Hi all,

I've not posted here in months, maybe more - but we lost my dear dog last week from heart failure.  He was 12 and had an enlarged heart and after two weeks of being on 'pee pills' and the like, his little heart gave out and he died.  It seemed that he was not the alpha of our pack of two.  We have a Leonberger bitch who survives him and she has not been very happy since (obviously).  She is not eating well (mind you, she's always been a bit picky about her food and tends to play games around dinner time), and a few nights in the past week has been waking us up at 4am.  Last night (or morning i guess) she woke me again at 4am howling.  Now she has never howled before and our dog (indy) who passed last week was always the one to howl in the night sometimes.  She has never done this.
Is she howling because he's not there to howl, or is she howling becuase she misses him or do dogs not miss other dogs?  Iknow some people say that dogs only live in the moment, but there is no doubt about it this dog is missing indy. 
How can we make life easier for our remaining dog - we will probably get another dog at some point but i think its too soon right now.  I think its best not to go and see if she's ok at 4am when she makes a ruckus as it will only mean she expects us to come and see her every time she makes a song and dance at 4am!

Any advice would be great.
Thank you

Hi Barleymoon

firstly, sincere sympathy for your loss - no matter their age or state of health it's a devastating experience to lose them :(

As to your remaining girl, every dog is different.  Some that I've had which I was convinced would be devastated at the loss of their best buddy have seemed completely ambivalent whereas others that I'd have guessed to be more independent have shown obvious signs of stress.

I'd suggest changing your routine a little - nothing too drastic as this may only make things worse - but perhaps increase positive times such as play, exercise, cuddles on the sofa and maybe stay up a little later and rise earlier for a week or two.   IME those affected by loss do seem to come around within a few weeks but may need a helping hand by way of increased interaction with the family.  It may be that as well as your lad howling during the night he had the occasional game with her which she is missing out on too.

My dogs sleep in my bedroom which TBH I think helps significantly but this may not be a route which you can realistically take.

I hope your girl is back to her usual self soon and that your memories of your precious boy are happy ones.
{{{hugs}}} to you both.

Teri  

I'm so sorry. :( One of my bitches lost her puppies last week and she was much the same. I found that extra walks helped a lot, keeping her occupied, and she wanted to be close to me all the time, so she slept in my bed. Gradually she started to get back to normal again, she's not there yet but much better than she was.

I am really sorry for the loss of your boy :(

Thanks all for your thoughts - My Indy was a special chap.  Half aussie cattle dog and half border collie.  It turns out he probably had an enlarged heart for a really long time but it wasn't spotted.  Still, of his 12yrs, only 2 weeks of that were him sickly, so pretty good going really!  He was a really clever dog and very interactive so he is much missed. 

We don't do dogs in beds here (i live with my parents at the moment), so thats not really an option, plus we don't want Boo getting into the habit of having to stay in our rooms upstairs!! She is after all, a very very large dog!! She'd need a bed of her own! She already has most of the 3 seat sofa in the kitchen!

I think because she's always been with another dog too - she's finding it hard to be the only canine i expect.  I don't know how long we should wait to consider getting her a chum, because I'm a great believer in dogs not being on their own and that ideally they should have furry friends.  We are thinking of rescuing some cats, but i'm concerned about my parents idea to do that (we've had cats before which Boo (the one whos' left) wanted to chase), as it could seem to the dog that she's not getting as much attention as them.  I think it would be better to rescue a doggy friend in a month or two.

I'm sorry to hear about your pups - how did that happen?

Your lovely boy,who has died is letting you know,through your leonberger,that he is still there.If you go to see your girl when the howling starts,and tickle her round her head you are doing the same to the boy.It will soon settle when the boy has got his message across to you.He comes to see your girl,and she is concentrating on him at the moment,it's just that you can't see him.There's absolutely nothing to worry about,your boy loves you and wants a tickle.

I think its best not to go and see if she's ok at 4am when she makes a ruckus as it will only mean she expects us to come and see her every time she makes a song and dance at 4am!

Everyone's different but I'd tend to treat the dog as grieving and simply call out so she knows  you are there, and yes indeed under these circumstances I'd also go down for a few moments if they didn't stop. I'd also consider sleeping downstairs for a bit until she gets more used to being on her own. She may be simply missing another dog presence near her at night and so need some reassurance at that time :)

i think she needs you at her time of grieving invite her to bed. My boy was at the vets for 2 days and my girl was very sad she missed him and moped and wouldnt eat. Dogs do grieve and its very much similar to they way we do and at these times we want to be around our families. Sorry for your loss. I have an ACD of 9 years.

Louise

Hi Barleymoon
I'm sorry for your loss, not much consolation but at least he had a lovely life with you!  My GSD bitch went through the same when I lost my St Bernard dog.  She started howling in the middle of the night (never howled in her life prior to this), it was the most haunting sound and used to make me cry!  She also went right of her food (but like your Leo had always been fussy though).  I bought lots of DAP diffusers, and gave her extra attention.  It took a few weeks but she did settle down, and is now happy bossing our 10 mth Leo round!!
Keep us posted on how things go

Hi Barleymoon, I just wanted to say how sorry I am for your sad loss.  There is a rescue remedy you can give to dogs it's a little like the one for humans and you should be able to get it from a the internet or a local Holland and Barratt, I've just found this one on google: http://www.doc-nature.co.uk/foranimals/index.php it might help your girl.

You may also find that homeopathic Ignatia helps in the grieving process.

so sorry for your loss.

Sorry to hear about Indy. It sounds as if he had a good long life but you are all bound to miss him.

I expect Boo will settle down soon but if she was mine I would sleep downstairs for a few nights just until she gets used to being the only dog.

Getting another dog soon sounds like a good plan. Perhaps the breed rescue of your favourite breed would be a good place to start?

Good luck, especially for the next few nights.

> your boy loves you and wants a tickle

You always use such caring and reassuring words ;-)

Yes,soft words are lovely,they go with a tickle,always.

sorry to hear of your loss and it is something I dread in the future. 

Amongst many reasons one reason for my getting a third dog was so that I was unlikely to have a dog left on its if one passed away.  I feel happier to know that they will have another doggie friend to help them through it. 

I,m so sorry for your loss.When my Bella was 7 our beloved Penny died and Bella started howling in the night .We let it go on for a week then decided to take her up to bed with us.She was more settled but I dont think she ever got over losing my other dog.She was depressed for a long time.After 3 years I was ready for a new puppy and I thought Bella would be happy again but she has never bothered with any of my other dogs.She is now 17 1/2 and just spends most of the day on her own so I always make sure to give her lots of hugs and kisses before bedtime.

I'm very sorry to hear you lost your dear dog.  I hope my suggestion does not seem too maudlin but, did your Leo get to say goodbye?  Was she able to view the body?  When we buried our beloved Lab girl nearly two years ago I took each of the cats out to sniff her body and be aware she was not coming back.  When that has not always been possible I too have observed what seems to be grief, and at the very least searching for the missing family member.  I have read it can be extremely upsetting to young children as well if they are banned from the funeral and then cannot understand why Grandpa is gone.  For your pets, a suggestion I have since heard, if your pet was unable to witness the burial of the deceased pet, is to have a burial with items associated with the missing pet.  Their blanket, favourite toy, collar etc, if you still have them.  I don't know anyone who has done this but it seems to make sense, somehow, and might help?  Just an idea.

I sympathise totally - it's an awful thing to lose a much loved member of your family.  Just as you need time to grieve, so does your other dog.  Dogs, like people respond to loss in a variety of ways and it depends how much reliance/interaction between the souls as to the depth of the loss.  The greater the interaction the greater the loss.  I suggest, alonside giving exercise and mental stimulation as already suggested, you let your dog grieve.  just like you not wanting to get another dog straight away so you can grieve, let your dog do the same.  You can't replace your lost dog in personality. Only get another when you're all ready to move on - after accepting your loss and ready to receive another, completely different, animal into your hearts and lives.
Another thing to watch for is seeing behaviours in your remaining dog similar to that of your departed.  Enjoy your girl for who she is and don't let her try to take the part of your departed dog - it's not fair to you or her.  Also, dogs pick up on our emotions so quickly, they can become really upset by the 'vibes' we give off un-knowingly, try to let your girl move on.
Hope I don't sound too harsh, but I know from experience how my own emotions effect my dogs.  Try to give as much normalcy as possible, treat grief as a normal part of life for both yourself and your dog, and look forward to your future together.

Thanks for all your responses - sweet idea that its indy trying to get in touch, but i'm an atheist, or near enough - so I don't believe in that sort of thing.  Indy is gone, and he was great and will be remembered with much love.  Boo is not howling as much now - but what did happen is that when my mum went on holiday (i'm house sitting for them) she started barking ALL night.  She has a very strong attachment to my mum (she is hardly ever out of the house and then in the past when she did leave the house indy was there to keep boo company).  SO, I think the real problem is that she is mostly missing company in general and is not happy being left alone downstairs.

However, she is not going to be allowed upstairs - its just not an option for us (and when allowed up last week ended up bouncing on my parents bed with them in it - 5 stone big floppy dogchild, not good LOL).  I don't want to start a habit which will not be one we want to continue.

Also my worry - when trying to wait to see if she'd stop barking at first, i went down to let her out and have a run about, and she came back and was fine again till about 5am (she'd started at 3) and then didn't stop till morning, even when i let her have the option of being in or out. 
I don't beleive in rewarding unwanted behaviours - and well, if i go and pet her every time she makes a ruckus in the night, then i'll be doing it every night whenever she demands my attention!? Surely there is another way of helping her settle down?

We will definitely be rescuing a dog - i don't think we've got enough space for another leo, they are just so huge and kind of take over.  I think ti would be better to have a smaller one! But it seems obvious that dear boo is not a happy camper as a lone dog.  LUCKILY i've borrowed my sisters jack russell, muddle and she's not woofed at night with her here! But my sister is sayign she doesn't want to lend muddle to us for two weeks!! haha... i said please please let us have her because I want to be able to sleep at night or i'll not get any work done in the day!

How has everyone else dealt with a dog with separation anxiety?

I just want you to know Barleymoon,that there is no need for you to believe anything.In fact Aetheism would leave you more open minded to other ways of existence,probably.There is no religion involved,at all.Just a natural progression,that's all.

Hi poppity - yes i'm very open to other ideas of existence, but through proof via science...  I think maybe you're referring to agnosticism where there is a general belief that there IS something out there which is 'godlike' or an all encompassing power, where'as atheism is 'lack of belief' in something that is not visible/provable etc.
Boo is FINALLY getting over the fact her mum isn't here and calming down and not doing so much woofing at night (relief for me!). and met her new friend to be last evening and got on well (a Jack spaniel bitch - accidental pup from a farm locally who is going to be called Beetle).  So its going well.  Seems strange still without my old friend Indy though.  He was a great little dog - well, not little, but little compared to boo!

Its a lovely forum here and i'm touched at how many of you are so thoughtful with the loss of a dog, its great and thank you.
xx

Welcome to Beetle.Think of all the fun to come,isn;t it great!I did mean Atheism.In the way that believing in something,or not believing in anything ,doesn't affect the way things work.Some things just are.