I have a gorgeous ridgeback bitch aged 5 mths
Fabulous in every way, friendly, housetrained, well behaved, walks on loose lead, done foundation puppy with eyes shut. happy to meet new people and dogs.
BUT
she hates hates being trained for showing
I am doing softly softly, she entered a novelty show locally and won Best In Show and took two 1sts, so I figure she has the goods at least in a minor level,

she loved it on the day.
But I am struggling to get her to stack at all, the minute I touch her legs she tucks up her tail, humps her back, head goes down and she refuses food, even fresh meat.

The only thing I can think is that once about a month ago I accidentally knelt on her front paw?
Do I persist is little,often or leave it alone entirely?
i know she is happy in the ring as she is distracted by the hub bub enough I think.
Many thanks for reading
Jane

Hello Jane

I have a GR who when she was a pup and I was trying to train her for a nice stand in the ring went exactly the same as yours.  I realised that it was me being a little stern not on purpose but I was concentrating too much on getting it right and it worried her.  So I decided that we would just incorporate a stand in games and normal training where we would have lots of fun, we both relaxed and gradually I started positioning her feet, she hardly noticed.  During this time I always had a small toy in my hand, it was actually a small squeeky mouse, we played with it and I squeaked it at home and then at our first show took the squeaker out and it fitted into my hand when she looked a bit worried I just opened my hand and showed her the toy.  She now does a nice free stand rather than me stacking her and is quite happy to do it.
Good luck
Jan 

thanks for the reply
I have tried with her squeaky squirrel/fox/pheasant/rabbit/ball but the result is the same.
The dog trainer advised me to keep one lead for show training ie: as per would use in the ring and to be very generous with high reward treats all this time.
But she still ain't buying it.
The minute she sees the show lead she puts her head down now.
I guess I'm going to have to change that maybe?
She loves games so will try and do it using no lead and just casually perhaps.
Thanks for the info, am worried about her free stand/stack, she looks like she has had 7 whiskies :)

Hi Jane

At 5 months my Leo was exactly the same, he'd look really fed up, would back away when I tried to move his feet, once I achieved it would promptly put them back into ten-to-two position, and after about 10 seconds standing he'd just collapse into a big furry heap!  I found it hilarious, and just tried to make it as fun as possible.  When I was at home I'd sit on the floor with him and play with his feet and legs to get him used to it, I'd also get him to stand when I was boiling the kettle, all very informal, no lead.  At our first show I couldn't even get him to walk into the ring (he was having a little nap!), so the judge had to help him to his feet..............he went on to win his class!  He's now 10 months and still far from perfect but he's improved no end and is starting to really enjoy it.

I'd keep trying, as long as you keep it lighthearted and fun I'm sure she'll come round

Yup I would go without the show lead at the moment, random times round the house when playing, before feeding, when she watching you prepare dinner etc aswell as when out on walks, just say stand and treat.  Don't worry about leg placements yet, work on the command for standing up and treat it so stand really means on four paws and gettinga treat an or lots of praise :)

Gradually start then stroking the legs, not moving them, but just touching each one.  By this time if her constructions correct you won't have a problem with front legs she will walk into place with them and then it's just working on getting the back legs out far enough but time and patients will tell you when she is happy for a leg to be moved.

I start mine with baiting dispite being a top and tailed breed, they need to learn to stand still and nothing like a bit of food to encourage that. 

Never not had a dog that was unhappy with being stood and each of my dogs have been successful handling dog for myself and my brother which incorpartates us making sure they are stood perfectly within minamal time.  (5 seconds according to one person! )

oh she's fine with leg placements, stands like a frozen rock- if only she relaxed her body we'd be sorted
She holds a stand well
I tried today using a clicker which we discarded after week one of puppy training as she was so obedient.
Click = liver cake treat
So while boiling the kettle (thanks)
I had her stand , adjusted legs, clicked--- she relaxed came forward, head up, tail relaxed.
I think this approach on several odd one off occasions throughout the day and randomly on walks is the best way?

My kitchen stinks from making liver cake but by golly does she put more into it when it's on offer!
Really appreciate all responses, I'm an utter showing novice and don't want to let her down.

>if only she relaxed her body we'd be sorted

But if you don't place her legs she won't become frozen :)

But yes random times thouthout the day are best.

Good luck, it will all fall into place one day. But you won't need a perfectly stood dog untill out of puppy.  a lively puppy.  I had a couple of years ago a young pup get fed up in the dog challenge and throw himself on his back to everyone's ammusement.  Afew thanked me after because if a dog did that to me they wouldn't feel bad if one did it to them! Woops!

she freezes before I touch her legs to be honest- in grooming she also hates standing- as she is a pretty calm dog I guess standing is not in her nature maybe.
It's varied now as she has done beautifully well today after I put calmness and thought into it
I've been told she needs to stand quite well to stand a chance as ridgies are seriously competitive?
She is happy to be touched --- REALLY happy lol

She will need to stand quite well but after afew years you will notice a young puppy thats stands and moves perfectly in puppy will rarely do anything when they get into the top end classes of limit and open because they loose their sparkle from being bored.

Letting a puppy be a little lively (but still standing long enough for judge to look at and go over and move enough strides correctly to asses movement) will mean they enjoy it more and go on longer.  This is my experiance with setters and aussie shepherds, maybe it doesn't work with all breeds, and I've never worked hounds so don't know much about them.

The main key though is a relaxed handler, like you say your putting calmness into it. :)  Good luck!

thanks!
Calms not my strong point this week, husband away for 2 weeks and me with 3 kids and a complex hound to manage alone!!!
Will attempt to walk her later she doesn't mind the rain too much...

Thanks for all the help on this?
Oh a quick qu to other show peeps?
What dress code for handlers?

Dress code is something smart and presentable but also suitable for the venue and weather, that will compliment your dog.  I.e not the same colour as.

Champ shows are smarter then Open shows and at Champ shows you will find many people in suits but not all.  Open shows tend to be a little more casual but never scruffy :)

> I've been told she needs to stand quite well to stand a chance as ridgies are seriously competitive?
>

hi, ive been showing my ridgie for a year now, and i wouldnt say the people are seriously competitive, generally quite a friendly bunch! my aunt who has a gundog, often comes and stands with the ridgie people as she finds them a lot more friendly and approachable than people in her breed :)
if theres anything you want to ask just pm me!

I didn't mean the people I guess, more that the quality is high and puppies are well trained on entry to their first classes.
From what I've seen that seems to be the case anyhow!
Thanks for replies, today she has been so fearful she has been shaking so I have little option but to get a behaviourist in I think. I cannot for the life of me work out what has started this though, she has never from day one been happy to be encouraged to stand. I'm just going to leave well alone for now and let her be.
I am taking her to a novelty show this weekend and if she is ok on the day then I think we'll just stick to low level showing for total fun as the training is simply going to stress her out.
Thanks for replies everyone!

Can you not just free stand her for now so that she happily stands like many breeds do for a bit of bait.

You adjust her position and foot placement by moving your body and lead back and forward and to the side t encourage them to adopt a square stand.  If the pup is balanced this should not be that difficult.

Stacking isn't compulsory, even if customary in your breed. I bet it only became so because someone successful started it and others followed suit.

In the US my breed is stacked, but here it is frowned upon, so it is only fashion really..

Could it be that she is a bit hormonal and thinking about coming into season.  My girls always do funny things that are out of charachter a good month or so before they come in.

If she was a bit loopy in other ways I guess maybe but it is onnly in this one area
I talked to my puppy trainer and she said I need to get her a low level of the fear trigger ie: show lead/standing and treat treat treat at the low level, with no pressure or touching or words
Recondition the first response to the action
When she willingly in fact happily does this reaction free, move to the next level of trigger
For Z it will be the foot setting

She said try it today, the fear is just a sign, I need to get her to relearn and it takes much food and effort.
I am unlearning a behaviour rather than training her to get her to do something.

The more I do the quicker she will respond, but she did say Ridgies are famous grudge bearers

I also think she perceives me as a threat as I have a 2 yr old who requires a lot of loud verbal encouragement (think fishwife)
She said Z probably being a sensitive dog might find this hard to cope with.
Arrrghhh

How often are you trying to stand her? If you are trying to do it too often you could also be making a rod for your own back. She will get bored (I had one that was like that ;-) ) In the end I had to take her out of the ring. I now only try to stand them a couple of times a day, and only for a few seconds, especially if they are going through a phase of non co-operation. Youngsters have a lot on their minds and silly things can become huge problems if they think it is a problem. As already said somewhere, make it fun. :-)

How often? Well on a walk we stop maybe twice and I do it, very casually.
I change leads now after the casual stand if she handles that fine and pop the show lead on and do an up and down and stand and hold.
If she shows signs of fear at the show lead going on I treat and treat until she relaxes, then do the up and down (which she is fine with btw)
So less than 2 minutes of "work"
I do a couple of casual stands around the house too.
Lots of treating, if I'm on front of her she is fine but if I go to her side she tucks up
So therein lies the answer....
She walks again in the evening and I usually leave her to run off the lead or on long lead for total relaxation and enjoyment.
I also get her to stand for daily grooming - bizarrely she adores being brushed but prefers to lie down...
Thing is sometimes she is fine with standing and having legs fixed, other times she appears very shrinking.
Stepping up the treats has worked well though. Plus she has had very bad allergy/nettle rash, skin issues the last few weeks and this week has been on anti b's, anti histamine and a steroid jab plus fuciderm and camomile washes.
So think she is more comfortable
Certainly yesterday and today she is very waggy happy and confident even pushy, which means the skin might have been contributing to a lot of her feelings.
really appreciate the replies here, what a friendly helpful bunch you are!!
Jane

Well today I took her to the breed show in Leics. She enjoyed the social whirl, I had a fwe knowing people come up and ask about her and checked her out and said nice things :)

She was very happy to be stood once calmed and was very good on the day
I think I'll persevere and presume that at home she is a bag of old cabbage and at shows she turns on the power.
Cannot ask more than that really!