Ok I spoke to someone from Purina the other day who said that with all dry foods you have to feed exactly what the packaging says with regards to food to weight of dog ratio otherwise it will result in the excess being excreeted as loose stools and lots of them....

Is this true in your experience?

I never weigh my dogs dry food. They eat very slowly aren't greedy and don't gulp their food down which I'm greatful for but being Huskies and Mal's they have rather dicky tummies and I often get nice Mr Whippy style poop's to scoop up lol.

I have weighed out what i'm meant to feed mine and it looks like such a tiny amount...yeah it may have all the calories they need etc but they aren't going to be satisfied at all and will mouch round (even more) for food and counter surf (even more if that's possible lol) Oh I will also add my dog's are perfect weight, nice lean and well muscled.

Opinions anyone?

We do weigh all of our dogs food, dependant on each individual dog and what their needs are and or jobs they do, however its not by the manufactures guidlines its done on what the dog needs.

When I'm feeding dry I do weigh the portions.  When I guestimate I can be adrift by up to 20g per portion which makes a noticable difference to my boys weight over a few days.

I should add that I don't feed what is suggested on the side of the pack.  It's too much for one dog, and too little for the other.  Over time I've worked out exactly what they need to maintain a good weight (and good output!!).  I adjust portions as necessary if they are doing more exercise or if the weather is warm but even then I still weigh it to make sure I know what's going in.

I use small chinese takeaway boxes as dog food boxes and keep a set of digital scales in their food room.  A few other upsides are that I know when to order more food, can work out how much each dog costs to feed (may not actually need that one!!), and can take accurate amounts of food when we travel.

The problem with manufacturers guidelines is that they have to cater to a mass audience with dogs that vary enormously.  The guidelines are a good place to start when you have your first dog but you soon work out how to adjust portions to suit.  The Arden Grange team are pretty good at giving realistic advice I've found. 

All pretty interesting stuff. Well I don't go by the package at all as I said but I know how much roughly I feed them everyday and as I say they are slithe and do not put on weight easily...and on top of that they get ran in harness once a week or more if it's not too warm (in the summer) or wet (in the winter)

Main question relates more the the squidgy poo's...do you find if you were to feed more that they'd have loose stools?

I find it hard to believe that they would excreet excess food as the whole point of the digestive system is to extract all the goodness (less undigestable things or materials the dog's don't agree with cereals wheat etc). Surely, over feeding (in comparison to the package feeding suggestions) would just lead to a dog putting on the excess as weight??

I use a mug as a measurement. Originally I weighed how much fitted into a mug and started off with the recommended amount on the package. But over the years, I have just adjusted as necessary, and still do as and when I need to. But I always use a mug to scoop out their food so I know how much they eat.

If your dogs have frequently runny/soft poo, I would go and look for another food that suits your dogs better.

Vera

>you have to feed exactly what the packaging says with regards to food to weight of dog ratio otherwise it will result in the excess being excreeted as loose stools and lots of them....

What rubbish!

Like humans each dog has a dfferent metabolisum so where some could eat and eat and eat and not put on an ouce of weight, some need more and some need less!  Also dependet on other factors such as exercise etc.

I never weigh my dogs foods anymore.  One boy has to eat twice as much as reccommended but his like that on ANY food and untill he was 6 he always had a tiny waist.

I go on looks and if they are looking chubby the food gets cut down, if they are looking skinny the food goes up according to the cup size.  Just before girls are due in season we up the male dogs food to counteract the fact he won't eat much at all during the season and what he does it will most likely be tinned food.  After a bitch has had her season the food goes down for them to get the weight off they gainned while lack of exercise and also so not to encourage a phantom.  Everythings done on how they look physically and how their eye's sparkle and coat shines.

Having spoken to other food manufacturers they also will tell you the guide is a guidline but each dog is different.  Someone at Purina needs to be put straight.

Yeah I couldn't be bothered arguing yanno....that's what I thought too as it goes against the actual purpose of eating and especially dogs who by instinct will eat when they are fed.

I have always fed what my dogs will eat without putting on weight, I know how much it is to look at (use scoop etc) but wouldn't have a clue what it weigh's and i'm pretty sure it's at least 40% more than what the packaging says (but they get more again when they are more active)...and in fairness they could probably all do with putting on a kilo or 2 but that would be a struggle.

And with regards to runny poo....this is unfortunately part and parcel of sibes and mals it's just about minimising it so changing their food won't necessarily help as I've tried them on several brands (ironically enough the most expensive ones seem to be the worst for loose stools and stinking rear ends lol)

> Ok I spoke to someone from Purina the other day who said that with all dry foods you have to feed exactly what the packaging says with regards to food to weight of dog ratio otherwise it will result in the excess being excreeted as loose stools and lots of them....
>
> Is this true in your experience?

No, if I fed what the packet states I would have a very fat dog!! The packets usually make a point of saying it is only a GUIDELINE, they can not know the exact nutritional requirements for each individual dog, this will vary with age, metabolism and activity levels.

I feed my dog the qnty that suits him (ie, he's not too thin or too fat on that amount), I ensure I feed the same amount each meal by using a cup to measure out each feed, I wouldn't be this specific if maintaining his weight wans't as important (weight gain will do no good to his elbow displasia).

'Excess' should mean, more than your dog needs, not more than the pack states :)

ETA, just noticed icequeen has allready said all this!

When Eukanuba first started to sell in this country I put 2 litter sisters on it to trial it for future use.

One sister needed twice as much to keep her condition than the other.

So other than a guide - it's nonsense to feed entirely by a chart.
For nearly 20 years I've expressly stated on my puppy diet sheet - " Your puppy's condition is your best guide".

Burns nutritionist reckons my GSD should be on 370g............he is on 430 PLUS 150/200g of tin chappie a day, is 37kg Male 23mth old and Vet (dog person) says he is one of the few GSDs she sees that is not overweight.
Previous 2 GSD had about 1/4 to 1/3 less than suggested.
Chris

I always measure my dogs food.  I weigh out the food, knowing that of the premium brands at around 25/26% protein they require approximately 180 - 200g.  I weigh any new brand as they do vary the volume the same weight of food is based on the kibble size and density.

I find a handy container that takes a maintenance amount for my bred.

At the moment it is a Pot Noodle container and mine get up to the second bend, those needing a bit of a trim to the first and anyone needing a bit more to the top.

For years I used a tough Eukanuba cat measure that full took just the right amount, but soem nice canien persons chewed it beyond use..

If feeding meat or raw food I also weigh it.

I have never ever fed anywhere near the amount that the packaging says.

> Surely, over feeding (in comparison to the package feeding suggestions) would just lead to a dog putting on the excess as weight??

Certainly feeding excess food will lead to weight gain, but also in my experience leads to looseness, especially in puppies.  If they actually need the extra food then they need more meals a day, as their systems can't cope with the overload.

Intolerance to the protein source or cereal will of course cause looseness too.

yes I measure with a free measuring cup I got years ago but I dont feed the amount they suggest in fact it is near enough half that amount otherwise they are loose and put on weight.

Mine get the same amount daily,i use a microwave cup and know how much to give them,just by looking at it.

I never give them what it says on the bag, that would be far to much.
I have increased it on occations and regreted it dearly.

I've never fed what it says on the package,for some dogs it's too much and for others,too little.

>Main question relates more the the squidgy poo's...do you find if you were to feed more that they'd have loose >stools?

IME overfeeding often leads to loose poops.But it could also relate to the food not suiting the dog,if it's a common occurrence.
One thing that helped one of my dogs who had regular whippy type poops no matter what I fed,is probiotics,I give her a capsule a couple of times a week and her poops are now perfect.

>> And with regards to runny poo....this is unfortunately part and parcel of sibes and mals it's just about minimising it so changing their food won't necessarily help

I don't agree that loose stools are part and parcel of owning a Mal or a Sibe, all of ours have firm stools  (and they have been on a wide variety of food) and several others I know also have no problems with loose stools. If mine had consistently loose stools then I would certainly look to change their food as that would point to the fact the particular food might not suit them.

I personally don't go by what is written on the packaging, if I did then none of mine would be in perfect weight. One would be obese and the others underweight. Our 25Kg dog gets the same amount of food as our 41Kg dog, it all depends on their own individual metabolism and levels of exercise etc.

Ah lucky you! Most Husky and Mal owners I know have the same issue as I do and struggle to get solild poo's from their dogs. What do you feed your dog's on?

I'm sure the Mals I've walked with had what I consider normal poos.  I would be worried somethign was wrong with the breeds i they can't produce the ideal/normal poo.  soomething must be wrong with the diets.

But is this why it appears ALOT of Mal/Sibe owners prefer to feed raw?

I have never fed raw but it may very well be a reason why many do...perhaps other sibe and mal owners can contribute to this? what do you feed yours?

yes i do weigh dog food,
every time at every meal and my three are 6, 3 and 17months.
sad i know but better for them.

>>Most Husky and Mal owners I know have the same issue as I do and struggle to get solild poo's from their dogs. What do you feed your dog's on?

Are the people you know confined to a small geographical area? I would then start wondering if there was something in the water as it is not common for them to frequently have loose stools. With regards to what we feed ours on, we used to solely feed BARF until we moved 3 years ago and it became impractical in our new house. After we moved they were mostly fed on NatureDiet with some BARF but when our last pup came home we changed them to Royal Canin (as this is what he was weaned onto and the breeder preferred us to keep him on that) however fairly recently they changed it so that the main ingredient was now maize so I changed them onto JWB and NatureDiet. They have had different flavours (whatever I fancy at the time really) and although that makes up the bulk of their diet now they still get heart/liver/chicken wings/tripe etc fairly regularly.

>> I'm sure the Mals I've walked with had what I consider normal poos.  I would be worried somethign was wrong with the breeds i they can't produce the ideal/normal poo.  soomething must be wrong with the diets.

As a breed they do produce normal stools (unless unwell), I would be concerned if any dog couldn't form correct stools.

>> But is this why it appears ALOT of Mal/Sibe owners prefer to feed raw?

No - they feed BARF as they believe it to be a better diet :) There are some large advocates for BARF within the breeds but still the number who actually feed it seem to be smaller than those who don't. Yes the amount of stools produced on a BARF diet is less, as there is less waste product and depending on the amount of bone you feed the stools can be very hard (if not done correctly the dog can become constipated, hence why I wouldn't recommend the diet to those who have not read up on it first and in that case would recommend a good quality complete). Some argue you see better performance in dogs fed on BARF but I don't necessarily agree with that.

There is a long standing debate on BARF vs complete but I am of the opinion you feed whatever suits your dog. I know of several who have gone from complete to BARF and back again and although they may produce more stools on a complete diet, the consistency of them is still firm and 'normal'.

When I fed dried, I weighed once so I had a rough idea how much weighed what.... then fed what was needed to maintain the correct body condition. Feeding amounts vary on exercise level, metabolism, entire/neutered etc etc... and often the manufacturers seem to over-estimate what is needed for certain weights (couldn't be to do with selling more food could it, says the cynic in me). Now I'm feeding Naturediet it's different because it comes in packs... and for my dog's weight they say 3.1 packs... which isn't helpful!! So he gets 3 packs.. but he gets pigs ears/ bulls pizzles/ marrow bones/ sardines etc... so I reckon that counts as the other bit. Though have to say he is slightly thinner than I would like at the moment.... need to get a little weight on him, then he should maintain OK at that. :-)

> I have never fed raw but it may very well be a reason why many do...perhaps other sibe and mal owners can contribute to this? what do you feed yours?

Might be worth putting up a thread aimed at sibe/mal owners in the topic title, as many may miss this. I know there are a number of people on here with sibes/mals: HuskyGal, Melodysk, huskypup.... am sure HG feeds raw/BARF.

Yeah think I'll do that thanks :D

I measure my dogs food.  Cher gets 1/4 twice a day of Wellness Small Breed, it says to feed her a cup a day total.  If I even give her 1/3 a cup one meal a day, she gets really fat.  But her brother, gets a cup a day of food, and he is of good body.  So it does depend on the dog. 
The puppy food says for each dog I should be giving a cup a day to each one, but I dont.  They would be huge!!!  
The guidlines on the bags of food, I find, most of the time are nonsense.  Look at your dog, see what they look good at, and feed accordingly. 

Probiotics seem to be worth trying.....what are best? Id there any specific ingredients I should look for?

> Id there any specific ingredients I should look for?

Only if your dogs have an intolerance you know about (eg: egg/Dairy) General rule go for a product that contains as many strains as possible (Min 6) Live Bio yoghurts tend to have max 3. Many people report success with just Live Bio yogs I however only have 1 dog that this works for (everyone and every dogs internal flora and fauna being different!)

I can highly recomend the PROTEXIN product range If you scroll tto the bottom of the linked page the products I use are the PRO-SOLUBLE (for daily use) and the PRO-KOLIN ( For those very upset times like after antibiotics/ illness etc)

At present I'm very happy with Dorwest Herbs 'Tree barks powder' I use a few of their products can't praise the products and customer care advice enough.

Hope this helps :)

Thanks HuskyGal

I've used Dorwest before so shall speak to them and see what they suggest.

They will be at Three Counties Kelly if you show?? Pop over to the trade stand :) Pick it up a bit cheaper too.

Hey again,

No I don't show just run them in harness for fun (for them and me lol)

I use a measuring scoop but adjust the amount each dog gets according to their activity levels, appetite, stools and condition. Sibes tend to need less than recommended but they do need a good quality food. Ours do a lot better on a food containing probiotics so I'd recommend giving them a try.

If their stools aren't firm then they are possibly being fed too much or it could be from changing food too quickly. A lot of sibes have very sensitive stomachs so it doesn't take much to upset them. You also need to watch what treats you are giving.

You may also want to try a different protein source in case they have an intolerance to chicken. Lamb or fish might suit them better, however I'd avoid swapping and changing food too much.

Have they been wormed recently? It might also be worth treating them for giardia as that can cause the runs.

Yeah they are all wormed every 4 months.

I think I am going to go with HuskyGals suggestion of addding probitotics and see how that goes. I spoke to Ceri as CSJ (who is brilliant btw) and she is going to send me out some samples and recommended some of their herb mixes to aid digestion and said they have quite a few sibe and mal owners that swear by them

I never thought about the treats!! I am probably far too over generous with treats too so I think i'll cut them out for a week and see if that makes any difference too

thanks sweetiepie :)

We learnt very early on about treats as the MIL kept feeding our first pup biscuits and fairly soon he exploded on their cream carpet. Consequently we're real stingy with treats. I hardly every buy any as we usually have loads given as gifts at rallies. They only usually get them after they've run.

well i will cut them out for a couple weeks and see what effect that has!

thanks

It is important to know how much you are feeding, as has been said previously. Overfeeding is not only wasteful on food which might just cause loose motions or skin problems/behaviour problems, but it's also wasteful on your finances!

I think you should feed according to your dog's body condition, as the feeding guide on the bag is just a guideline and a starting point. If you want to know what your dog's body condition is then there's charts around such as the one at http://www.pet-food-choice.co.uk/overweight_dogs_and_cats.htm

If your dog has a skin or digestive problem then you probably need to be more careful

:¬)