Hi, anyone out have any info on the 1st & 2nd generation of ????poodle crosses.  I am doing some research on this subject and had heard snippets from doggie folk on the best way to do to continue to get the same type again and again. Although I do wonder at the latest designer dog thing that is going on in this country right now, I do see a large number of these crosses coming into our training club and gasp at the prices some pay for the priviledge!
It is something that interests me and would appreciate any comments. 

I did joke to my husband earlier and say 'I wonder if there is such a thing as a shepherdoodle' after I found another gsd hair in the bread bin! lol

Don't kow what you are after really?  Just lookig at the BVA hipscores of the few Labradoodles that have been done isn't exactly good reading.

are you talking about F1, F1b..., F2

i had the idea that designer dogs are disapearing. they are just glamourised crossbreeds not that there is any thing wrong with crossbreeds i have two.

only breed if you know they are going to sell!!

NOT BREEDING!!!!! just research, its a subject I dont fully understand so wanted info.

Basically, just wondered what most 'breeders' do to maintain the same type from the original litter ie. Pedigree sire Poodle x pedigree dam Lab for example. What would the next mating consist of?

As to the disappearing of them, I see new x's each month at our club - there seem to be plenty around.  I suppose whilst there is a demand for them people will continue to breed them.  One lady paid £1200.00 for her labradoodle! Madness.

Maybe I havent explained myself well, I have tried to explain in another thread. 

> Basically, just wondered what most 'breeders' do to maintain the same type from the original litter ie. Pedigree sire Poodle x pedigree dam Lab for example. What would the next mating consist of?
>

well the problem is there is no 'type'. any cross will breed a mix of puppies, a type only exists from a breed. since the producers (i won't say breeders because that means something else to me) are not aiming for any particular trait then then a second generation mating will not be particularly calculated.

my current breed is bullmastiffs who were a breed designed from breeding bulldogs and mastiffs for a specific purpose, namely poacher tracking and catching. the breeders chose features that they considered desirable and aimed to reproduce them in the litters they bred of mastiff and bulldog. from those litters they picked the pups with desirable traits and then because they were to small bred them back to a mastiff to create a larger dog with some bulldog traits. they then fiddled around a bit more till they got an approximate 60% 40% split. the whole aim was to get certain traits that were set out (albeit probably modified) in the begining and carefully aiming for them. this was not done in the 'designer' crosses so can't really be built upon

> 'I wonder if there is such a thing as a shepherdoodle'

my neightbour has just bought a german shepadoodle, £350. :(

There is a breeder who breeds everything with poodles, they sell from £350- £700, starting with the jack Russel's to German Shepherd's, Golden's, Labs, even mating a Rottie to a poodle!!! :-(

There is a most ridiculous American website which I won't link to, which includes as breeds all sorts of bizarre crosses, with pictures. :-(

The way that pups are bred in family homes is a relatively new phenomena.  New breeds were established in the past (50+ years ago) by people with land and money.  They would always have a purpose in mind for the new breed and had the space, staff and facilities to run on 3 or 4 whole litters to see how they would mature as adults.  They would then be selective and mate the next generation of similar types together for many generations, not going back to the original cross unless they came across a problem, until the pups bred true to type, a very expensive and time consuming project carried out by people who understood genetics from breeding stock, if not in a scientific way.

That's not what I see happening with Labradoodles today.  It would appear to be each breeder is keeping one or possibly two from each litter (if they're not just producing them to sell for financial gain) and encouraging the new puppy owners to join the club and do the same.  Because of this there is no type at all.  Some are big, small, heavy, light, lab coat, poodle coat and many just inbetween and the new puppy don't have a clue to what they are buying. 
The biggest sadness to me is that they are sold as suitable as for those with allergies!  When the new owners find that this is not to be the case, the breeders aren't responsible enough to take them back and they end up in general rescue.  We've had 4 Labradoodle pups in my local rescue in the past 12 months, all under 6 months old when the owners realise that they can't live with them and they all looked very different!

"The biggest sadness to me is that they are sold as suitable as for those with allergies!  When the new owners find that this is not to be the case, the breeders aren't responsible enough to take them back and they end up in general rescue. "

To true WestCoast, my brothers mother-in-law payed £800 for her multi-generation registered Labradoodle, the breeder told her they wont shed, they will look like there parents (beard, eyebrows etc) and that they are easy to train, i told her they are not a reconised breed, as they thought they must be KC reg now but it turns out that the breeders have started there own labradoodle club and they register them with there club, and that if they have the lad coat they will shed a lot, and that both breeds can be hyper and that smart dogs are not nessercary easyer to train, but they didnt listen to be. The breeder even told them that labradoodle pups can be sold at 6 weeks (even though they are a licenced breeder and its illegal for licenced breeders to sell pups under 8 weeks unless to a petshop under the breeding and sales of dogs act), that should of given them a clue but not. there dog gure to look like a porly bred skinny ans lanky lab, it was very hyper, she couldnt train it and culdnt even walk it even after seing a trainer for a few months(allthough 10mins with me i had it walking on a lose lead next to me). She phoned the breeder to say she couldnt cope with it any more and that it didnt turn out like they said it would and asked them to take it back and they said no, so she gave it to the trainer to rehome. It was a shame as he was a nice dog just a bit OTT.

To answer the origanl question.
I phoned up a labradoodle breeder last week, not to buy just curious, and aperantly she doesnt know why they arnt regestered by the KC and she thinks its just the coat that is confusing the KC as u get the lab coat, saggy coat and the tight curl coat (in her words) she says what she is doing is breeding labradoodles back to pure poobles to get the tight curl coat as thats what they are ment to have not the other two types and then she breeds the curled ones to other curled ones.
She sounded desperat to sell me one so i said i wanted a show dog to make it clear i didnt want one but she turned around and said i could show it as they now have special labradodle shows, so i said i want to show at crufts to which she said i could! she conveintly forgot to mention only in the other events like agility not the actural show. A friend of a friend got caught out like that, he wanted a dog to show and to get to crufts and he was sold a labradoddle!

I hope you read my original post refering to whether you can get a shepherdoodle as a joke! It was meant that way.  Happy with me pedigree GSD's. :-)

I have seen 3 or 4 lab/poodles) come to our club in the last 12 months, every one totally bonkers! Suprised me how big they get aswell - I know of one that lives around the corner to me, she is super, laid back and the owner assures me she does not shed.

Thanks for all your replies everyone.

Barkingmad

> I hope you read my original post refering to whether you can get a shepherdoodle as a joke!

lol, yeah i knew you were joking, was just letting you know there is such a thing sadly. have pedigree gsds myself, cant see why crossing with a poodle particularly improves either?

A true F1 is where the offspring is mated back to one of the pure parent strains, not where they are crossed within themselves, ie
Pure Poodle x Pure Lab
Offspring of above to pure poodle or pure lab to produce F1
Offspring of F1 to pure poodle or pure lab to produce F2 and so on
and to be designated f1 f2 etc in the defined sense each of the F1 F2 crosses would be to one breed of purebred parent not F1 to Pure lab, F2 to pure poodle etc so effectively you would be breeding the lines back to the original !

Working in a lab means I had it drummed into me and have to drum it into others all the time
Sorry rant over - really gets me as it does when people ask what species of dog I own, when they mean what breed.
Angela LOL

From what I've read on the labradoodle forums a lab x poodle is an F1. Two F1s bred together produce F2s. Any F2 (or whatever number) bred with a poodle makes F2bs. I have no idea how accurate that is but the people there seem to agree on it.

Back to the orginal question, the way they breed mostly consistent type (because not very consistent) is to cross the crossbreeds back to poodles. In other words people are paying a lot of money for a dog that is mostly poodle but way back in the pedigree there was a labrador.

That's how they get a poodley coat and might not shed, which is what the buyers want.

I think the latest designer "breeds" are anything crossed with a poodle so it can have the cute d/oodle name. There's other non poodle crosses too, but the main requirement is that the two breed names can be stuck together to make something funny.

F1 and F2 -Fl is the first filial generation, and F2 is the second filial generation (i.e., the offspring of F1)

Filial means having the relationship of offspring.

Technically to cross an F1 with one of the parent type will give rise to another F1, crossing 2 F1s will result in a true F2.

When setting out to produce a "new"breed of dog it is necessary to breed many unrelated F1 generations from the original breeds & the breed the F1 generations together that have the traits you wish to "breed"into the new breed & then breed from the F2 generation in the same way, to keep introducing one side of the original cross is not developing a new breed, eventually the new breed will be phenotpye & genotype almost identical to the breed that as been crossed back to the most times