well my bitch  had a litter of 14  18th may 08 and i am debating breeding her again usual litter size is 7 at the most i want to do it for the experience  not money i am aware it costs more thn u get back if done correctly  loved every second last time but i am very worried tht mayb having a huge litter last time has weakened her uterus and i dont want to lose her she will be 4 this year we kept a dog from her last litter (he has been done) and i really loved it last time and would like honest opinoins of experienced breeders thank you

I have a bitch that has whelped 3 times.  Each time she was bred from, it was after the vet was happy for me to do so.  She has 2 pups each time, and the vet said he was happy because it's the rearing of large litters that takes it out of them.  She has had a total of 6 pups.  She will now be spayed.

After rearing a litter of 14 healthy puppies, I would have felt that your girl has done her bit.  Just my honest opinion.

I think with having such a big litter it would probably be best to give her a year out and possibly breed her next year instead.

Breeding for the experience is NEVER a reason to breed -in your breed more so than in any other breed.

I agree with Marianne. 

You shouldn't breed for the experiance, you've already had that anyway.  Did you want to rear another litter of 14 and finds home for them, especially when there are so many of your breed in rescue?

I don't understand what pleasure you get if you sleep with them for one night and then leave them?  Maybe the next litter won't be such a 'pleasure'? :(  You were VERY lucky.....

I definitely wouldn't breed from her this year.  I presume that she's had all the breeds necessary health tests?

What are you reasons for wanting to breed from her again..? 
You were very lucky with your last litter... it may not be such a pleasant experience this time..
Just because you really loved it last time, it not a good reason.. you should be thinking about your girl..
A litter size of 14 is double the average for your breed, so in real terms, she has had two litters.. and that takes a lot out of a bitch..
Unless you have a very good reason ..ie: she is superior quality to produce quality pups which add to the gene pool (obviously not, since you had the pup neutered), for the good of the future of the breed, then there is no positive reason to breed..

the thing is.. if you were sure or positive that you are doing the right thing, you would not be asking for advice.. so there must be many doubts.. and the old saying.. 'if in doubt, don't do it'

However,, if you do decide to go ahead, and personally I think you will, then wait another year.. or at the very least another season..

Oh.. and most bitches that have huge litters, 1st time.. do not go on to repeat this in future litters.. for some reason it averages out.. so you may find next litter you might have only 2 or 3 pups.. 

I agree breeding for experience alone is not enough. I think 14 pups if raised properly would be enough to put anyone off breeding again. I wouldnt breed from her again so soon and consult your vet if she is fit, because if her uterus struggled last time she may not be able to push them out leading to a c-section and possibly the loss of your bitch and her puppies, is 'really loved' doing it worth the risk. Also if she has another large litter could you sell them in this climate, especially as if she isnt in season for a few months they could be ready to go around christmas which isnt a good idea.

Louise

I cant tell you what to do, we are just suggesting you consult the vet and maybe wait until she is fully recovered. Imagine yourself having twins, your body would struggle to cope with another lot of twins a year later.

she had them over a year ago and yes i loved every second of it (i dont get how people breed for money)they wernt just left they were born and raised in my lounge and socialised with my children and visiters they had there moments dont get me wrong but it was fantastic as for the sttement about her not having a huge litter again i would be happy if she didnt thats not why i want to do it again she is in excellent shape and the vet has said she is very healthy  she gave birth to all of them except the dead one with ease and recovered very quickly and although i had welpi on hand i never needed to use it so i gave her it with her food i didnt do it blind i researched everything extensivly and i must of done something right as i never lost one the only one to die was delivered at the vets he died of neumonia (he had swallowed fluid ) i still see most of my pups we all met at a park for their birthday and they all have second to none temprements i really appreciate the honest opinions but i do find people are far to quick to judge even experienced breeders dont get everything right

My bitch recently had 11 pups, 9 survived. I've seen what it takes out of them, and am sure I will not be mating her again until I know she is completley recovered from this litter. I envisage this won't be for about 2 years.

14 is such a huge number of puppies, she did so well to feed them all last time, I just think it wouldn't hurt to wait another year before risking having a large number again... it could happen! Then you would probably feel wracked with guilt over putting your girl through what was probably an ordeal (for her) again.

I'm loving every minute of having a mad puppy household, but my girl comes first every time and I wouldn't even consider putting her through the strain again until I'm confident she's really fit and well, the trip to the vet sounds like sound advice to me.

Hi Winter88

If your prime motivation to breed your girl again is just for the experience - then my strong suggestion would be don't do it! Sorry to be so blunt, but I don't see that as a good enough reason to produce another litter of puppies. You obviously wanted one for yourself last time but this time you don't. I don't breed unless I want one for me - I find it all too emotionally draining to do it for any other reason. The responsibility of finding good homes for potentially 14 puppies is just too much (my first litter was 15 - all survived!) I wouldn't breed a litter at the moment unless there was a really, really good reason for doing it (ie contributing something useful to the breed's gene pool). There are so many dogs being handed in to rescues because people just can't afford to keep them - now is not a good time to be breeding unless you are someone with an outstanding reputation who has a long waiting list (and even those breeders are sometimes finding it difficult to home puppies :()

Just my honest opinion.

> i really appreciate the honest opinions

Which is what you will get here..

Sadly doing everything right, does not mean much.. there are many responsible breeders on this board who take great care, and huge expense doing all the recommended tests for there breed, and still lose a whole litter and/or their bitch.. we cannot forsee problems, such as eclampsia, inertia etc,

After a huge litter of 14 pups, I would be concerned about inertia in a subsequent whelping..

Have you done all your Breeds Clubs recommended health tests? 

We are not really quick to 'judge'.. people ask a question, and then are taken aback a little, when the answers are not quite what they expected.. many of us will have differing opinions.. also, different breeds may require different answers.. To take the responsibility of producing a litter, whatever the breeders reasons may be.. should never be taken lightly..

> but i do find people are far to quick to judge even experienced breeders dont get everything right

Puppy farmers and BYB's are also experienced breeders.. but few are responsible.. please don't compare the two..

If you do want an honest opinion then:

You wanted experience..well you've surely had that by now.

You added 14 new puppies to the general public pool of dogs and could potentially do the same this time.
What on earth are you going to do it a) you cant sell them all this time? b) you get some back...say 2 from 1st litter ( as juvenile delinquents) and 1 or 2 from the next one?
Can you really cope with 28 families questions and problems?
With 3 or 4 returnees tearing around your house?

Please think long and hard about the consequences of this action wont you...you may not be quite so lucky this time.

> i want to do it for the experience

Experience of what ? You have already bred one litter so you have had experience of  having a litter why do you want more experience ?

Sorry, but breeding for you to have te experience is, IMHO, totally the wrong reason. Pet animals should not be bred just to give their owners experience, there are too many kittens, puppies, rabbit kits etc being born already. I only consider breeding a litter to improve a breed & if I am in a position not only to afford to do so, but also that the puppies I breed will have forever homes & if needed I have the facilities to take back permanently each & ever one at any stage in their lives.

It goes without saying that all the dogs I have bred from have had all the available health done with normal(or better)results before being bred from.

Just for the experience why dont you contact the rspca or other organisation and ask if you can be of service in rearing any litters that have the misfortune to be born in kennels, or some pups that have been dumped at days old etc. The two hourly feeds and constant supervision, you would be doing a good deed ;-)

> Just for the experience why dont you contact the rspca or other organisation and ask if you can be of service in rearing any litters that have the misfortune to be born in kennels, or some pups that have been dumped at days old etc. The two hourly feeds and constant supervision, you would be doing a good deed ;-)

a lovely suggestion louise

I had never thought of that Louise But I do suppose "foster breeders" are needed.

>>this was her 1st litter she was in whelp 14 hours i slept in our lounge with her 1st nite and then left her to it

> the most i want to do it for the experience  not money i am aware it costs more thn u get back if done correctly 

> i am very worried tht mayb having a huge litter last time has weakened her uterus and i dont want to lose her

your experience of it was astonishingly, blessedly lucky.  You should never leave pups at a day old on there own with a bitch! i'm sorry to sound rude but what possesed you? surely before breeding your girl you read all the horror stories and wanted to ensure they didn't happen?

experience is no reason to breed- to get the experience i helped with a family litter. the experience i took from that was never without the best of reasons- its exhausting (or should be), terrifying and terrificly hard. the wonders of it are the least concern.

if you have the slightest reservation about her safety then no way. 

Well Hallelujah!!!!   No dissent among posters on this thread for once - we are all agreed IT IS NOT A GOOD IDEA FOR YOU TO BREED FROM YOUR BITCH AGAIN.

But I think that in this instance we are preaching to the converted here - the poster seems to have gone ....perhaps she doesn't like what she has been told.  But as we are all singing from the same hymn sheet, maybe this thread won't be pulled - and it will stay,locked firmly in the ether so that others might google "should I breed" - and see the general concensus is Noooooooo!

I had never thought of that Louise But I do suppose "foster breeders" are needed.

Many years ago I fostered two orphan pups for the RSPCA. It was very hard work but a valuable experience indeed!

no i havnt disapeared but thank you for suggesting that i contact the rspca i am now going to look into it as i think tht would be a better solution my girl is happy and healthy so why risk tht despite what people may say i do care and i will not breed her again if it would be dangerous wich after a chat with my vet he thinks it would be a unneccasary risk he is amazed she survived the first time so she is off to be spayed in a few weeks

i would love to do it, guaranteed it would be hard work but those weeks are crucial for a pups development and you could help it on towards a long and happy life. The rspca dont have the time to do what is needed in terms of socialisation and you never know you could end up keeping one and giving it a home for life along with your girl as a companion. :-D

i'm glad you've decided on that winter :)

i'm glad you are going to look into that.  Could you keep us updated on the progress.  It's not something I've heard about till now.

Just don't stop at the RSPCA, you could offer servics to other charites, especially smaller local ones to yourself.  Or how about breed rescues for selected breeds you want to help out?

I wish you the best of luck as it sounds like your only want to do the best for your bitch and I think after a litter of 14, like your vet said, it's an unessarcary risk.

Good for you Winter88 - what an excellent solution :) :)

And can I say what a pleasure it is that someone takes notice of really well meaning advice - even if it might not have been what you wanted to read :)

Don't forget to let us all know if you go down the "fosterer" route.  I'm sure there are quite a few of us that would love to hear the outcome.  :-)
Jean

I keep reading and re reading this but i can't see where the op said she left them after one night.

>>this was her 1st litter she was in whelp 14 hours i slept in our lounge with her 1st nite and then left her to it

I cant find this bit either now but it was there as i read it earlier, but it has been qouted by someone else

Hope that helps :)

it was aid on a different thread :)

> I keep reading and re reading this but i can't see where the op said she left them after one night.

mahonc, yes I got a bit lost too but it's on another another thread about leaving a litter alone.  winter88's post:

>i have a bitch she had a litter of 14 12 were very healthy and survived (1 still born 1 born at vets died at 7 days)  (small bitch) this was her 1st litter she was in whelp 14 hours i slept in our lounge with her 1st nite and then left her to it and she was fantastic despite wht evry 1 told me i was told she would not feed them all she did imho it all depends on ur bitch u know her so u will know whats best i would say spend 1st night with them and go with ur instincts after tht

Or read the whole thread here

I don't know what breed you have but I noticed you say she is 4 this year and she's had a litter a year ago, so she was 2 or younger when she was mated? 

I'm not sure why people are continuing to question the OP when she has stated she will not be mating her bitch a second time ;-) A good note to end this thread on surely?