>Ive soaked the kibble and it swells up to around 4 times its size, one scoop fills the entire dish.

Thats really scarey.  Euknanuba puppy start that we are starting to use swells only a small amount and most of that because alot of watter was added to make a sloshy puppies first meals!

I'm now intrested in how much different foods swell...Of course all dry foods will but 4X is scarey stuff.

> Does anyone else have trouble getting thier doggies to drink when out...My lot will turn thier noses up at any water offered while out and about unless it is from a river or pond.

Ditto! :-(

> I'm now intrested in how much different foods swell...

Was Nutro I used to soak, and it went about double.

Ill take a pic for you to show you the size difference, but im thinking about conducting an experiement for different brands of dog bikkys a before and after next to a ruler to show how much its swollen. Any one else who wants to don their lab coats? the more the merrier.

> Any one else who wants to don their lab coats?

I'll join you. I use Beta adult, I'll measure a peice of kibble & take a photo of it next to a rular, leave it in a glass of water overnight & measure again.

It would be interesting to see the results if lots of people join in with different brands.

I used boiling water to soak it and leave it for aslong as it takes to go soft throughout. Leaving it in a glass over night would probably do the same.

I should have bought beta as its tried and tested, but i thought id give it ago!

I feed Burns,pork & spud, just had a look and got chudleys classic, Autarky chicken and skinners lamb, 'offer' bags from crufts so I will try and do them.
Chris

> conducting an experiement for different brands

Well the Nutro doubled from memory - and I still have a little James WB here, so can test that one too. Personally I do feel that dried food increases the risk of bloat - depends whether I can find an article to back me up. ;-)

http://www.iwclubofamerica.org/Health/bloat_torsion.pdf

http://www.neapolitan.org/cms/id/new-purdue-bloat-study/

http://www.vet.purdue.edu/epi/bloat.htm

[img][URL=http://img8.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p0806091337.jpg][IMG]http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/2547/p0806091337.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/img]

Wagg original Beef & Veg variety

PS thats a penny on the bottom to show the size, couldnt find my ruler.

Louise, I'm so sorry to hear about Mason.  It's something I'm really paranoid about, and I can imagine what an awful time you've had.

I recently read an article on the Leo Club site about bloat (it's not breed specific so assume it can be found elsewhere too).  It's about a survey carried out by the AKC and some of their results were surprising. Apparently using a raised feeding bowl increases the risk by 110%, and soaking dry food (which contains citric acid) prior to feeding also increases risk.  I don't know how reliable this is but it put me in a bit of a quandry as these were 2 things I've always done with my giant breeds.  It also mentions connections with family history, chest depth/width ratios, temperament of dog etc etc.  Having spoken to a lot of people about bloat I don't think there's any hard or fast rules, but it's definitely worth a read if you're interested.

I have read studies for using and not using stands increases risk.  Problem with statistic is you can make them mean what you want to mean. As you say there is no hard fast rule and it's something that can "just happen"

We have him back!!!

Hes got a scar from his willy upto his ribs (i double checked just to make sure he still had testicles) Hes got a snotty nose from the fluid still in his lungs and whatever they made him eat at the vets has made his eyes goopy. Im spoiling him like mad now and he got some scone and pork chop fat. Hes quite tired and by the looks of his movement the scars tight, were back on wed and then in 10 days for his stitches to be removed.

He was very happy to see me and jumped up the silly boy, they said he had a mastiff for company with addisons disease (not quite sure what that is)

If he could speak i think he would say ''thank goodness im home, all these other doggies were woof woofing and i couldnt get any sleep and the food was carp, i missed you lots mummy love you now gimme some foooods''

Glad he's home with you, healing thoughts heading his way for a speedy recovery!

> Problem with statistic is you can make them mean what you want to mean. As you say there is no hard fast rule and it's something that can "just happen"

That's the big thing with bloat isn't it, there is no common denominator and the statistics can be taken out of context. Eg. the majority of dogs fed from raised feeders are going to be those in the risk catagory anyway, so the chances are, there will be more of them that get bloat due to breed/body shape than dogs not fed from raised bowls, so there is no way of knowing if the raised feeders have any effect & vice-versa. (If you get what I mean?)

There are people that do everything that we are led to beleive increases the risk of bloat, yet thier dogs never get it & the same goes the other way around :( All we can do is do what we feel is the best thing (because we have to live with our actions should anything ever happen) and be as vigilant as Louise was, so if the worst does happen we stand the best chance to catch it in time.

> We have him back!!!

Brilliant :-D

So pleased he is home ok, now you have the fun of keeping from leaping about :-)

SOAKED FOOD
Burns,pork & spud, just had a look and got chudleys classic, Autarky chicken and skinners lamb, 'offer' bags from crufts so I will try and do them.

I have done a pic but not on photobucket or anything else, could anyone help - ie me send you the pic for you to do a link please.
Chris

Thats great news Louise!

He will be bouncing round in no time....Being so vigilant saved his life :)

So glad he is home, reckon there is lots of spoiling to be done.

> We have him back!!!

I'm so pleased you've got him back safe and sound. Hope he makes a speedy recovery now.

So pleased for you that you have him back.  Thank goodness that you're vigilant and things have turned out ok (as ok as they can be)

I'm going to soak some of my food now, and see the difference.  You've got us all at it now!

Best wishes for a speedy recovery, and for you too, you must be exhausted with the worry.

> and the statistics can be taken out of context

I know there was a problem with one study, that the controls were Jack Russells or similar, which had a much lower risk of bloat than the larger breeds anyway.

I have had a vet tell me that he had seen one particular line of Irish Setters all seeming to get it - but whether that was environmental or genetic, as they all belonged to the same person I think, so would have had the same environmental factors too, it's difficult to know. But there are so many variables for this sort of thing it is difficult for them to do proper controlled studies. Dogs do seem to get it more in kennels - which would back up stress as being a risk factor.

It is always something I am particularly aware of... GSPs are prone to it, as are Flatties - obviously, as bigger deeper chested breeds...

>>We have him back!!!

You must be so relieved.

My Rotties are fed on Arden Grange Large Breed Chicken and Rice, so soaked a piece of kibble in boiling water for 30 mins to add the results to the experiment:

Original size 1 inch, size after soaking 1.2 inch, so an increase in size of 20%. I didn't think that was too bad, the kibble doesn't feel dry, almost greasy (rather than moist), so I'm not surprised there wasn't that much increase in size.

[URL=http://img8.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kibble.jpg][IMG]http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/7406/kibble.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL tatty-eads biscuits.

So glad things are on mend, it must of been awful! Having two giant breeds I am always paranoid about this.I have always soaked their food, raised dishes, and never excercised for at least an hour after food.(and cross my fingers).
Take care

Normal adult JWB went from 1.5cm to 2cm after soaking all day - so that's 33%.

How's Mason doing now?

I finally managed to up-load my experiment pics! Here are the results. It's Beta Adult Chicken, there are 2 different sized kibble in this food, so I tested both, I put them in a glass of hot water and took them out when they were soft all the way through (tested with a needle!), I couldn't leave them in the glass anylonger as they were ready to fall apart. The large peice of kibble started at 1 inch and ended up at 1.5 inch. LOL, the cat stole & ate the small peice of kibble just after I took the photo!

Hi

He is not too bad, hes on metacam and antib's his appitite isnt back yet, so hes looking abit skinny, overall like a rescue case!!! He is definately feeling better in himself as he was after a walkies yesterday. Were back at the vets this evening for a check up, but i think he will be fine. I think your beta results are ok, the biscuits i used to feed them. I counted the stitches and he has 17! poor boy.

Louise