk away for my own sanity - and to save my tongue

You know where i live its a working area so to speak and we have people coming and going all the time. There are certain people who my boy doesn't like and i feel with good reason. He won't go near them. Also to note i don't like these people either, rather rude and aggressive in nature.
I caught one of these men with a large stick going at my boy, i was livid. He said that i need to train my boy like CM, well all i can say is that what he was doing was winding my boy up even more. I don't allow my boy anywhere near him now due to this thoughts. He doesn't own a dog and has no idea about dog training.

Why do OP think that they can train your dog in front of you???

Onto a slightly different part, my boy eats rabbit and sheep poo. I don't have a problem with it but my friend keeps telling him off when we are out walking, i keep saying leave him i allow him too. What is up with people he's not doing any harm and i think its normal behaviour.

I agree with the comments against Cesar Milan; there are many things he does wrong including not getting dogs vet checked apparently - this is very important as some behaviour problems can be due to a medical problem the owner is not aware of and that can only be found via blood or other tests.

THE DOG WHISPERER, he makes it look so easy ,

That's tv for you though ;)
It's made to look as if it's all fixed in a few moments...it's not good really as owners expect it after watching it, understandably. I do wish the programmes could be more realistic.


and maybe it is to some but it is taking me a while six months to be precise,

Do you mean to solve a particular problem or to get your staffie generally obedient/liveable with? :)


then i had to go working away from home due to redundancy which meant my wife took over his day to day routine , so when i got home she had undone all the work i had put in and our staffy kane  would hardly bother with me cus she had spoilt him so much !!!

Kane's reactions may not have been due to being "spoilt" but for many reasons including the fact that he simply got used to your wife giving him food, exercise, etc and not yourself :)  There's a study out which shows that being "spoilt" doesn't affect dogs in a negative manner (by this they mean, its ok to let dogs on furniture etc as long as there is no problem with obedience in the first place).

back to square one , anyway hes allmost back on track but without discipline hes quite an unruly dog . anyone els wish they had the whisperer to take over ?

No he's not for me :)
I know of dogs like Jeangenie who ended up being pts due to owners following CMs more extreme methods including pinning etc.
The dogs became fearful and defensive.
It ruined the relationship between dog and owner.

Can I ask which of CMs methods you use and why you think it helps? Staffies tend to be very active dogs anyway so you do want them able to show their innate spirit and enjoyment of life :)

Lindsay

Hardly ever watch his programme, but watched some of it the other day where he kept giving a poor dog a back clip with his foot all the time and it wasn't exactly a soft kick either.  Sorry but there's no way that I would use any of his methods.

Sad to see there is a member on here looking to buy one of CM's collars -those too are designed to hurt, which is why they work. At the beginning of the year I was reading a Swedish (pet) dog magazine a friend sent me, and there were several pages in that explaining how people should avoid the CM methods and also how bad the collars are.

i was only using the dog whisperer as a for instance cus he makes it look easy. i watch him and have taken pointers about the sychology of how humans can treat a dog in human ways which dont work. personally i am using ideas from the dog listener book by jan fennel which are working very well , kane is still only a puppy we think a little over a year old and came from a family who hardly did anything with him training wise . we love and spoil him with beach walks/runs etc and would never dream of using collar shocks etc we just want him to behave a little better, after training he gets rewarded with a favourite toy or bone. i appreciate i may have given the wrong impression , it had been a long day when i posted and never expected a reaction that i got ! but it goes to show how passionate people are here about there dogs !  thanks for all replies.

Jan Fennell has a Degree in Human Pyschology(or similar)that she applies to dogs. She also applies the now debunked dominance theory based on captive artifical wolf packs.Yet another"celeb""beaviourizt, who would never be allowed within a mile of any of my dogs

>THE DOG WHISPERER, he makes it look so easy ,

>That's tv for you though ;-)
>It's made to look as if it's all fixed in a few moments...it's not good really as owners expect it after watching it, >understandably

I wonder if JP actually believes that their home can be transformed completely in an hour - as apparently they do on 60 minute makeover ?  :-D   or do they realise that it's an impossible task?   and if so why can't they apply the same thinking to CMs show?

> I wonder if JP actually believes that their home can be transformed completely in an hour - as apparently they do on 60 minute makeover

LOL what the program doesn't show is emptying the rooms. doing the prep work etc The actual work to do the repainting etc does only take an hour(they once didn't finish a bathroom tiling) & they do have 15 + people working on the site !

anyone els wish they had the whisperer to take over ?

Not really, in fact, I wouldn't let him within a mile of my dogs...

> anyone els wish they had the whisperer to take over ?
>
> Not really, in fact, I wouldn't let him within a mile of my dogs...

Same here, an unspoiled, untrained dog is far less dangerous and unpredictable than a traumatised one ;)

>> I wonder if JP actually believes that their home can be transformed completely in an hour - as apparently they do on 60 minute makeover
> LOL what the program doesn't show is emptying the rooms. doing the prep work etc The actual work to do the repainting etc does only take an hour(they once didn't finish a bathroom tiling) & they do have 15 + people working on the site !

LOL

That's my point - the hard work is never seen - same with dog training.   All the hard work has to be in place for training to work - there aren't any shortcuts!

Same here, an unspoiled, untrained dog is far less dangerous and unpredictable than a traumatised one 

Very well said!

jan fennels another who, as moonmaiden says, is perhaps a little behind things.

do you take kane to a training class? at around 1 he's still very much a puppy.

ive been made redundant so cant afford the luxury of training classes !

i'm sorry to hear that, maybe see if you can look at the other trainers people have mentioned.

> ive been made redundant so cant afford the luxury of training classes !

It's a dificult one as you obviously want to do the best for your dog - good on you :)

TV makes all sorts of things look easy (have you ever tried following a TV recipe??!!) so I can see why sometimes looking at dog TV makes your own issues seem more difficult by comparison.  There aren't any shortcuts, although there are some exceptionally bright dogs who can learn quite difficult things very quickly.  Do watch the programmes, and read the books, observe other dog owners, ask for advice and try stuff out for yourself.  If you know what you want to teach there is a lot of info available online - just remember, as with most things in life, to try and sort the good from the bad.  A lot of people on here don't like CM but it's worth letting them tell you WHY and asking for their opinion on good trainers/techniques to follow.

I've had great success with my youngest with clicker training, however it's not an easy one to master without a class or a live trainer to follow, as the timing is so important.  I'm not sure you can easily learn this from a book but the book is still a good read and explains the technique very well.  (See Karen Pryor)

It may also be worth downloading the sheets from the KC for their Good Citizens Scheme.  There are some good dog facts on there and you can see what is required to pass the test.  If you look around locally you may find an opportunity to take the bronze test without attending the course too.

The basics on these course are a good place to start and a reliable sit, wait, down, off, on your bed, leave it, watch me (all taught on the Bronze, Silver & Gold courses) are a great way to get a well mannered dog.  There are many problem situations that can be overcome by using a selection of these simple commands.  Walking to heel is another critical element that can keep your dog safe and out of trouble when walking in public places.

As I put my tin hat on I can say I wholeheartedly agree with CM when he calls for exercise, discipline and affection.  Regular exercise, clear boundaries/rules, and good care are the elements that get the greatest success for the owner.  It's a shame that those simple messages get lost in the more sensational nonsense and harsh methods he sometimes employs. 

Staffylover007 - if you want some more advice about training exercises you can do or problems you are having it might be easier to start a new thread for some specifics :)

hi staffylover007, I am not all that fussed about any of the tv trainers but did buy CM's book and was quite impressed by it.  What I liked was that he emphasised exercise and training and affection without affection being at the top. 

As for the cost of training classes I haven't found them to be expensive although if you have been made redundant I am aware that every penny counts.  the class I go to costs £1.50 per week and the other one I was going to was £3 per week.  It might be worth going for a couple of weeks and then putting into practice what you learnt at home.

FWIW I found my staffy a bit of a nightmare to train as when she was a pup she had an incredibly short attention span and couldn't sit still - it was like she had puppy ADHD! :)  My current young one is a rott who has been a total pushover to train and is so biddable in comparison to the staff.  Keep up the good work and do the breed proud :)

> costs £1.50 per week

same here, i go to a local class who are run by the local council, they have a qualified dog trainer, and they teach reward based learning, from puppy classes to advanced training.

So sorry to hear you've been made redundant - as others have said, every penny counts.
However, if you are concerned at all with any aspect of  your dog's behaviour, it may be worth either investing in a good "general" book or else a one to one session with a dog trainer (may be around £15 for an hour but it does depend a lot - that is cheap ..)

I'd suggest: www.apdt.co.uk for a reputable trainer who may do one to one's near to you,
and

100 ways to train your dog by Sarah Fisher and Marie Miller :)
(do check out out first though to see if you like the format etc).

Also this is a great site for tips:

http://www.dog-secrets.co.uk/table/behaviour-training/
with some just excellent articles.
Also Paul Owen who has a book also called The Dog Whisperer I believe, similar anyway - but he's nothing like CM <g>

Good luck!

Lindsay
x

> i go to a local class who are run by the local council

I think that if you can find classes run by the local council you can usually get them cheaper or even free if you are unemployed. Might be worth enquiring :)

> costs £1.50 per week

Really?? The cheapest I could find around here was £55 every 6 weeks, 50 minutes a week! She is fantastic but £1.50?? thats crazy, it costs me more than that to get to the class lol

>ive been made redundant so cant afford the luxury of training classes

Sorry to hear that. The classes I used to go to were £5.00 for a good hour and the rest I did at home, practicing what we'd been shown.

I don't like Mr Milan and having trained my dogs to obedience, heelwork to music and agility I know it can take a while to get results.  Most TV shows short cut you to the bits that look good or bad.  Still they are interesting to watch, with a pinch of salt. There a lots of books out there and you can join the library for small fee or even charity shops have various dog books that are useful and cheap. The internet itself is a huge resource too.

My mum thinks Milan is brilliant (yuk) and she hasn't got a dog at all, we agree to disagree on that point lol!

I see a few people use his methods on our walks, sometimes i hear owners going ssssht to there dogs.

I've seen some of my customers going sssht to their dogs when they pick them up as well,several have commented on how marvellous they think CM is as well.Who knows how many people are alpha rolling their dogs regularly . I don't think the GP can be totally blamed for copying what they see on tv,they must think this is how the professionals do it.They have no idea that he has actually had no formal training and how dangerous his methods are(and how there are much more humane and effective methods out there) which I think is scary.

I don't think the GP can be totally blamed for copying what they see on tv,they must think this is how the professionals do it.

I think a lot of dog owners/GP actually don't realise that there is more than one way of dog training. They just think that training a dog is training a dog, not that there are different ways of approaching it...

Vera

I think this is all a bit too harsh against CM; I would like to point i am not a blind fan and find the alpha roll very threatening and would never use it. I have by all means not watched every episode, but made it a point to watch season 1 and then season 4 to see what the fuss was all about...

I think in the first episodes there was a bit too cockiness, but later episodes seemed a bit more realistic, questions about vet checks to rule out extreme behaviors where asked, warnings not to try things at home where always displayed, etc.

In many occasions cesar uses his dogs to rehabilitate dogs, and dogs are the best dogs teachers. He seems to intervene only if one of his dogs doesn't display the correct behavior and would make it unsuitable to the teaching. He shows set backs and that it often takes months to rehabilitate a dog.

I am a fan of positive trainings and this is how I am turning my rescue dog around. To say that CM doesn't use any positive training is just wrong as I have seen he does, even food treats. he doesn't call dogs by name and what is the difference with a positivetrainer saying only use the name as a good thing??? There are good tips to be picked on his show, but by all means if you intend to train your dog without a professional then you need to find out what works for you dog and need to be informed about different methods.

Whoever I know that only watches the dog whisperer and thinks is the bible without researching properly sure gets a scolding from me! From that to put somebody down as rubbish only because he is hugely popular, OHH huge difference!

In so many respects CM is not rubbish, other things he does I don't agree so I choose to ignore them. The warnings are there if people are so ignorant to choose to ignore them and think training a dog takes a few minutes once then who are the fools? They are the ones to be criticized and perhaps should never own a dog that could be a hazard.

In regards to the OP, as a fellow staffie I sympathize as I recognize the importance of constant training with you dog! Don't take the dominance too literally as dogs thrive on pleasing you. If you satisfy that natural drive and their even more natural pray drive and incorporate that in your training you will have a very happy dog.

and in regards to the "ssssht". It seems to have no effect on my dog, but then again I spit if I try so obv doing it wrong.. My point is, that noise is meant to re-grab the attention of the dog. It's used to avoid using the word "NO" or even worse his name associated with a negative or a correction! So what is so wrong with that?
I say "hey!". Exactly the same thing, you lot use something else for sure, but because it's a CM method you seem to love to bash it! That show has gotten too big for his boots unfortunately and many people use it as the bible of training, many of you have had their dogs for a long time and you forgot how hard it was when you didn't know anything on the subject!

I think it is more the prong collars, illusion collars, choke collars,  kicking and dominance theory that people object to, you can't deny that he does it becuase its there in black and white on his shows. I have no problem with his ideas about exercise and stimulation. The noise doesn't work for my dogs either, but then i would try to avoid anything like that if possible and try to set the dog up to succeed rather than need to say no anyway!
IMO he puts himself and others in some very dangerous situations, a muzzle is so easy to use for safety of others and yet he very rarely does (I'm not sure if i've ever seen him do so). That to me is highly irresponsible.

This is a good article that explains what people often object to, and answers the fans questions:

http://www.4pawsu.com/cesarfans.htm

Dog whisperer more harmful than helpful, American Humane association:

http://www.americanhumane.org/about-us/newsroom/news-releases/06-dog-whisperer.html

http://www.stevedalepetworld.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=203&Itemid=71

http://www.marinij.com/homeandgarden/ci_4720342

Éxperts question CMs approach:

http://www.stevedalepetworld.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=204&Itemid=71

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/10/15/CMGPHL9D1N1.DTL

"Dr. Patricia McConnell, author of "For the Love of a Dog: Understanding Emotion in Your Best Friend" and the animal behaviorist on Animal Planet's "Petline," goes as far as to say that Millan has put dog training back 20 years."

http://www.esquire.com/features/ESQ1006-ESQ100_20-21.FINAL.rev_1

""The cause of most behavioral problems is miscommunication and not dominance issues," says Patricia McConnell, Ph.D., associate professor of zoology at the University of Wisconsin and author of For the Love of a Dog: Understanding Emotion in You and Your Best Friend. Either dogs don't know what their owners want, she says, or we inadvertently have taught them to do the wrong thing. "Most behavioral problems can be solved by owners learning how to teach a dog what it is they want, by using the science of how animals learn."

Yet the showmanship continues. On Millan's Dog Whisperer, he goes house to bad-dog house, jerking leashes, shaking scruffs of necks, and throwing the occasional kick--in a wolfman-to-wolfpack fashion, except that the dogs aren't truly fooled. They don't believe he's a dog. What's worse, says Janis Bradley, a San Francisco trainer and author of the helpfully titled Dogs Bite, the dogs often fall into a helpless state Millan calls "calm submission," but what trained behaviorists see as possible chronic stress or "shutdown," which can lead to a dog eventually fighting back."

http://www.esquire.com/features/ESQ1006-ESQ100_20-21.FINAL.rev_1#ixzz0KmLXLXU1&D

There's some really good links there,Lindsay-that 4Paws University website is brilliant.

Thanks, it's great isn't it!