Hi, just wondering if you could give your opinions on this problem my best friend has.
She has three young children and has been married over 10 years.

Like any relationship they have had their ups and downs, but couple of years (I will try and cut this story as short as I can!) my friend found by accident a few text messages on her husbands mobile to a women, well she asked me round as she was so upset as the texts seem to be quite fliry ones, so we called the number, it turned out to be her husbands ex from years ago, very friendly women, told my friend that my friends hubby had met up with her a few times during the day and had arrange to go out one evening! She gave the impression that she had asked after the rest of the family knowing he was married, but said nothing had happened apart from spending a lunch hour together, and he had cancelled the evening meet up anyway! grrrrrrrrr!
So my friend questioned her husband, he cried and told her that he did not know what he was doing and that he would never do it again and nothing happened! So my friend has been trying to forgive him for the last couple of years, feeling very down about their relationship.
Well the other day she called me to tell me she had found some emails on their PC to ANOTHER ex girlfriend who lives in Europe, again very flirty messages i.e. wishinghe was with her, his company has a base out near her,,,,etc,,,,,,,

So now she is back in the dumps again, feeling very depressed and not being able to really believe anything her husband says to her.
She did also find a picture and number of another women, but she is not sure if it is work related, but when she asked him whos number it was he said he did not know!!

I have run out of advice for her, I really want to help her but really do not know what to suggest, she says he tells her he loves her everyday, and behaves as though nothing is wrong, but she is not very confortable and does not know whether to leave him, trust him or anything. :(
any experience/advice I could pass on?? :)

Having been married to an X pat having two children with him and finding him having an affair with a small Tai lady I kicked him out. I need to be able to trust my partner with no trust I had no marriage.
Now in a marriage for the past 18 years, he has been an excellent father to my (now) 22 & 24 year old sons. I made the right decision. But it is not easy, leaving my son's father was hard.

Im not giving advice just sharing my experiance.

How can he love her?The poor woman.It must be so hard to face facts and plan for a future that is so different from the one you'd imagined.She really does need to see a solicitor,at the very least seek advice from the citizen's advice bureau.She'll never trust him now,and she'll be in knots every time he's not in the same room,wondering if he's getting in touch with other women.A relationship is nothing without trust.If she decides to put him out of the house she's bound to waver,but she has her friends,and hopefully family to support her,and that's a big thing.Tell her to look around at all the people this has happened to who have made a new life for themselves which is fulfilling and happy.She will get over it,and whether she meets someone else or not,she can hold her head up and say she did the right thing.The children will be fine,as long as they're not brought into the whys and wherefors of the trouble between their parents.Keep it simple for them and underline how much both parents love the children,it's just that dad won't be living at their house anymore,but they'll still see him lots.Good luck to her,and you sound like a lovely friend.

I forgot to add, He normally has a heart of gold, will take her anywhere she needs to go etc, but he can also be very grumpy sod, normally with the children.
She asked him about the emails to the ex in Europe and he said AGAIN, I dont know what I was thinking, and would never do it again, and because as far as she knows nothing has actually happened on both occasions, she still feels hurt.

well i wouldnt trust him if it was me and i can understand how upset your friend is its so hurtfull when this happens and of course you want to belive your partner that his telling you the truth but at the end of the day lets face it very few men will stand up and say that , yes they  have been having an affair, as this could mean the end of their marriage and maybe the affairs just a fling,
so imo most men will lie thu their teeth to stop the women finding out,
my best mate caught her hubby in bed with the women next door and even he tried to say a week later after she kick him out that nothing was going on Dohhhhh, hello like she didnt just actully catch him at it,

what your friend needs to think about is does she really want to end her marriage in the first place as she does have 3 young children so for her to up and leave or to kick him out may be harder for her to do in reality,
sometimes women turn a blind eye on things for the sake of not upsetting the family but then this just leaves your friend upset and hurt, 

women up the road has stayed with her husband after his affair as she only has 8 years left on their morgage and cant her kids are grown but she couldnt manage paying it without him so she suffers in silence , not a way to live i know but its the only way she feels she can cope,

There's not really any advice to give, it's such a personal choice. I know I would leave him, but I could never stay with someone I didn't trust.  All you can do is be a supportive friend what ever her decision.

A friend of mine stays with her husband despite his repeated infidelities. She knows what he is up to but sees it as the pay off for the life she wants. She says she isn't unhappy, he provides well and is great with the kids, she thinks their relationship is fine and the affairs are a small thing.  I don't personally understand, but it is her choice to make, and if it ever changes, I shall be here, non-judgmental and with a strong shoulder to cry on.
I hope your friend makes the right choice for her, and her children. Having a friend around who cares will help what ever she chooses.

your poor friend :(

she can only do what feels like the right thing. the automatic feeling is leave him at once at the smallest hint of infidelity but its so much more complex in the real world.

its possible he felt he was only flirting- though his reaction suggests otherwise :(

maybe your friend could try being away for a while? (ackward with the kids though) this might help in two ways, she could get some perspective on the situation and see how she does herself and he is left without her- it may scare him into bucking up his ideas.

its interesting that both women appear to be exes, exes from how long ago? perhaps there is some trying to recapture youth or something going on?

Hi and thanks everyone, this is a difficult one indeed.

The ex he met up with was from a relationship about 15 years ago I think, and the Europe one is longer ago then that. :(

I am meeting up with her in a while, she puts on a brave face but I know she is confused and hurt inside. she has close family for support, but they have said whatever she decides they will be there for her, she feels she is sitting on the fence, not knowing what to do :( I wish I could give her the answer, but as people have said, it is her decision, and we can only give experiences, or what we would do in this situation.

The kids as far as I know are non the wiser, they do not like to discuss things in front of them, which is good, but she has told me that if she did kick him out she would not be able to afford to live where she is now, and may have to go into council housing, oh what a total mix up poor girl :(

Do you think her husband really loves her or may be he's staying because he couldn't leave the kids.
It took me five years to leave my first husband and that was mainly because of the children but if things arn't right then it's better for everyone if you separate. the children will be fine as long as the parents behave correctly in front of them.
Maybe he's never been faithful and your friend only knows the half of it or maybe he just likes the attention of other women but if it were me i would ask him to leave for a couple of months and say i need time to think if i can trust him and he can take the time to think about why and what he's doing. this could be enough to shock him in to sorting himself out but seeing as he's had one chance already i wouldn't bet on it.
i think once the trust has gone it's very hard to get back, although some relationships can be stronger for it but this man has lied twice now and thats only the things we know about.
It took me a few years to trust my second husband after my first husband went of with my friend. You tend to think all men will be the same but luckily i found my soul mate and couldn't be happier 10 years on.
You just have to remember that how ever bad things are they will get better in time and i'm sure there's a man out there that wouldtreat your friend the way she should be treated.
I do hope your friend finds the courage to kick him out and start again, else she'll spend her life always wondering what he's up to but only she can make that decision when she feels ready.
This is only how i feel about it and i'm sure other people would do things differently.
  

Gemini05,

Don't take this the wrong way, but is she completely wrapped up in her children?  It's not unusual for men to feel threatened or "replaced" in their lover's eyes by their children.  It's really tough being a woman and we have to remember to spoil our men like we do our children (after all, do they really ever grow up?).  I've seen relationships break down because the woman unconsciously neglects her husband.  It could be he is just needing attention - we here it so often from women (I'm ashamed to say I'm a computer widow and can walk starkers into the OH's computer room and not get a reaction).  She needs to have a good sit down and find out if this is attention seeking behaviour before she thinks drastically about chucking him as the relationship can still be salvaged.  Like I said, it's hard being a woman.

> Don't take this the wrong way, but is she completely wrapped up in her children?  It's not unusual for men to feel threatened or "replaced" in their lover's eyes by their children.  It's really tough being a woman and we have to remember to spoil our men like we do our children (after all, do they really ever grow up?).  I've seen relationships break down because the woman unconsciously neglects her husband.  It could be he is just needing attention - we here it so often from women (I'm ashamed to say I'm a computer widow and can walk starkers into the OH's computer room and not get a reaction).  She needs to have a good sit down and find out if this is attention seeking behaviour before she thinks drastically about chucking him as the relationship can still be salvaged.  Like I said, it's hard being a woman

i agree she needs to talk to him properly about it, not just let it fritter out when he gets upset.

and what you describe is far from uncommon, a lot of people get to busy or occupied with other things to keep things going so well. you get comfy in your relationship or you get wrapped up in the kids and become 'mum' rather than you. it is a possibility.

obviously we don't know them, it could well be your geminis friends a glamour puss who arranges evenings together all the time without the kids and jumps him in the doorway each evening.  

I think that the key clue here is he is contacting his ex's, not (as far as we know) other women at work, he comes across or on the Internet, which as bad as it is I pretty much think means he has not fallen out of love with his wife and is only staying for the children, as someone new would be the obvious motivation to start afresh.

Instead this man is reaching out to his past, most probably as already said pre: children, pre: responsibility, bills, life in general, men can often act like spoilt babies, they spoil their women and make out they are happy but really they yearn to be spoilt and made a fuss of even more than us, it is just un-manly to show it in their opinion. :-)

The marriage is not lost, but he is a complete fool, a third party is needed here, it can't be put right with a long talk themselves.

A marriage guidance councillor is needed, is actually a must, if this is to ever move forward let someone else strip this down and have him admit he's a fool and sort himself out, a quick kick up the bum from his wife will cause more resentment than help.

Carrington, totally agree.

Yes Carrington I think you are right some time with a good councillor hopefully for both of them could be helpfull if they can afford it..
Everyones expectations within in a relationship are different and can change over the years. What  is put up able with for one will be unacceptable for another.
I do hope your friend finds an acceptable soloution although my feelings are that there will be no quick fix

> perhaps there is some trying to recapture youth or something going on?

I can see that happening.I wonder why he still had the exes numbers,after at least 10yrs marriage.I know that I would be deeply,deeply hurt if John had done any serious flirting with anyone,let alone someone he had history with,and i've never been the jealous type.There are some things you just don't do.He sounds a bit resentful of the children,maybe he thinks they are getting all the attention.I think that is childish in itself-he should be caring enough to know that the children have to have a lot of work put into them to bring them up well.Personally I don't really understand how he can have a heart of gold and be playing with fire like this with his wife and children's feelings.

This is an awful situation but like Carrington has said it doesn't mean the marriage is over. 

Sometimes when someone is feeling dissatisfied or frustrated they look outside the relationship to find the answers.  It maybe that he is just a rat who will just apologise for whatever he is caught out doing or it could be that he is just bored with life at the moment. 

When relationships are new they are so exciting, getting married and set up in your first home together is exciting and when the kids come along it just tops everything off.  Then the years go by, you work long hours, you pay the bills, your life revolves around the kids, everything can get so routine.

Maybe your friend needs to sit down and think about how life is for him.  Do they have quality time together as a couple?  She may well appreciate him as a provider but does he feel that he is more than that? 

Men can be very sensitive and don't always know how to talk about how they feel, it's easy for them to reach out to someone they only had exciting times with and relive the past. 

Unfortunately situations like this don't blow over by themselves they need dealing with and a few sessions with a counciller with both parties taking responsibility is really needed.

i will mention to her about councilling but i know she suggested it to him the first time and he went off on one :( i saw her this afternoon and she is so down, but she only seems to be real down when he is around which is not a good sign.  I have said to her it is going to take a long time to trust him again, and she may never really trust him again, i really dont know what i would do in her situation, and i feel this maybe the end of the relationship :(

; any experience/advice I could pass on??

Dump him pronto .

; he tells her he loves her everyday, and behaves as though nothing is wrong

Because he obviously doesn't think he is doing anything wrong . He wants to' have  his cake and eat it ' .  The lady and her kids deserve better .

My ex and I remained friends whilst my 4 children were growing up, we still have each others mobile numbers, children grown up now and we had a falling out over the wedding of daughter so not as close.  But at one point we all went on holiday together, him, his wife, me and my hubby, we had a great time! He was honestly just my friend.  Mind I've never met him secretly x

> only had exciting times with and relive the past. 
>

The mad thing is that these women are exes for a reason.Things didn't work out between them,and he seems to have forgotten that.He'll lose everything good in his life if he doesn't get a grip.
The atmosphere in their house must be terrible.

i will mention to her about councilling but i know she suggested it to him the first time and he went off on one 

Depends on how she suggested it - as a hopeful thing or as a punishment - but if he's not willing to get help and advice after he's let her and himself down in such a way, then I'd call that quite a problem.

I think your friend has to be strong - she can't trust him (does she think she will ever be able to? is he likely to do this again, and again show remorse but yet not consider anything that will really help, such as counselling??).

So I think she needs to explain to him that after this second time she is upset and can't trust him - and they need outside help to rebuild the trust. Ie relationship counselling. If he won't agree, then she needs to say to him "Ok well what do YOU suggest to rebuild my trust in you and us?" and he most likely will not be able to suggest anything, or will turn it around to be  her fault, in which case she may need to insist again they need counselling ... and if he won't comply then it may sadly be the end of the road...

Wishing her all the best,

Lindsay
x

thanks everyone for your posts, i have spoken to her this morning, they had a deep discussion last night tell the early hours, they are going to arrange councilling, and work on their relationship, but she has told him if she still does not feel she can trust him or he is stupid again, then she will end the marriage, she said she made it clear to him that this was the final chance to fix things and if she feels after a period that she cant trust him again then that will be the end, i have told her i am here for her what ever happens i do hope things turn out for the best :) and thank you all again for your posts x x

I do hope they make a real success of things now and that they have a happy life ahead of them.

didnt have time to read the whole thread but for what its worth my advise would be to cut him some slack. at the end of the day, we are all just humans, women included and sometimes we can love someone loads but still need that buzz of someone else. i suppose its like fitting in all you can before you die! doesnt mean he loves her less.